Teaching to walk on the leash w/out pulling?

AllieMackie · Apr 27, 2011

I was like this too. I finally decided on what wound up working best for both of us on walks - he can wander and explore as long as he keeps a loose leash and doesn't dart in front of me (he can be ahead, behind, sniffing, exploring, as long as loose leash is kept) and then we worked on a heel command for when I WANT him close to my side.

For us, it's worked wonderfully. I want him to sniff and explore and thoroughly enjoy our walking adventures, but at the same time having the security of a full heel isn't out of the question, as I've trained that separately, with a release reward.

Dekka · Apr 28, 2011

Southpaw said:

I am with Allie. When I walk my dogs I let them snif etc. I don't care if they watch me. Actually the walk is mostly for them, I don't want them watching me. As long as they aren't ignoring me (ie pulling on leash, cutting across me or hanging behind me (my criteria) I don't care where they look.

Now if I want Dekka's full attention I just put my left hand on my left hip and I have it.

Not saying having a compulsive watcher is bad, just saying it all depends on why you are doing the walk. Bounce is a natural compulsive watcher, and even off leash she walks right beside or behind me on a walk... it irritates me, I am always thinking why did I bring you if you aren't going to enjoy the sights and smells?

oakash · Apr 28, 2011

Loose leash walking isn't that big of a deal with me. I actually like it when there is a little tension in the leash. Suzie doesn't pull badly at all anymore, because I did work on it, but I kept on changing where I wanted her and how much pulling I thought was okay. I still can hold onto the leash with one finger because its not really pulling per se, more like a little tension.

She will occasionally lunge for a scent, but that has been decreasing.

I'm a real help eh? Well, everyone else already gave awesome advice so its good.

Maxy24 · Apr 28, 2011

Tucker will barely ever pull on a harness. First we used the no pull harness, but he's generalized it to all harnesses for the most part. I really like the no pull harness for him, it gives me a lot of control and if I back up the harness turns his body and makes him walk towards me. Plus if he starts having zoomies during our walk the harness keeps him from hurting himself or hitting the end of the leash very hard, it spins him right around to face me.
On a collar it's a different story, he has no qualms about pulling on a collar, especially if he is trying to follow some smell into somebody's yard. However if I stop and back up 4-5 times he'll control himself for a while.

However, Tucker is very harness sensitive, it's strange. If I stop and he hits the end, he'll swing his head around and give me a "WTH are you stopping me for" look. Even if we're walking along and the leash goes taught just for a second, his head starts to give a little swing around to tell me I've irritated him. But then he remembers he has the power to stop hitting the end of the leash all by himself.

Doberluv · Apr 28, 2011

Jose` is a big sniffer and stopper/marker. He stops constantly, which is fine. Like Dekka, I feel these walks are for the dogs. But Chulita would just as soon like to keep walking, so I have to be fair to both. I tell Chuli she has to wait for Jose` to check this out or that out and she usually just stands there waiting. She sniffs at things a little too, but not as compulsively as Jose`. Then I tell Jose`' "okay...let's go. Chuli wants to keep going." LOL. So, there's a little compromise going on all the time. If he pulls hard, the movement stops until he gives me a little slack but sometimes he has to pull a little bit to go over to the thing he wants to check out so I have to let him or I wouldn't know that he wanted to go way over "there." They have learned not to dart across the front of me a long time ago, because if I didn't watch where I was going, they'd get punted. (woops) So, while the walk is for them, there has to be a happy medium. Lately, these walks, (only on leash walks) are quite slow (stop, go, stop, go) and I, needing more exercise wind up going for another walk all by myself so I can really move. Unless we're going off leash, there's not much exercise in it for me.

Southpaw · Apr 28, 2011

Dekka said:

I don't necessarily want her looking at me on our walks (as I said I reward her for looking around at other distractions as well) but it doesn't hurt having a dog that gives you the occasional glance. I don't think it creates a velcro dog either, if I let Juno off leash she still runs around like crazy BUT she keeps an eye out on me and is aware of where I am.

Depends on your dog, depends on what you want. I don't want my dog fixating on other dogs, because she is reactive. So if I have to drag her away from one, first of all she probably won't even notice the leash going slack.... second of all, I want to prevent a reaction. So I prefer getting her mind off the dog, and having her look at me. If she's pulling just for the sake of pulling, and not actually pulling toward something... then the moment I start walking backward, she's going to come "back to earth" anyway and look at me just out of thinking "where the heck are we going?" I'm not going to walk backward an entire block waiting for her to look at me but the point is I want some sort of sign that her attention is on the direction we're walking in NOW, not the direction we WERE walking.

