Because groping six year olds keeps us safe!
- Thread starter Lilavati
- Start date
This is a mature discussion. You are the one not reading the links.
The TSA didn't listen to the man when he stated he had a medical condition. They broke the seal on the bag. YOU assumed it was a 'drama' thing or something, and didn't read the link. The mature thing would be to read some of them before dismissing them.
How about the woman who had her breasts exposed to all waiting in line. Is that MY drama, or did it actually happen?
How is someone putting forth credible examples not mature. Personally I call that research. How is simply saying it makes me feel better so it all ok and you are all silly because its the brave new world, make me not mature?
Put forth some logic, some examples, some proof that what you want everyone else subjected to has any point at all.
The TSA didn't listen to the man when he stated he had a medical condition. They broke the seal on the bag. YOU assumed it was a 'drama' thing or something, and didn't read the link. The mature thing would be to read some of them before dismissing them.
How about the woman who had her breasts exposed to all waiting in line. Is that MY drama, or did it actually happen?
How is someone putting forth credible examples not mature. Personally I call that research. How is simply saying it makes me feel better so it all ok and you are all silly because its the brave new world, make me not mature?
Put forth some logic, some examples, some proof that what you want everyone else subjected to has any point at all.
Dekka? Immature? Dekka has got to be the most mature person on this thread by a mile, and I'm counting myself there.
You just think its immature to object to TSA procedures. Fine. Think that. Its your right.
I personally think that truly being mature means not cowering at imaginary threats. Being mature is having enough self-respect to stand up for my own dignity and autonomy, and to accept the fact that life is full of risks.
We disagree. But you could stop insulting people . . . because that really is immature.
You just think its immature to object to TSA procedures. Fine. Think that. Its your right.
I personally think that truly being mature means not cowering at imaginary threats. Being mature is having enough self-respect to stand up for my own dignity and autonomy, and to accept the fact that life is full of risks.
We disagree. But you could stop insulting people . . . because that really is immature.
You haven't explained how its drama. Many of these went and won in court. I am not making them up. Heck I can find loads more. How is what is going on out there dramatic. (well ok it is, but not in the way you mean)
And you asked for suggestions, I posted a very good and credible one and yet you are still saying "oh and what do you propose.." Well at least read my post before you dismiss it
And you asked for suggestions, I posted a very good and credible one and yet you are still saying "oh and what do you propose.." Well at least read my post before you dismiss it
How about this? Why are we dumping billions of taxpayer dollars into a system that has never, ONCE caught a terrorist. Not ONCE. That also violated our constitutional rights, so PRIVATE AIRLINES can have security.
If anything, the airlines should be paying for their OWN security companies. They could have more control over the people being hired, since people who get hired by the TSA wouldn't pass the background checks for most private security companies. Maybe we'd get some officers with better morals and not end up with people getting their valuables stolen, and they can model the system after one that is proven to work such as the Israeli example Dekka supplied.
The TSA doesn't make me "feel safe". I'm afraid of THEM. I won't fly because I'm worried about that the TSA is going to do to me or my loved ones. Not because of the extremely slim chance a terrorist might get on a plane and manage to cause trouble despite the armed federal air marshal on board or the fact that people are expecting plane hijackers to be suicide bombers and will actually do something about it vs. thinking they are just going to detour to Cuba and eventually end up home.
If anything, the airlines should be paying for their OWN security companies. They could have more control over the people being hired, since people who get hired by the TSA wouldn't pass the background checks for most private security companies. Maybe we'd get some officers with better morals and not end up with people getting their valuables stolen, and they can model the system after one that is proven to work such as the Israeli example Dekka supplied.
The TSA doesn't make me "feel safe". I'm afraid of THEM. I won't fly because I'm worried about that the TSA is going to do to me or my loved ones. Not because of the extremely slim chance a terrorist might get on a plane and manage to cause trouble despite the armed federal air marshal on board or the fact that people are expecting plane hijackers to be suicide bombers and will actually do something about it vs. thinking they are just going to detour to Cuba and eventually end up home.
