Because groping six year olds keeps us safe!

[Dekka]

again...instead of believing every single drama you read about , I have yet heard one reply as to your big plan. do nothing? then that's great. I do believe I already said I hope that works for you. then all of you can feel better about taking your babies on planes where they let anyone on without question. what do I care..right? it's better than somebody possibly brushing up against your golden boobies.

gonna go make dinner. LOL

Perhaps you are a 'show me' type person. You tube is full of videos SHOWING TSA agents doing these things. Why is it so hard for you to believe these things happen?

Many of these things are done in view of many witnesses. Why are you so invested with the idea that the TSA is incapable of these things?

 

[Doberluv]

What will you do when you can't go into a grocery store, a clothing store, a restaurant, a concert, when you can't go into a courthouse to do business without being touched all over and treated like a criminal? When waiting in line at the ferry boat, they have dogs sniffing cars for explosives. So far, they haven't forced people to get out of their cars and be patted down, but that could come.

Why don't they use dogs at airports more? I'd much rather have a dog stick stick his nose in my crotch than a TSA agent.:rofl1: At least I'd be unconcerned with a dog's motives...and besides, I'm use to those infernal, dog pat downs.

Debi, anywhere else, any other context, it would be an assault to do what these gov-hired agents are doing. It is a violation to many peoples' view. People are traumatized. My own daughter was sobbing and in tears after a flight. It's humiliating and as Dekka pointed out so well in that post, ineffective and unnecessary. Intelligence, before a terrorist gets to the airport, is what thwarts terrorists...in the extreme vast majority of cases. Your argument to not fly if one doesn't like being treated this way is not right. Here's why: Flying is a legal activity. The citizens have not been specifically set aside as suspects. There is NO probable cause, but they're searching and seizing AND touching peoples' body parts. It is wrong! (And ineffective besides.)

 

[Renee750il]

I'd much rather have a dog stick stick his nose in my crotch than a TSA agent.

OMFG!!!! *chokes laughing*

 

[Doberluv]

Heh, heh, heh...

 

[noludoru]

Dekka...a lot of that is nonsense. pure and simple. ' pat down leaves man in urine'..I can't even begin to say how ridiculous that example is. I don't care about people that sensitive....THEY SHOULDN'T FLY. the other examples.....again, drama. I get that you are trying to make your point. you did. I get your objection, and that's your problem. as I said if you bothered to read it.......agree to disagree sometimes.

You are a really, really awful example of a human being.

[snip]I said......it's SOMETHING to TRY and keep you crybabies safe. you don't like it? great. then submit something amazing to replace it instead of whining about it or being dramatic.

Dekka...I only have mature discussions. you want to argue, so I won't respond.

In addition to that I'd like to add that you've been the only poster calling names or being disrespectful, and one of the few people in the thread who has been rude. It's shameful when a mod is acting like that and the members aren't. But me pointing that out is probably going to be met with accusations that I just didn't read your post or that I'm a crybaby/whiner/etc.


Anyway, on the actual topic, I could quote Lil, Dekka, Romy, and Breeze and :hail: hail all of your posts, but I wont. They were awesome.

Slightly off the topic, I keep seeing this thread title and thinking of this graphic:

TSA agents need new uniforms.

 

[Doberluv]

Debi, there are people who have been raped, molested as children and generally terrorized. Can you not empathize that this would be a real trigger for extreme anxiety? Children are taught by their parents that they do not have to allow ANYONE to touch them and what kind of touch is inappropriate. They try to train their children that they do NOT have to "obey" adults when they attempt to touch them in a way that makes them uncomfortable. Can you imagine what goes through a little child's mind at times like these? What are parents suppose to do when they must allow some perfect stranger to touch them all over? This confusion to a child can have traumatic results. It undermines their lessons they've learned to keep themselves safe.

Do you really feel that the man whose bladder bag burst and leaked all over his clothes where he had to ride the flight drenched in urine? Do you not believe it or something? It's in the news! Do you seriously have no compassion for this man? Or the man with the prosthetic device who had his pants taken off right in front of everyone?

These violations of human rights do not stop terrorism. This giving away our 4th amendment rights IS the terrorism. Somebody got a gun through, even with all that touching, scanning, poking and prodding. How is that working for you?

 

[LauraLeigh]

Just read this whole thread, and I am saddened by the "Just don't fly" attitude from Debi…

So people with legitimate reasons for this to be upsetting, disabilities, abuse, rape etc should just not fly?!? Wow……

I have to say, and I don't share this lightly, I have been through something that makes me very resistant to the idea of being touched by perfect strangers, esp. if they had a specific look… I can't help it… It may sound strange but I would rather go in a private room and undress to prove I am bomb free, than have a stranger actually touch me… It causes extreme anxiety for me, and I mean intensely extreme, more when I am touched without expecting it, but a pat down would be extremely invasive to me… While it may not bother others at all….

I would struggle through, and deal with it without being upset… If it was making a darn bit of difference… However it has been pointed out, with links as backup, over and over again, that it just is not necessary and wands and other security measures work as they are supposed to!

This thread has made me nervous about my flight to Vegas in June…. I transfer planes each way so will go through TSA security three times….

 

[Renee750il]

I've never been sexually assaulted and don't have any excessive phobias about being touched in general and I found being patted down to talk to my clients at the jail degrading. I don't think I can begin to imagine how it would feel to someone who had been through that kind of traumatic experience.

Besides, it's just WRONG and no amount of rationalizing or fear mongering changes that. Sometimes you have to stand up and say, "THAT'S WRONG" just because it is.

