What is your major malfuction?!?!
- Thread starter Lilavati
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If this were one incident, maybe... But Sandusky has been charged with sexually abusing 8 boys over a period of 15 years. I'm gonna say that if someone said "hey, Jerry's acting pretty weird around those 2nd mile kids", I'd keep my eyes and ears open. 15 years is a lot of years to look away, a lot of years to not check back with your boss and say "uh... did you look in to that rumor I told you about? If Paterno knew enough to feel like he needed to go to his superiors with information that could potentially ruin his good friend, his right hand man, then he KNEW. That's my take at least. And he didn't do anything other than try to cover his own ass, he didn't try to protect those boys. That may not be illegal, but its morally disgusting.
As for Sandusky, I won't even talk about him because I'll blow up my keyboard. The fact that his targets were troubled boys... ugh... I can't go there...
As for Sandusky, I won't even talk about him because I'll blow up my keyboard. The fact that his targets were troubled boys... ugh... I can't go there...
This is what bothers me about it. And it wasn't like the guy who made the accusation, McQeary, was some summer assistant who they never heard from again. He was someone who they knew well, who they continued to work with. So there are Paterno and McQeary, watching this guy come and go for years, working with kids, and neither one of them ever checks back or says anything.
And I don't blame Paterno for the rioting either. I blame the college students. That really isn't his fault.
I will say this. As RTH pointed out, I don't know what I would have done in McQaery's place (though at 28, he's no boy, he's a grown man with a grown man's obligations). I know what I hope I would have done, what I think I would have done.
But I'm pretty darn sure that now, at nearly 35, if a trusted subordinate came me and told me they'd seen something like that at the firm, I'd raise hell. (starting with telling the subordinate . . . call the f-ing police right the f now) Because the alternatives there are that the subordinate is lying (which means they are crazy, and if I trust them, they aren't crazy) or that someone is raping kids in the bathroom. The second alternative is absolutely unacceptable.
And I don't blame Paterno for the rioting either. I blame the college students. That really isn't his fault.
I will say this. As RTH pointed out, I don't know what I would have done in McQaery's place (though at 28, he's no boy, he's a grown man with a grown man's obligations). I know what I hope I would have done, what I think I would have done.
But I'm pretty darn sure that now, at nearly 35, if a trusted subordinate came me and told me they'd seen something like that at the firm, I'd raise hell. (starting with telling the subordinate . . . call the f-ing police right the f now) Because the alternatives there are that the subordinate is lying (which means they are crazy, and if I trust them, they aren't crazy) or that someone is raping kids in the bathroom. The second alternative is absolutely unacceptable.
2nd Mile Foundation may find itself under a big ol' black cloud:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...dation-grew-as-sex-allegations-persisted.html
http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2011/11/6/2541500/jerry-sandusky-allegations-and-obligations
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...dation-grew-as-sex-allegations-persisted.html
http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2011/11/6/2541500/jerry-sandusky-allegations-and-obligations
I'm not going to read all these pages, but...
At my college, a German Professor exposed himself to a mother and her 17 year old daughter in a Market Basket parking lot, and was convicted of it. The administration wanted him gone, but an arbitrator deemed that while his actions were not moral, they weren't "of a grave order" so he was allowed to keep his job. All the students I have talked to about it are pissed, and don't want our school associated with this. The Sexual Harassment and Rape Prevention Program on campus is pissed, and the student newspaper has followed the story and wants him gone. Hell, the administration wanted him gone.
I'm surprised anyone could riot on behalf of someone who covered up molestation, especially since my school had the entire opposite reaction.
At my college, a German Professor exposed himself to a mother and her 17 year old daughter in a Market Basket parking lot, and was convicted of it. The administration wanted him gone, but an arbitrator deemed that while his actions were not moral, they weren't "of a grave order" so he was allowed to keep his job. All the students I have talked to about it are pissed, and don't want our school associated with this. The Sexual Harassment and Rape Prevention Program on campus is pissed, and the student newspaper has followed the story and wants him gone. Hell, the administration wanted him gone.
I'm surprised anyone could riot on behalf of someone who covered up molestation, especially since my school had the entire opposite reaction.
