Cropping and docking illegal in New York

[noodlerubyallie]

To my personal situation, having a cropped and docked Doberman is a necessity. Why? Because he will be serving as my personal protection. Do I want him to have big, floppy ears to grab or a long, thin tail? No. That's for his safety as well as mine. You may call it cosmetic, but for my own personal reasoning, it's a necessity. So my government telling me I can't have a licensed veterinarian do it because people feel it's cruel and unnecessary really, really irks me.

I'm going to leave this thread and it's insanity. I don't know what's been going on lately, but it seems like a Chaz "let's all lose our minds and manners" virus has been going around, and I've had enough.

 

[jess2416]

As far as cropping and docking, I dont have an opinion, about it, to each there own, if people wanna do it, be my guest, if you dont wanna do it, then fine, but there is NO reason at all to belittle the people that do have it done :nono:

I don't know what's been going on lately, but it seems like a Chaz "let's all lose our minds and manners" virus has been going around, and I've had enough.

:hail::hail:

 

[puppydog]

if people wanna do it, be my guest, if you dont wanna do it, then fine, but there is NO reason at all to belittle the people that do have it done :nono:

AGREED! :hail:

 

[smkie]

As far as uncropped Dobes suffering, probably not many. It's not ear infections I'm concerned about with floppy ears. I've seen more ear splits than anything caused by shaking and whatnot. A lady my friend/breeder knows swore to her she'd never, ever own a cropped dog. So she got a floppy one... after that dog, she said she'd never again not crop. Now she has two cropped Dobes. When we had the Dachshunds, Jesse constantly split the bottoms of her ears open and there was blood all over my bedroom wall constantly. The same thing happens with the 3 Ridgebacks I know, and a Dal, and the few floppy Dobes I've known. Sure, it's tolerable, but I'd rather not deal with it at all. After watching Ripley's and Keira's litters during and after cropping, I truly don't understand why anyone is against it... I really don't. I'd bet if people had the opportunity to see a litter after cropping they'd feel differently and see that it's not as big a deal as some make it out to be. As soon as they came out of anaesthetic they were wandering around playing, eating, and didn't show any signs of pain unless another pup stepped on them or something. I rubbed ointment on the ears (directly onto the open edge/stitches) 5 times a day for a while and they didn't care whatsoever. In fact, they liked it.





And that would be one reason why reputable breeders don't tell people which puppy is their's until after docking and cropping usually. Personally, I'd rather my puppy die at a young age due to cropping than have him die at an older age (when I'm already bonded to him) during a neuter. Not that I want either to happen, but hopefully you (general you) get what I mean.

WOw i have never seen a split ear like you describe. I have seen a hematoma after a fight or a dog being allowed to kick at it during an infection, seen ears that were bloody from insects which is so very wrong, but never split. I have always had and worked with floppy earred dogs so I am surprised.

I looked up ear splits on the web. I found alot about corn Finally one on a ridgeback site that showed how to tape it up. My question is if this were a common occurance why wouldn't all floppy dogs have their ears cropped?

 

[tessa_s212]

As far as cropping and docking, I dont have an opinion, about it, to each there own, if people wanna do it, be my guest, if you dont wanna do it, then fine, but there is NO reason at all to belittle the people that do have it done :nono:

:hail::hail:

I fullheartedly agree. For me, I don't agree with it, but I certainly won't attack you for it or label you a dog abuser if you so choose to dock or crop.


I'm also interested in this ear splitting business. Never owned a prick eared dog, always floppy, but never ever had that problem. Only problem we ever had was a hematoma in Summer's ear (we were currently treating ear infection, and she hated the medicine and would shake her head so that's what we ended up with, ick!). It seems to me, as well, that splitting the ear is pretty rare and likely not common enough to be used as a valid reason that ear cropping could actually be a preventative procedure for anything?

 

[smkie]

I would give Puppydog credit i think she has given good reason why cropping for hunting dogs in her country is a valid procedure. THat is the purpose of a thread like this to put forth both sides of the arguement. SHe certainly made me change my view there. I have never seen that here, but if it is like that there then that would be good reason.

AS to the sounds a 3 day old pup can make I had a pup that i was bottle feeding. This pup and the other two had been seperated from the mother at birth and were in a very weak state. One of them developed a staff infection in his leg that swelled up to a horrible size. THat pup screamed. It would wrench your heart right out of you to hear it. I couldn't get him to the vet fast enough and there was nothing to do but pts. I will never forget that sound as long as i live.

IF you don't want to grab your dog by the tail or the ear while it is protecting you, then don't grab it by the tail or the ear. I have broken up enough fights without doing so with dogs that had both.

 

[Dekka]

None of them make that noise.

So its ok to protect from brambles.. but its not ok for JRTs even though having a tail can be fatal (for various reasons)?

 

[CharlieDog]

Wow. Okay. Just waded through this whole thread.

I... really... wow. I don't know what to say.

I think that as long as it is done by a liscensed veterinarian in a sterile environment with clean and sanitary tools and under anasthetic, then its fine. Docking and cropping dogs are not the end of the world. Seriously.

Most of you are a bunch of hypocrites. How can you advocate spay neuter for every dog, even pediatric ones, and yet docking a dogs tail, or cropping their ears nauseates you? Wow. Backwards much?

 

[bubbatd]

CD.... you are comparing oranges to apples .

