What the kennel property was used for.

[~Jessie~]

My feelings are irrelevent. I am simply stating the legal aspect and facts.
Take your bait elsewhere.

And no, I'm not using any bait. The few posts you have made have been in the defense of a pretty obvious puppymill. I was asking an honest question.

 

[smkie]

Good! I hope so for i plan to continue everytime i see one.
I am glad you posted the link for i didn't know that, but i had kept my signs stating puppymillers, not using a specific name, don't want trouble, just want the pain for the dogs to stop.

 

[cockerchaos]

And no, I'm not using any bait. The few posts you have made have been in the defense of a pretty obvious puppymill. I was asking an honest question.

You 'assumed' I was defending it...I never 'stated' my opinion one way or the other. I said before and I will say again that I will only state fact and the legal aspects surrounding this issue and the sources if needed. And that is all I have done.
I will tell you my reason for doing so though because I do find that relevent to this. It is because ultimately a lot of what is going on now with BSL and legislation pertaining to breeding restrictions will eventually affect everyone ,including the responsible breeders, whether intentional or not.

 

[savethebulliedbreeds]

The way it is coming across is that because it is law you are saying it is alright.

 

[InLimbo87]

After taking a look closer at that law, it seems that lawful protest against puppy mills and the like is still allowed.

`(3) the term `economic damage'--

`(A) means the replacement costs of lost or damaged property or records, the costs of repeating an interrupted or invalidated experiment, the loss of profits, or increased costs, including losses and increased costs resulting from threats, acts or vandalism, property damage, trespass, harassment, or intimidation taken against a person or entity on account of that person's or entity's connection to, relationship with, or transactions with the animal enterprise; but

`(B) does not include any lawful economic disruption (including a lawful boycott) that results from lawful public, governmental, or business reaction to the disclosure of information about an animal enterprise

 

[InLimbo87]

To me, it doesn't look like the law was aimed at public demonstrations, but rather at PETA style attacks (which could very well be construed as terrorism in many instances)

 

[noludoru]

Okay I have to jump in with a completely pointless something here..... InLimbo, did you just steal one of Jessie's signatures or are you her fiance? If so, pleased to meet you.

 

[Beanie]

Agreed - I read the law as referring to things like threatening to harm the store owner or the store itself, or actually doing so... not as actually being against "protesting." It's a little frightening, but not at all as bad as it initially sounds...

 

[InLimbo87]

Okay I have to jump in with a completely pointless something here..... InLimbo, did you just steal one of Jessie's signatures or are you her fiance? If so, pleased to meet you.

Hmm I guess the answer to that is both! Pleased to meet you to

She finally converted me to chaz, I was doomed all along.

 

[noludoru]

Hmm I guess the answer to that is both! Pleased to meet you to

She finally converted me to chaz, I was doomed all along.

Muahahaha we knew it was only a matter of time. opcorn:

Now, everyone may carry on and I promise I won't post something pointless again. Unless it's really tempting. Really really tempting.

 

[savethebulliedbreeds]

InLimbo....you will be addicted in no time.

It is awesome that you joined. Welcome!

 

[houndlove]

Wow. I'm amazed that people actually think that if something is legal that means it's ethical. Once upon a time, slavery was legal. Doesn't mean it was ever ethical.

 

[FrenchKissed]

Just because it is your preferred method of housing your own dogs does not make it ethical.

My preferred method of housing my dogs are large exercise yards, 30x60 and having indoor stalls in my grooming room, with a cot, rug, and toys. My chin don't go outside, except on rare occasions they go into a ground covered court yard, they prefer sleeping on the couch.
The only time I use a raised pen for puppies are those first going out and I have a raised playyard (10x12 and 6inches off the ground)). The flooring is PVC not wire.
Our local animal shelter and AC is so impressed with how well this keeps puppies clean, worm free, active, healthy, and free of external parasites that they have tried to find the funding to duplicate some of my set up.

 

[FrenchKissed]

Housing dogs has EVERYTHING to do with ethics. I don't care if everyone of someones dogs are #1 in the world. If they are kept in crap like that, that person is as disgusting as a puppymiller.

What I find interesting is all focus is put on the outside of the building with the raised runs? What about the inside part of those runs, in the climate controlled building? What about the large exercise areas, the 10x40 or something like that that are on the ground. So now individual pens classify you as a puppymill. So, that means anyone with a fenced yard could qualify.

 

[FrenchKissed]

How you house your dogs has nothing to do with ethics? Phew, guess I can go right on ahead and lock these guys in the basement for the rest of their lives! That sounds totally ethical, right?

There are plenty of basements that have been finished and made into very nice household additions. If it is alright to condem your teenagers or mother-in-laws to such torture...why not the dog? I am sure they won't mind having to only watch the 21 inch TV.

The point is, how you make a place is what it will be. If you had a 70x100 foot fenced back yard, never scooped the poop, threw trash and debris, and had dangerous fixtures that could cause injuries, then that yard would not be suitable for any dog, even a rescue dog, to live in.
A yard, identical in size, in a different place might be seen as a doggy haven.
Now how can the actions of one irresponsible individual be applied to the actions of all other dog owners, who might have similar fenced yard. Are all the others suddenly irresponsible and unethical because of the actions of one person down the road?
How logical is that?

 

[FrenchKissed]

Wow. I'm amazed that people actually think that if something is legal that means it's ethical. Once upon a time, slavery was legal. Doesn't mean it was ever ethical.

So does that mean you think that Gay marriages should be banned, biracial couples, out of welock children, the death penalty, that we should all have to fall under the same religion. To some people many of these ideaologies have only one *ethically* correct answer...but many people (and I am sure some are even on this board) are extremely fortunate that it is not illegal.

 

[savethebulliedbreeds]

This board is AGAINST anything puppymill.

Can I ask how many dogs you have French?

Anyone that uses that type of style of setup is absolutely a puppymill. Oh and you can be a puppy mill even if it IS clean.

Why are you defending that property.

 

[Raven2]

Why bother asking her she will just continue to say cages like that are fine.

 

[savethebulliedbreeds]

Yeah true enough.

 

[jess2416]

So does that mean you think that Gay marriages should be banned, biracial couples, out of wedlock children, the death penalty, that we should all have to fall under the same religion. To some people many of these ideologies have only one *ethically* correct answer...but many people (and I am sure some are even on this board) are extremely fortunate that it is not illegal.

What does that have to do with puppymills and BYBer's???

people can make their own choices, whether they are right or wrong it doesnt matter in the end they will be the ones to deal with the consequences..

dogs on the other hand CANT make their own choices, but they still have to deal with the consequences..

Thats my .04 cents and Im done