Commentary worth reading, especially the part about what one should do and cowardice:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/11/10/omelas-state-university/
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/11/10/omelas-state-university/
most amazing media spin ever. first ...I'm not a Penn State fan, we're a Pitt school here. that said...say all you will about the evil of Paterno. (and I'm not reading it all) you have your minds all set morally correct with conviction! now the 'spin'. Penn State has been trying to get rid of Paterno for years. dude just wouldn't leave! suddenly...there is a juicey story. (oh don't 'go there'. I HATE what happened to those children as much as any body) they decide to toss the old guy out to the media. fabulous! it's suddenly 'the Joe Paterno show'. and the heat is off the stupid jerks that dropped the ball after Paterno reported it. no sweat. he's an old dude at the end of his career...this is media manipulation at it's living best. if you for one minute allow yourself to step off the Paterno bashing wagon........the entire school board is to blame. the jerk McQeary (sp?) is to blame. the most evil Sandusky is to blame. who do you all dwell on......the fish tossed out there...Paterno. paleese. some old dude set up for media sacrifice, and you all fell for it. hook, line, sinker. manipulation spin at it's best.
now..you're Paterno. say you go to the police. I'd challenge anyone to come here ..walk in to any police station ..and say, 'I heard something'. see what that gets you. nothing. they can't act on that. they need the actual witness to make a statement. so he does next best thing and reports it to a higher power. a mother made a complaint to the police department and it was 'closed'. now...what the heck do you do? if you aren't a Penn State grad that was in the thick of things...don't live in the area.....you read all those media reports and buy it. hook. line. sinker.
No, what you do if you are Paterno is that you urge your inferior, who IS a witness, to report it to the police. Indeed, you make it clear that that is a condition of his continued employment if he refuses to do so. If your superiors cover it up, you refuse to cooperate. You are, as everyone keeps pointing out, famous and virtually deified by the community.
Further more, if that failed, people are rioting in support of this man. Don't you think that if he had gone to the police and alleged a cover up of child rape by the university, that they would have listened to him?
I see this as pretty simple. A man that you know very well comes to you and says that he saw a colleague (about which there have been rumors of this sort) engaged in anal sex with a 10 year old boy in the showers. Now, there are two things you can do here. You can believe the allegation, or not. If you believe it, then the accused is a very sick person, who you presumably want nowhere near children, nowhere near campus, and probably, nowhere near you. You cannot believe the allegation, at which point the person making that allegation is a liar of the worst sort, making horrific allegations about the innocent. At which point you don't want him anywhere near your organization, or anywhere near you.
Or, you keep working an associating with both accuser and accused for a number of more years, apparently without concern. This means that you are 1) in profound denial, 2) are not disturbed by the allegations (or that they might be made falsely), 3) a raving coward, or 4) all of the above.
Further more, if that failed, people are rioting in support of this man. Don't you think that if he had gone to the police and alleged a cover up of child rape by the university, that they would have listened to him?
I see this as pretty simple. A man that you know very well comes to you and says that he saw a colleague (about which there have been rumors of this sort) engaged in anal sex with a 10 year old boy in the showers. Now, there are two things you can do here. You can believe the allegation, or not. If you believe it, then the accused is a very sick person, who you presumably want nowhere near children, nowhere near campus, and probably, nowhere near you. You cannot believe the allegation, at which point the person making that allegation is a liar of the worst sort, making horrific allegations about the innocent. At which point you don't want him anywhere near your organization, or anywhere near you.
Or, you keep working an associating with both accuser and accused for a number of more years, apparently without concern. This means that you are 1) in profound denial, 2) are not disturbed by the allegations (or that they might be made falsely), 3) a raving coward, or 4) all of the above.
countless people have walked by women being murdered and stabbed in courtyards, never paying attention or even picking up a phone to call 911 anonymously, people have walked by dying people on the streets and don't even look, let alone help. Just a month ago, I was in a restaruant with my wife when the guy sitting next to us at the bar (seats were full) went unconcious.
We had been talking to him a minute prior and then his face was in his food and he was falling out of his chair. I jumped up and got him before he went all the way down, the next 5 minutes were spent trying to get someone to get off their asses to help me get the man to the floor so he could breath easier after I checked his vitals.
The man was sweating profusely, in and out of conciousness, wasn't drinking, just eating, did not have diabetes (his wife was there next to him) and it took to the point of getting mad at people to get up and help. The manager didn't want to call the ambulance, and made me take responsibility for the call and verify and confirm with him before I yelled to just ****ing call.
