Teaching to walk on the leash w/out pulling?

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

Gah. More and more every day I realize how clueless I am about dog training, and realize how much MORE research I should've done before getting another dog. *pulls hair out*

How should I go about training Violet to walk right on the leash? She can be COMPLETELY tired out, and she still feels a need to pull on the leash - I don't get it. When we were walking her from the dog park to the car, she was pulling, pulling, pulling. It was ridiculous. I had to stop like 6 times between the park gate and the car (which was like 20 feet away) and she never did get it. Then from the car to the house, she did the same thing even though she could barely hold her head up she was so exhausted from playing at the park.

She's so stubborn, so I feel like everything we do is 10x harder than it would be with any other dog. I knew what was coming, but I didn't know at the same time, if know what I mean? I expected her to be more like Holly (who she's actually related to!) than Misty, but of course, she's EXACTLY like Misty (who was a complete holy TERROR until she was 2 or 3 years old).

*deep breath* Chants: I love this dog, I love this dog, I love this dog. Lol!

Disclaimer: She really is a good girl, and sooo smart, I just feel like such an inadequate trainer. I'm so glad I have you guys to help!

 

[Dekka]

Dogs pull cause it works. Don't let it work.

Don't just stop (that IME only works with dogs who know the 'keep the leash loose' game) Back up. Mark and reward when she is beside you. Don't EVER let pulling work.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

Excuse my inexperience, but what do you mean by "mark"?

Also, what is the keep the leash loose game (or is that what you described)?

ETA: Nevermind about the second part (unless you think I need to know) -- I just re-read, and realised you said DON'T just stop because etc, etc. Sorry about that!

ETA 2: I use a flexi-lead for outside potty breaks. Is it okay to let her "pull" to go potty? I use an entirely different leash for walking/going places/etc. Will she learn the difference, or should I try to make her walk loose leash for pottying as well? (That would be very hard, as I'm not the only one who takes her to potty, and I would have to teach 4 other people).

 

[Dekka]

Ditch the flexi for the next while, it constantly keeps pressure on. Get a long line (dollar store, and then tie it to a better snap... I find the snaps cheap) and use that.

Don't EVER let pulling 'work' for the next while. In the mean time teach her she can get to walk, as long has she does it politely.

 

[Xandra]

to mark means to click or say "yes" or "good" or whatever cue you've chosen to use that indicates the dog has done well and will soon be rewarded. (just google marker training)

 

[Taqroy]

Excuse my inexperience, but what do you mean by "mark"?

Marking is like clicking. You're telling the dog they're doing it right. I use a clicker but you can use a word, like "Tag" or "Yes" or whatever. Just has to be something that you don't use a ton so they don't get too used to it. Make sure she knows what the word means too (if you need help doing that just say so - I don't want to give you info if you already know it).

What I do with Tipper is this sequence.
1) Walk forward.
2) Stop walking when she hits the end of the leash.
3) Start backing up and calling her.
4) Put out my hand target by my left knee. (Violet needs to know touch first but it's an easy one to teach).
5) As soon as Tipper hits my target with her nose I click (or say my marker word) and start walking forward.
6) Treat while Tipper is in position - facing the right way, walking forward next to me.

Repeat as needed.

I have been trying to work with Tipper in 5-10 minute chunks in the house and backyard. It's much easier there because there are fewer distractions.

Dekka is right about not EVER letting her pull. If you can't keep her from pulling you can try running or just carry her. It's a really hard behavior to get because it's so freaking hard to be consistent.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

Thanks so much everyone!!! Taqroy, I really know nothing, so any help is great (in reference to teaching her what the word means). Actually, I'd love to start clicker training with her. I just don't know the first place to start, or even where to get a clicker. (Do they have them at petsmart?)

Dekka, I'm going to the dollar store today for some picture frames and would love to look for a long line, like you're talking about - what exactly do I look for (is it in the pet area? or is it something meant for humans that can be used for dogs?)?

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

Also, I just watched this video which was pretty helpful (going to do some practicing indoors)!

YouTube - How to train your dog not to pull- Loose Leash Walking

Is the info in the video okay, or are there any changes i should make to the excersise?

 

[Dekka]

Often it looks like a 20 foot leash with a cheap snap. Or you can just buy 20 feet of rope and tie on a snap.