It's all preference.

k9krazee · Apr 28, 2011

Jack won't look at me at all on a walk, unless I specifically ask him to 'watch me'.

I've always used the 'walk in the opposite direction' method. I don't live with Jack or get to practice LLW very often, but it still works. In the beginning I would turn around and walk the opposite direction. Now if he starts to pull or get any tension on the leash I stop and he automatically comes back to my side. If I stop and he doesn't automatically come back to side I make him go around me. I also have a harness for him that we use for bike riding and roller blading and he knows he can pull all he wants with it on.

milos_mommy · Apr 28, 2011

I just wanted to say I used to simply stop working - which worked for my JRT and a few others I trained - but then I started working with pit bulls, lol. I imagine a husky is the same way, they think pulling is FUN. Even if you're just standing there and they're lunging at the end of the leash, it's FUN!

So I started changing directions, and it's worked pretty well. However, the second I let my current foster get away with pulling, she's like "whoa this worked once let me try it a million times!" so I don't EVER. let her pull.

Good luck!

smkie · Apr 28, 2011

We have sniffing places, and non sniffing places. When we are in the street by people's home, that's a No. When we get to the woods, or the vacant lots, they know they can sniff to their hearts content as long as they do not tug.

I just turn around every time the dog starts to lean into the leash. You get dizzy at first, but they figure out really fast that pulling them gets no where and it gets their focus on YOu and not what is going on down the street. THe last two dogs I did this with, it took only a couple lessons. Sadie was harder, for her tugging was well established and I didn't have time to work with her like I wanted to. Even so it slowed her down considerably and after the second session she was much much better.

Fran101 · Apr 28, 2011

Heres my 2 cents, it helps with Romeo A LOT.

I agree with the back up method, and click and treat for the position you want
for me.. It is walking by my left side.

mark/treat for going in the right position as well as STAYING in the right position. (aka: don't encourage PULL and then going back.. encourage just staying back with lots of treats)

then use a command for letting her go sniff "Go sniff" or "go potty" and let her explore that area and then say "lets go!" and keep walking again in position. Its important that she knows that she DOES get to sniff and see things, just on your terms, so no yanking

DO NOT EVER let yanking/pulling get her anywhere. I don't care what it is, if Romeo tries to drag me to get there.. he will never get to see it lol

also try and have a command like "GO PLAY!" when you are going to let her off leash to run around, like at the park. (make her sit first if you can, anything else encourages the pulling and darting/running away sometimes)

Hope it helps

~Dixie's_Mom~ · Apr 29, 2011

Thank so much everyone!

I read the clicker thread, and went out and got a couple clickers at petsmart. Couldn't find a long line at the dollar store, but we have a tie out:

--> This red thing

would that work? If not, where can I get a decently priced long leash? (Preferably one that I don't have to tie a new clasp on).

For beginning with clicker training, what should I start with (to get her used to the clicker = good things)? Should I just click, and treat over and over? How long will it take for her to understand that the click means she's done something good? I'm a TOTAL beginner, so I know nothing about clicker training at all. All I've done is read Kayla's thread in the training board.

~Dixie's_Mom~ · Apr 29, 2011

Also, I'm watching some videos on youtube. Currently watching this:

YouTube - Clicker Training 101 - Basic Concepts

Southpaw · Apr 29, 2011

Watch Kikopup's channel on Youtube.

She does some pretty awesome things with her dogs and I believe she has a video (or maybe more) about how to get started with a clicker.

Personally I find it easiest to just start working on a behavior. With Juno I charged it by going click/treat, click/treat, click/treat over and over and over again, and that gets them to understand that the click = food reward coming.... BUT it does not teach them that their behavior is what earns them the click. So I found that, when I went to teach Juno to sit, she did not understand that it was her sitting that made me click, and that earned the reward... does that make sense? Basically, she thought the click was INdependent of her behavior. So you have to then teach them that their behavior is what "makes you click" so to speak.

So, I started with a basic behavior to get Juno to grasp this concept: hand targeting. As long as you give the treat immediately following the click, she will still pick up the association that good things happen when she hears that noise. But you're also pairing it with a behavior so she can start to understand that it's something that she earns.