 

[Dekka]

CD.... you are comparing oranges to apples .

No the whole point is you aren't.

 

[CharlieDog]

Grammy, no its not. Both are surgerys. Both have their places and both are necessary in certain situations.

You wouldn't deny someone the right to have their dog spayed or neutered. Why would you want to deny them the right to dock or crop their dog?

 

[happyhound]

BTW.. I own a tailed cocker spaniel. Never ever had an injury to that beautiful tail of hers.

But how much time does your tailed cocker spend flushing birds during hunting season?

My guess is NADA.

Anyone who thinks tail injuries aren't that common need to go check out some pointing dog forums during hunting season. People post photos after their hunts and it's very common to see pointers and setters with bloodied busted tails (and then the owners asking how the heck to get the tails to heal). Heck, just go search for some pointer and setter breeders (field bred, obviously) and a lot have photos posted after hunts with animals with bloodied tails. AND if you look at some field pointers some even have the tip docked.

For dogs that may never do what they were bred to do it is no big deal to leave the tails. For those that do the job they were bred to do and have tails docked NEED them docked.

 

[tessa_s212]

But how much time does your tailed cocker spend flushing birds during hunting season?

My guess is NADA.

Anyone who thinks tail injuries aren't that common need to go check out some pointing dog forums during hunting season. People post photos after their hunts and it's very common to see pointers and setters with bloodied busted tails (and then the owners asking how the heck to get the tails to heal). Heck, just go search for some pointer and setter breeders (field bred, obviously) and a lot have photos posted after hunts with animals with bloodied tails. AND if you look at some field pointers some even have the tip docked.

For dogs that may never do what they were bred to do it is no big deal to leave the tails. For those that do the job they were bred to do and have tails docked NEED them docked.

But that is precisely it - I was specifically speaking of docking in PET dogs. In working dogs, I can understand. OF course, it still would go over my head why long, skinny tailed dogs such as English Pointers keep their tails,... but in the end I can see the reason and believe it is valid enough for *working* dogs. But pets? Nah.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

I've got a floppy eared dog with a split ear at the moment. Didn't spray blood but it's obviously painful. So much fur there it has taken ages to figure out the problem. Had to talk to other people with long fured, floppy eared dogs.

The answer.. the bottom of the ear leather is often thin. And with long fur on it if you aren't making sure endlessly it's not tangling it can pull and tear.

Never had an issue with Cider, her ear leather seems to be thicker, and her ears don't grow that long even when left alone.

Smudge seems to have 2 tears in his ear leather in one ear, and I'm trying to baby it, but it's obviously painful for him. I brush his ears out often, but his still tore.

I googled like mad after I was told and then found tears. I couldn't find anything. Seems it's common enough in Cockers and afghans though. Those are the people that finally gave me enough info to solve it.

 

[Dekka]

But that is precisely it - I was specifically speaking of docking in PET dogs. In working dogs, I can understand. OF course, it still would go over my head why long, skinny tailed dogs such as English Pointers keep their tails,... but in the end I can see the reason and believe it is valid enough for *working* dogs. But pets? Nah.

Ok.. so tell my how shall I know at 3 days what Dekklet is maybe going to a working home and what one is destined to be a pet/agility dog?

 

[CharlieDog]

But you CAN have a dog s/n for purely selfish reasons and not catch any flack for it. Its seen as "being responsible" rather than being a lazy person.

If you say you want to c/d for selfish reasons (i.e. selfish being something like showing, or "cosmetic", not saying anything about anyone person in particular, but not talking about working dogs who really do require it) people are generally going to jump all over you. That, to me is hypocritical.

C/D procedures do not require TEN DAYS of rest/crating/limited activity. C/D is not removing a VITAL part of the dog. Both are removing NATURAL parts, but how "natural" are our dogs these days anyway? Breeding for standards where the dogs can't even reproduce "naturally" is far worse to me, in the grand scheme of things.

 

[tessa_s212]

Having the ear split is not something I've heard happening often in cockers? Not even on my cocker spaniel forum. Never had a cocker with that problem, even way back when I was a wee little one and my parents neglected the dogs' grooming and would allow them to get matted. Is it really that common? I've just never even heard of it before in my life.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

How many had show length ears?

Problem seems to be in the thin ears with excess fur. Not the ear existing.

 

[happyhound]

But that is precisely it - I was specifically speaking of docking in PET dogs. In working dogs, I can understand. OF course, it still would go over my head why long, skinny tailed dogs such as English Pointers keep their tails,... but in the end I can see the reason and believe it is valid enough for *working* dogs. But pets? Nah.

Which then leaves the problem of just who is breeding dogs with no purpose other than pets? BYBs are the only ones producing dogs with tails (that should be docked).

 

[Dekka]

Having the ear split is not something I've heard happening often in cockers? Not even on my cocker spaniel forum. Never had a cocker with that problem, even way back when I was a wee little one and my parents neglected the dogs' grooming and would allow them to get matted. Is it really that common? I've just never even heard of it before in my life.

Yes but you have admitted your cockers you were breeding back then weren't show quality or health tested etc... So perhaps they too didn't have the issues that the more 'correct' cockers have. You are not talking apples to oranges here, to steal a phrase.

Was your cocker forum full of pet quality and byb cockers? If so... And why doubt Maf? I know how much searching she did only to find it common...just not talked about.