 

[Doberluv]

I think it would be great if some people who weren't modest AT ALL would wear those transparent illusion clothes...that look like you're not wearin' notin' to the airport. Or get a whole nudist colony to stroll into the airport. They're not ashamed, modest or embarrassed or uncomfortable about being nekkid. They could show those TSA agents up. "Okay...here we are, ready for the grope. We came prepared so you wouldn't have so much work." LOL.

 

[noludoru]

The problem is, that will get them arrested.

 

[noludoru]

Otherwise, I think the idea is awesome.

I'm half tempted to go in undies and a bra.

 

[Renee750il]

The problem is, that will get them arrested.

And groped twice.

 

[Sit Stay]

Okay only on page 9 here but I have to post. It's absolutely laughable that Dekka is being called immature. She's posted intelligent, well written and well thought out posts. She is not being emotional or calling anyone names. She's posted real articles and cases to back up her point of view. I haven't seen anyone else do that. Whether you agree or not, it's just ridiculous to say she's being immature or looking for an argument.

FTR - I too wouldn't consider the case in the OP groping. Is it over the top? Yes. But the person doing the pat was very nice about it, explained what she was doing to the child and parent, and other than the waistband which I'm a bit iffy about it didn't seem like a huge invasion to me (although I recognize how it could be to others). I will be flying either into or out of the States this summer and I would not object to a simple search like that. The cases Dekka has posted are a downright shame and I feel horrible for the victims. I also wonder how far they'll take this in the future.

 

[Dani]

The ineffectiveness of the patdowns alone is enough to make it objectable. The damage caused by cases of incompetence and insensitivity just drive the point home.

I'm Canadian, though. Whatever happens with Gropey Southern Neighbour, stays with Gropey Southern Neighbour.

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

The ineffectiveness of the patdowns alone is enough to make it objectable. The damage caused by cases of incompetence and insensitivity just drive the point home.

I'm Canadian, though. Whatever happens with Gropey Southern Neighbour, stays with Gropey Southern Neighbour.

I am Canadian too but am going to NY this summer... Should I be worried? :yikes:

 

[Lilavati]

I am Canadian too but am going to NY this summer... Should I be worried? :yikes:

Only if you fly. So far, that's the only place we grope, unless you get arrested. DON'T GET ARRESTED.

I referred to it as groping in my original post, not because I thought the TSA agent was being "bad" (beyond the fact that she hasn't quit) but because I consider being touched like that "groping" regardless of how pleasant the person is about it. A touch of hyperbole perhaps.

 

[release the hounds]

Otherwise, I think the idea is awesome.

I'm half tempted to go in undies and a bra.

Didn't a guy do that and get arrested? I thought he stripped down to his undies cause he didn't want to be scanned or be patted down.

so he took all his clothes off, put them thru the scanner and put his arms away from his body, and they were making him put his clothes back on so they could pat him down.

It was retarded, but I think he may have gotten arrested for that



and on the issue of dogs, I think it's a money and numbers problem. There's no doubt someone has friends in the gov't, so I don't see the TSA going anywhere anytime soon. Sniffing for dogs is hard work. They can run longer than they can use their noses, so you have to have a good number for a large airport if you're sniffing bags and people.

Then you have to find these dogs and considering the police and military seem to be at a shortage sometimes, since we have other "options" as ridiculous as they are, the dogs dont' go to the airports. It wasn't too long ago, the military was asking for donations of civilian dogs that were of a certain age to come in and be tested for possible bomb or patrol training for the military.

 

[GipsyQueen]

I know this thread has been outdated - but I do need to ask.

GROPING? Groping? and again GROPING? How do you see a PAT DOWN as GROPING?
I was at the airport yesterday, and I got to go through that wonderfull little machine that thinks I am made out of metal because I could go through in my underwear, and then thing would beep.
So here goes little old me, I get to do the bird and get the "pat" down. The lady hardly even HOVERED over my body. My lower theighs and such touched, but it was barely groping. She barely touched my boobs. I was in NO WAY violated. I have flown in Germany, and in the USA and in England. And no where was I ever GROPED.
I had a pat down as a 6 year old prior to 9/11 - it was a random pat down just cause. Did my parents throw a hissy fit? NO. Did I start crying and call wolf? NO.

Sorry but calling it groping? Groping would be squeezing my butt and touching my boobs for more the 30 seconds. But a simple pat down, where the HOVER over your body, thats hardly groping.

I will continue to fly, thank you very much. There are different thing while flying that bother me much more. The complementary touching of you body, is not one of my problems while flying.

Sorry. Just had to get the GROPING? siriously? out.


Edit: Yes, while we are at it, my post may have been immature (but, I am still going GROPING?).

 

[Lilavati]

They don't hover any more. Admittedly, they don't grab your butt, but they actually touch you and they are supposed to stick their hand in your crotch (and other places too) and press until they make contact.

 

[Saeleofu]

I have been sexually abused in the past and I have autism which results in sensory issues as well. Sorry, but touching me - especially in certain areas - is NOT OKAY. My brother can attest to this after sneaking up on me and tapping me - I kicked backwards and he got hit in a special place...more than once :rofl1:

I don't care if it's just a few seconds or if it's an hour, it's not okay.

Besides, this stuff isn't really that awesome. I have a friend that accidentally got a pocket knife through security. She was scanned AND had a pat down, and the knife made it through. She didn't risk it a second time - left it with a friend where she was visiting and they mailed it back to her. If that can slip through security, what exactly are these pat downs and body scans catching?