Cropping and docking illegal in New York

[gale]

One argument struck me from someone who was anti crop/dock and from a country where it is banned nonetheless. Why is it okay to do these kinds of surgeries on other animals? They dock more than just dogs of course (sheep, some manx cats, etc). As far as ears go, we use ear tags all the time in livestock. The feral cats around here have part of their ear removed and no one bats their eye at all. Why this double standard?

I have mixed feelings on cropping (mostly the posting process not the surgery), but docking doesn't bother me at all. Still working on my stance.

I think sheep tails are docked to keep them from getting all poopy. I know that pig's tails are docked to prevent them from biting each other's tails (and yes they will even if they have tons of space-we used to raise hogs outdoors in pastures).

I honestly don't think tagging ears on livestock is the same as clipping (or whatever it's called) ears on dogs.

 

[smkie]

WEll i was surprise today to see at the dog park not one but three dobies with natural ears but cropped tails. ANd for the first time in a long time i saw a cropped dane. I have seen so many natural eared ones lately that i forgot what one looked like that was. SO maybe the trend follows what has been said here. THat tail docking may be necessary but at least here where i am seeing dogs natural ears are becoming the norm which makes me myself and I very happy.

 

[JennSLK]

lot of BYB will do tails but not ears. Tails are easy and are just done at home. Ears take more effort and cost more. Plus they are hard to do so most BYB dont bother.

That being said there are a few good breeders that dont do ears.

I have never seen a dobe with a tail that wasnt a direct import. Even the most BYB puppy mill dobes are docked.

I prefer the croped/docked look personaly

 

[Fran101]

lot of BYB will do tails but not ears. Tails are easy and are just done at home. Ears take more effort and cost more. Plus they are hard to do so most BYB dont bother.

That being said there are a few good breeders that dont do ears.

I have never seen a dobe with a tail that wasnt a direct import. Even the most BYB puppy mill dobes are docked.

I prefer the croped/docked look personaly

Even BYBs know that no average joe is going to pay good money for a dobe that isn't docked. People going out to a BYB want a purebred dog, and they know that if they have an undocked one.. nobody is going to think their dog is a purebred. its unfortunate but true.

as for the ears.. many BYBs just tell the people buying them that they can have their vet do it for them.
Well..thats what I hear from people anyway

 

[corgipower]

The boxer breeders I know would ask puppy buyers if the wanted the ears cropped or not. By the time ears are done, the breeder has a pretty good idea of which puppies will go to which homes.

 

[FoxyWench]

unfortunatly home crop jobs are very common at least in some of the ct cities (primarily on "tough dogs" pit/mixes and dobies, there a common sight walking down the street around here huge spiked collar pulling their person behind them with these awefull obviously home done crop jobs...
I actually love the look of a docked tail and natural ears, BUT thats what i grew up with, i didnt think a dobe was supposed to have pointy ears untill i came to this country and im still not used to the look...

 

[smkie]

THat's a shame. Well they looked like nice enough dobe's too me. I could have asked their owners where they got them but i consider that bad manners. THeir tails looked like "good" crop jobs to me. I thought maybe they just liked ears too. Guess all the dobies at the park were byb because they all had ears but looked magnificant. Kind of hard to believe all of them were byb but oh well.

I love Danes with natural ears. I have only seen two out there with crop jobs.
THere are a lot of danes at the dog park. I only wish i did lived in a country where i never see another ear job ever. BUt that is me and everyone else can be everyone else. I feel very strongly about it and that is my right too.

 

[Dekka]

THat's a shame. Well they looked like nice enough dobe's too me. I could have asked their owners where they got them but i consider that bad manners. THeir tails looked like "good" crop jobs to me. I thought maybe they just liked ears too. Guess all the dobies at the park were byb because they all had ears but looked magnificant. Kind of hard to believe all of them were byb but oh well.

I love Danes with natural ears. I have only seen two out there with crop jobs.
THere are a lot of danes at the dog park. I only wish i did lived in a country where i never see another ear job ever. BUt that is me and everyone else can be everyone else. I feel very strongly about it and that is my right too.

It is your right to feel that way. Just as its other people's right to feel their way. I love the look of cropped dobes, but natural danes.. If I was ever to get a dog though I would be more concerend with other aspects of the breeder when it came to my dog than cropping (as a pet).. quality of food, early socialization etc.

 

[smkie]

I think all aspects of a puppy's care important. No one part any less than the other.

 

[Dekka]

LOL good luck then finding an undocked/cropped dog from a breeder. I cant think of any who go to great lengths in producing great pups, who then ignore breed standard.