~Dixie's_Mom~ · Apr 29, 2011

What Is Clicker Training? | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

I also read this, which helped SOOO much!

Sorry for all the back to back posting, but I just wanted to say, that I did a short "session" just now. I wasn't sure if I should just click, treat, click, treat for no behavior (just to teach association: click = treat) so I used a behavior she already knows fairly well (sit). I'd wait for her to sit, click, then treat. (Over and over for about a couple minutes). We'll continue with this (probably do another short session tonight) until I feel like she understands that the click means "yes! good job!, etc". Then hopefully I can start using it to teach her to LLW!

ANY advice at all is VERY appreciated. I'm really looking forward to this - I think it will really help everyone in the family to form a bond with her.

ETA: Southpaw, we posted at the same time, and I have to go to the store, so I'll read your post when I get back!

Dekka · Apr 29, 2011

I don't load the clicker, I just go straight to shaping a hand target. IME loading the clicker never helps and sometimes hurts. (you have to go from whoot I get cookies for nothing, to having to offer things) I find it works faster if you dive right in.

lizzybeth727 · Apr 29, 2011

Dekka said:

This is what I do with all my new dogs as well. Hand touches seem to be a good first behavior because you can move around a lot and use your body language to really get the dog excited about training. After a couple of sessions of hand touches, then I click for eye contact (just wait for the dog to look at your eyes, don't cue or prompt anything, and click the eye contact) and then capture down (sit in a boring room and wait for the dog to lay down, then click). I really think these three behaviors give the dog a good basic understanding of clicker training in a very short period of time. Plus, IMO, they're the three most useful behaviors.

lizzybeth727 · Apr 29, 2011

~Dixie's_Mom~ said:

The tie out will probably work fine. Wal Mart carries long lines; so does Tractor Supply. I think Walgreens also has them.

AllieMackie · Apr 29, 2011

I've never loaded the clicker either. I started using the clicker when he already knew a few behaviours, so I just asked him to sit, he did, click as he sat, treat. Did that a bit with behaviours he already knew then went on to new behaviours.

I could have just as easily just started shaping the new behaviours with the clicker as if we'd always been using it. Dogs will quickly understand that the click comes exactly when they do what was wanted.

If you've read Kayla's thread and Karen Pryor's stuff... what are you confused about? LOL between the two of them it should explain it all... the clicker's simply a tool, you can use it to shape any behaviours you want.

oc_spirit · Apr 30, 2011

Its great that you're focused on teaching her LLW!!! Awesome!!! So many husky owners just write off pulling as "its a husky thing" and allow theirs to drag them everywhere. My lead dog drives hard in harness but take the harness off and he pops next to my side in a heel. It can be done just takes work! (eegads! lol)

I did want to mention though, I'm not sure if you plan on doing any sort of pulling activity with Violet but if so I recommend being consistent in that wearing a harness means pulling is ok and wearing just a collar means no pulling. You'd also want to teach that concept now even though she's too young yet to be pulling any weight.

Right now my 8 month old has zero concept of LLW and thats exactly the way I planned her upbringing. I want her to have a good solid understanding of working in harness and throwing all her weight into the pull BEFORE I teach anything about having a slack leash. Is it a pain to walk her? Well I certainly am getting strength training LOL But I know the pay out of her as a sled dog will be worth it! Could I teach her LLW now and then teach her about pulling come sledding season? Yes but on average mushers have noted higher drive if done the way I'm doing. Her entire puppyhood I've also been encouraging her to be out in front of me tackling scary situations and obstacles head on with confidence.

Sometimes giving them an outlet of when to pull actually helps to have a more reliable "when not to pull". Ever consider weight pulling, scootering, bikejoring, roller blading or skijoring at all?

~Dixie's_Mom~ · Apr 30, 2011

Thanks so much for all the advice!

As for doing any kind of rollerblading, skijoring, etc, I've thought about it, but I think I'd be horrible at it, lol! I don't really live in the right environment for skijoring (not much snow except occasionally in the dead of winter) and I don't know how to rollerblade, and would be scared to break my leg or neck or something. :lol-sign:

I do hope to eventually get her into some kind of dog sport. Whether it be agility, or flyball, or whatever, I'm not sure yet.

Teaching to walk on the leash w/out pulling?

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