What do I want?
Disband the TSA.
Get rid of those wretched machines, or maintain just a couple as a back up if the metal detector fails.
Bring back the wands. Reserve pat downs as a last resort.
Let me keep my shoes and my soda.
Remind airport security that their job, their ONLY job, is to protect the plane, and that they are not law enforcement. Whether I have a gun in my purse is their business, whether I have 10,000 in cash in there is not.
Either abolish the no-fly list or constrain it to the small number of people who might plausibly actually pose a threat to a plane and who are actually being investigated.
Save billions of dollars when we are short on money.
Disband the TSA.
Get rid of those wretched machines, or maintain just a couple as a back up if the metal detector fails.
Bring back the wands. Reserve pat downs as a last resort.
Let me keep my shoes and my soda.
Remind airport security that their job, their ONLY job, is to protect the plane, and that they are not law enforcement. Whether I have a gun in my purse is their business, whether I have 10,000 in cash in there is not.
Either abolish the no-fly list or constrain it to the small number of people who might plausibly actually pose a threat to a plane and who are actually being investigated.
Save billions of dollars when we are short on money.
Darn it! I watched it not all that long ago (heart wrenching, I wonder where they find this sort of people to work for the TSA)
Seems it got taken down because its going through the courts.
hmm ok how about this one? 4 year old disabled boy made to remove braces and walk through the scanner.
The boy could barely walk without them, and was made to walk through the scanners on his own. The TSA agents refused to let the mom help him.
TSA Maks 4 Yr Old Disabled Boy Remove Leg Braces Video
Seems it got taken down because its going through the courts.
hmm ok how about this one? 4 year old disabled boy made to remove braces and walk through the scanner.
The boy could barely walk without them, and was made to walk through the scanners on his own. The TSA agents refused to let the mom help him.
TSA Maks 4 Yr Old Disabled Boy Remove Leg Braces Video
now see, Lil, I totally agree with you to stand up for your rights. what is missing is it IS the masses that are demanding something be done to TRY and protect them. and no, darkchild..I wasn't calling YOU a crybaby...it was the masses that cry like babies demanding that the government DO SOMETHING. hey..I'm not all about the government here. I AM about acknowledging that pressure caused this sucky system we have in place. did I not say already it sucks? yes, I did. but I won't cry about the original post where a child was given a simple pat down without any assault. no..I. won't. THAT was the original outcry, and I simply didn't agree that it was this horrendous act you all want it to be. I have no reason to toot the horn of the TSA. all I'm saying is that most of the examples of how horrible it is is drama. ok..base it on any fact you want...it was dramatized to the hilt.
again...instead of believing every single drama you read about , I have yet heard one reply as to your big plan. do nothing? then that's great. I do believe I already said I hope that works for you. then all of you can feel better about taking your babies on planes where they let anyone on without question. what do I care..right? it's better than somebody possibly brushing up against your golden boobies.
gonna go make dinner. LOL
again...instead of believing every single drama you read about , I have yet heard one reply as to your big plan. do nothing? then that's great. I do believe I already said I hope that works for you. then all of you can feel better about taking your babies on planes where they let anyone on without question. what do I care..right? it's better than somebody possibly brushing up against your golden boobies.
gonna go make dinner. LOL
So simply saying a man had to travel with his own urine on him is dramatizing the event? Or that having your breasts exposed to other waiting passengers is also a dramatization of the event? Those are just the facts of what happened. If you want hue and cry of how humiliated and damaging it was that might be dramatizing...
You accuse me of dramatizing, yet I agreed that the child pat down was not one of those things that offended me. I just think its unnecessary.
That wasn't my point. Is that they are doing things to people that is not nice. They are not making you or your family safer. In fact it shows this procedure makes you less safe. Just who pressured them into it? From what I remember there was a pretty big back lash right from the get go.
Once again whos plan for where? I posted a viable and proven option, yet you keep ignoring it and saying "but no one has any other suggestions" Lil had some good ones too.