LOL my method is less involved that Taqroy's (though that would work too)

A take dog on leash. Dog pulls, I turn around and walk the other way. As dog passes me I mark reward. Repeat as needed. (somewhere between 3-15 times lol)

Soon the dog is looking to me and is a bit confused. Pulling makes us go in the other direction and yet being near me = food! A new and interesting development.

Then I try walking again. This time when the dog pulls I just back up, and see if the dog comes back to me. At no time do I say or cue anything. No hand touches no words nothing. I want an auto loose leash. If the dog comes back I reward occasionally and keep going.

At no time does pulling EVAR work in this scenario.

IME if you have good timing you should be able to have a reasonable LLW after about 20min. The dog may need a few reminders for the next while, and depending on your dog the odd reminder for the rest of their life lol.

 

[Dekka]

Also, I just watched this video which was pretty helpful (going to do some practicing indoors)!

YouTube - How to train your dog not to pull- Loose Leash Walking

Is the info in the video okay, or are there any changes i should make to the excersise?

ahah posting at the same time. This will work, IME it takes longer with the encouragement. Also I don't agree that a dog walking ahead with out looking back is ignoring you. Dekka and some of my others are trained to walk either at my side, or in front of me with no slack in the leash (but not pulling) depending on what we are doing.

 

[Southpaw]

I posted my method in the thread that Laurelin mqade the other day in the training forum. Lol sorry I'm on my phone so can't type a whole lot... it's basically like Dekka's. Consistency is key, every time you take her on leash it HAS to be training time. You can't be in a hurry and decide you're not going to work on it one day... it has to be every walk, pulling can never get her what she wants.

 

[Taqroy]

Often it looks like a 20 foot leash with a cheap snap. Or you can just buy 20 feet of rope and tie on a snap.

LOL my method is less involved that Taqroy's (though that would work too)

Haha I like your method better! And it's actually the way I did it with Mu, it just doesn't have any effect on Tipper. LOL. The way I posted is the way they teach it in the beginner's class where I train. /shrug. It's a good method but it's pretty involved and sometimes it confuses people.

 

[mrose_s]

I used kikopups vidoes as a guide when teaching Quinn, it was the most frustrating thing I've taught her, she's only been reliable the last couple of months and we've been practicisng since she was 3 months old.
One bump we hit was that before I knew it I was clicking for her attention and had to learn to take note of when she was distracted AND still walking calmly on a loose leash, this helped heaps.

I don't know why I struggle with it so much, I think I was messing wiht the criteria for way too long, depending on my mood I would either want her at my side or didn't care if she was in a front and had to be really tough on myself to be really consistent and thats what made the difference in the end.

 

[Sit Stay]

Dogs pull cause it works. Don't let it work.

Don't just stop (that IME only works with dogs who know the 'keep the leash loose' game) Back up. Mark and reward when she is beside you. Don't EVER let pulling work.

This, this, this!

Don't ever just let her pull because you're tired of stopping and backing up - it will make your progress go so much slower.

Some people prefer the "be a tree" method where you just stop and wait until there's no tension on the leash. I've seen a lot of dogs that will just sit at the end of the leash with their back to the owner. I prefer Dekka's method where you back up (or go the opposite direction - I've seen that too) - it engages the dog more and makes them focus on you and your decisions. I don't let Quinn move on now unless she looks at me - I don't ask her to keep her attention on me when we're walking, but in order to get the reward of walking on after we're stopped or backing up she's got to look to me.

I wish I could remember who it was but someone suggested to clip the leash to a harness when you're not working on LLW, and clip it to the collar when you are. That way you aren't sending mixed signals to the dog by sometimes allowing them to pull, and if you have a dog with a short attention span you can work in little chunks of time without confusing them. I thought this was just a genius idea. I wish I had read it before I got Quinn - I will for sure, for sure be using it with my next puppy.

 

[AllieMackie]

Dekka and Taqroy both gave great advice. I did the backup method with Finn combined with touch targeting like Taq mentioned, and it worked great.

The big one is NEVER LET HER PULL. Pulling is rewarding. It gets her where she wants to go, so it's working. The more you let her pull, the harder it will be to train her not to pull.