 

[smkie]

. I hope one day breed standards will be open to BOTH. THat would be a good start. Why should one be any better than the other in or out of the ring? For the adverage pet owner not the small percentage that hunt their dogs or use them for guard dogs as compared to the family pet it just isn't necessary.

 

[Dekka]

With docking (i feel like a broken record here) how is a breeder to know at 3 days where their pups are going? People have mentioned that cropping, as its done later can be done when the breeder knows where the pups are going.

 

[smkie]

NOt a problem for me because there is no way i would buy a dog with cropped ears. Guess i belong in a country where it wouldn't be a worry. Time will tell how it all turns out.

 

[Dekka]

ummm *confused... are you reading my posts?

I don't feel comfortable with long bodied short legged dogs.. so of course I am not going to buy one!! No one is saying you have to love the look If you wish to stay close minded about it is fine. (everyone is right to their opinions.. see my siggy lol) but please refrain from insulting us who do have d/c breeds and making passive aggressive comments (and not so passive-ie mutilation)

 

[MafiaPrincess]

Pretty happy with my cockers tails meeting the breed standard. Might be more open to change if their tails conformed, but every un docked cocker I've met has had a drastically different tail. People would have to be breeding specifically to fix that.

 

[CharlieDog]

I can tell on Ozzys tail where it should have been docked. He comes from two docked breeds, and his tail has muscle around the base, but after a certain point, you can feel it doesn't, and should have been docked off.

Now, Oz isn't a working dog, so its not a big deal to me for him to have a tail. If he was a working dog, his tail could potentially cause problems, most likely from getting broken.

Do I wish he was docked? No, but I wouldn't have mattered to me either way. If the person who had his mother had elected to dock the litter, so what. That would have been their perogative.

 

[smkie]

Guess i do wish to stay closed minded on the ear part because i haven't seen a logical arguement (not knowing who is going to buy and who isn't is NOT a reason to do it IMO) if you believe that it causes pain which i do. I have not seen any arguement that proved to me that it is necessary. I have been swayed by what Puppydog wrote about docking. I do not believe the ear "just a little flap of skin" and i do not believe that the ear is constructed to do this as a natural ear is. I feel it is a crime against nature to destroy a dog's ear. I don't care what breeders think in general. I think breeders have screwed up so many dogs with their desire for this or that so much that many breeds have just been ruined.

Now if anyone can prove that cutting through 36o nerves and using stitches to close the damage is painless I still wouldn't think it is right. THe ear stroke in t touch is so beneficial. You can even help keep your dog from falling all the way into shock if he'she is injured and your racing to the vet. That stroke from the inside to the edge of the ear is something every dog i have tried it on has been so responsive. I think all of those nerves are important and a dog's right to have. I do not think puppies need to go through this procedure, not worth the risk. Their time of being a puppy is so short, it should be nothing more than what it is. I think we should see the beauty of an ear as it is, not as we alter it.

I do read your posts Dekka...I just don't agree with them.

 

[Dekka]

So I should let my working dogs have long tails? You honestly think thats a good idea Smkie?

 

[smkie]

Did i say that DEkka...do you read my posts?

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Guess i do wish to stay closed minded on the ear part because i haven't seen a logical arguement (not knowing who is going to buy and who isn't is NOT a reason to do it IMO) if you believe that it causes pain which i do. I have not seen any arguement that proved to me that it is necessary. I have been swayed by what Puppydog wrote about docking. I do not believe the ear "just a little flap of skin" and i do not believe that the ear is constructed to do this as a natural ear is. I feel it is a crime against nature to destroy a dog's ear. I don't care what breeders think in general. I think breeders have screwed up so many dogs with their desire for this or that so much that many breeds have just been ruined.

Now if anyone can prove that cutting through 36o nerves and using stitches to close the damage is painless I still wouldn't think it is right. THe ear stroke in t touch is so beneficial. You can even help keep your dog from falling all the way into shock if he'she is injured and your racing to the vet. That stroke from the inside to the edge of the ear is something every dog i have tried it on has been so responsive. I think all of those nerves are important and a dog's right to have. I do not think puppies need to go through this procedure, not worth the risk. Their time of being a puppy is so short, it should be nothing more than what it is. I think we should see the beauty of an ear as it is, not as we alter it.

I do read your posts Dekka...I just don't agree with them.

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[Renee750il]

I think perhaps no one will ever KNOW for certain until such time as we figure out how to have a linguistic conversation with dogs. They're the only ones who can tell us for sure how it affects them; we can only surmise on our own.

This isn't a debate that either side is ever going to wholly win over the other to their way of thinking.