Interestingly there were more plane terrorist attacks well before 9/11. Some countries found ways to keep their public safe..... but then you would have to read my post
You accuse me of dramatizing, yet I agreed that the child pat down was not one of those things that offended me. I just think its unnecessary.
That wasn't my point. Is that they are doing things to people that is not nice. They are not making you or your family safer. In fact it shows this procedure makes you less safe. Just who pressured them into it? From what I remember there was a pretty big back lash right from the get go.
Once again whos plan for where? I posted a viable and proven option, yet you keep ignoring it and saying "but no one has any other suggestions" Lil had some good ones too.
Interestingly there were more plane terrorist attacks well before 9/11. Some countries found ways to keep their public safe..... but then you would have to read my post
Um, how did you miss the several posts where people proposed a system modeled after the Israeli airport security? What about where it was proposed we abolish the TSA and let private transportation companies fund their own security?
I also think they should start using dogs trained for explosives and chemical detection. The Sulimov dogs used in Chechnya have caught terrorists smuggling explosives into airports. A dog would also be able to detect substances being concealed in body cavities, as opposed to the radiation machines and patdowns which do not.
I also think they should start using dogs trained for explosives and chemical detection. The Sulimov dogs used in Chechnya have caught terrorists smuggling explosives into airports. A dog would also be able to detect substances being concealed in body cavities, as opposed to the radiation machines and patdowns which do not.
9/11, which catalyzed the TSA wasn't caused by a freaking bomb it was just men with box cutters, which were permitted on board at the time, and even now that they are banned on a plane they still get through security. There have still been relatively few attempts at bombing and your chance of getting killed by a whacko on an airplane is sooo insignificant when compared with daily risks we don't even think about. I don't even care that much about airport security, scan me, pat me down (not a groping, a simple pat down...) I'll be over it in 3 seconds, but a) some people do care and b) on the merit of not wanting to wait in line alone, this is a stupid idea.
I WISH that airlines could choose their own security and then people who are scared of plane bombers could choose to patted down before they go on a plane, and then they could all fly together with peace of mind that there is no way a bomber could be amongst them.
People who are logical about the risks they face and don't think it's worth the pat downs and lineup could use another airline, with maybe a metal detector, luggage search, some basic stuff.
I suspect that the airline that offered safety gropes would do pretty poorly.
I WISH that airlines could choose their own security and then people who are scared of plane bombers could choose to patted down before they go on a plane, and then they could all fly together with peace of mind that there is no way a bomber could be amongst them.
People who are logical about the risks they face and don't think it's worth the pat downs and lineup could use another airline, with maybe a metal detector, luggage search, some basic stuff.
I suspect that the airline that offered safety gropes would do pretty poorly.
Ah, but you see, I didn't demand any one do anything. I did not ask the government to protect me. To the degree that I was, like everyone else, very alarmed by 9/11, that wore off LONG before this was put into place . . . as soon as I realized that the moderately heightened security afterwards (which seemed reasonable enough) was not only not going away, it was about to get a lot worse.
And I have never suggested we abolish airport security altogether . . . I think metal detectors are a pretty good idea, really. Nor do I think people who have raised suspicions of being a threat to the plane should not be questioned . . . I just think we need to return to basically what we had in terms of process at the airport pre-9/11.
And if drama (although much of this sounds like reasonable enough complaints to me, either because its genuinely a violation of human dignity or because its incredibly STUPID) is what it takes to convince the masses that they TSA is a bad idea, so be it.
And I have never suggested we abolish airport security altogether . . . I think metal detectors are a pretty good idea, really. Nor do I think people who have raised suspicions of being a threat to the plane should not be questioned . . . I just think we need to return to basically what we had in terms of process at the airport pre-9/11.
And if drama (although much of this sounds like reasonable enough complaints to me, either because its genuinely a violation of human dignity or because its incredibly STUPID) is what it takes to convince the masses that they TSA is a bad idea, so be it.