If you want to learn to clicker train, look no farther then Chaz - go to the training forum and see Kayla's sticky on Clicker Training 101. Clickers are like 99 cents at Petsmart, go pick up 4-5 of them so everyone in the family has one, and learn clicker training together! In my personal experience (and many others on this forum) it's a great foundation for dogs to learn new or difficult behaviours - but it's a tool that's used to help give a more precise mark, and nothing else. You need to learn the fundamentals of what to mark and when for the best possible training outcomes.

Good luck!

 

[Dekka]

I don't let Quinn move on now unless she looks at me - I don't ask her to keep her attention on me when we're walking, but in order to get the reward of walking on after we're stopped or backing up she's got to look to me.

As an aside. Dekka will forget herself and pull at times when we are at terrier trials (on our way to go to ground is a biggie) If I stop she shoots backwards till she is beside me, but never takes her eyes off the prize.

LOL looking back is good too. Its all in your criteria. When I want focus I have a different regime.

 

[Sit Stay]

Haha, very true Dekka! I imagine at trials in some instances you want to keep that concentration on the 'prize' - I'm not sure but that would make sense to me. I think everyone has their own preferences and purposes - it just depends on your goals and what's important to you!

 

[lizzybeth727]

Can a mod make this a sticky in the Training forum? We get this question all the time, it would be nice if we could just send somebody to read the sticky.

 

[Lizmo]

I don't know why I struggle with it so much, I think I was messing wiht the criteria for way too long, depending on my mood I would either want her at my side or didn't care if she was in a front and had to be really tough on myself to be really consistent and thats what made the difference in the end.

This is me to like, a T. I am such a horrible person when it comes to changing my standard in loose walking, for some reason.

I've struggled with loose walking in both my dogs. Blaze is way better than Liz, but we still had a rough go. Teaching recall in any dog is easy as pie, but for some reason teaching loose walking is like pulling teeth for me.

How was that for a helpful post? lol

 

[Southpaw]

I don't let Quinn move on now unless she looks at me - I don't ask her to keep her attention on me when we're walking, but in order to get the reward of walking on after we're stopped or backing up she's got to look to me.

Same here. If Juno pulls and I start walking backwards, it's not good enough for me that the leash goes slack (although that wouldn't be a bad starting point when you first begin the training). Otherwise she is still in la la land and fixated on God knows what--I want her to acknowledge ME, and pay attention to the fact that I am connected to the leash with her. This goes way beyond LLW too, it is nice to have a compulsive "watcher," a dog that loves checking in on you.

One bump we hit was that before I knew it I was clicking for her attention and had to learn to take note of when she was distracted AND still walking calmly on a loose leash, this helped heaps.

I made that mistake too. It sure looks nice when they do it though lol. It took a while for it to hit me that she's obviously not going to stare at me for the entire walk, so it didn't make sense why I was waiting for that behavior. I still make a very big deal out of her looking up and checking on me, BUT I also make a big stinking deal when she looks at other people, squirrels, birds, etc.

I don't know why I struggle with it so much, I think I was messing wiht the criteria for way too long, depending on my mood I would either want her at my side or didn't care if she was in a front and had to be really tough on myself to be really consistent and thats what made the difference in the end.

And this! I too was very inconsistent. Some days I'd want her right at my side. And then some days she'd be in front of me a bit and I'd go "well, this isn't too bad..." And then the next day I wanted something else. Etc. etc. For the sake of training, you have to pick where you want her, create that imaginary line and don't let her get in front of it. It's just too confusing otherwise. Picture in your head what the "right" behavior is. If YOU don't know what you want, then SHE isn't going to get it, either.

As far as the rest of your family goes. They will have to put in the work if they want her to walk nicely with them. Juno does not behave when other people walk her, but I don't really care as long as it doesn't affect how she behaves with me. I figure if it bothers them enough, then they can take my advice on how to fix it.

Last thing--practice everywhere. Just because she, for example, walks perfectly in your neighborhood, does not mean she will walk politely anywhere else. It's just a good thing to be aware of so you don't bring her somewhere and think she's misbehaving because she's pulling, or think that she should "know better". Juno has been horrendous at generalizing LLW. We have to start from scratch at EVERY new place we go.