There were hundreds in a busy restaraunt, and I was lucky to get 2 to get up and help. Thankfully a nurse on the other side finally got up, and told her husband to get over and help lower him to the ground.
So i've heard how people will say they'll do this and do that and respond in a certain way and in the end, it's a bunch of bullshit. They'll most likely be like the majority of people and hope what they are witnessing isn't real, hope it is a joke, hope things aren't really this bad, and they will ignore, move on, and try to distance themselves and sit and tell people around them how "they'd do things" all the while doing nothing.
We had been talking to him a minute prior and then his face was in his food and he was falling out of his chair. I jumped up and got him before he went all the way down, the next 5 minutes were spent trying to get someone to get off their asses to help me get the man to the floor so he could breath easier after I checked his vitals.
The man was sweating profusely, in and out of conciousness, wasn't drinking, just eating, did not have diabetes (his wife was there next to him) and it took to the point of getting mad at people to get up and help. The manager didn't want to call the ambulance, and made me take responsibility for the call and verify and confirm with him before I yelled to just ****ing call.
There were hundreds in a busy restaraunt, and I was lucky to get 2 to get up and help. Thankfully a nurse on the other side finally got up, and told her husband to get over and help lower him to the ground.
So i've heard how people will say they'll do this and do that and respond in a certain way and in the end, it's a bunch of bullshit. They'll most likely be like the majority of people and hope what they are witnessing isn't real, hope it is a joke, hope things aren't really this bad, and they will ignore, move on, and try to distance themselves and sit and tell people around them how "they'd do things" all the while doing nothing.
That's why I said that I don't know for certain what I would do in McQaery's position. I don't. I know what I'd hope I'd do. But its possible that I might be too shocked, or too overwhelmed, or too frightened. I don't claim to be particularly brave. But I hope that having heard of horrors where people did nothing my whole life, that I would have the courage to do something.
However, I am pretty sure what I'd do in Paterno's position, and I'll tell you why. Because, not only is it the right thing to do, the only moral thing to do, its also in my self interest. Things like this always come out. Always. And when they do, everyone who knew is in deep, deep crap. So, not only would I do it because to do otherwise is completely wrong, I'd do it because that's the right thing to do for my employer and myself. So, in Paterno's position, I'd raise hell . . because it would not only be wrong not to (and it would be very, very wrong), it would be stupid. Can I be sure of what I would do? No. I don't think anyone can be. And its sort of a nightmare situation.
I'll also observe that this is not a case of the bystander effect (which is what you saw in the restaurant), except perhaps to the extent that McQuery did not immediately intervene. Ok, fine, he was too shocked, and he didn't know what do to, so he left and called his father. I can believe that, actually. He was just totally flummoxed, and he called the person he trusted most for help. Not brave, not noble, but human.
But then he told. He told a number of people. None of whom did anything. None of whom told him to call the police for Christ's sake. That's not the bystander effect, that's a cover up.
However, I am pretty sure what I'd do in Paterno's position, and I'll tell you why. Because, not only is it the right thing to do, the only moral thing to do, its also in my self interest. Things like this always come out. Always. And when they do, everyone who knew is in deep, deep crap. So, not only would I do it because to do otherwise is completely wrong, I'd do it because that's the right thing to do for my employer and myself. So, in Paterno's position, I'd raise hell . . because it would not only be wrong not to (and it would be very, very wrong), it would be stupid. Can I be sure of what I would do? No. I don't think anyone can be. And its sort of a nightmare situation.
I'll also observe that this is not a case of the bystander effect (which is what you saw in the restaurant), except perhaps to the extent that McQuery did not immediately intervene. Ok, fine, he was too shocked, and he didn't know what do to, so he left and called his father. I can believe that, actually. He was just totally flummoxed, and he called the person he trusted most for help. Not brave, not noble, but human.
But then he told. He told a number of people. None of whom did anything. None of whom told him to call the police for Christ's sake. That's not the bystander effect, that's a cover up.
I love your insight to a situation in hindsight. the stupid man that witnessed the rape should have called the police. they would only listen to HIM. anyone one else that called to say they 'heard of something'. nada. police don't do anything (hey..maybe that's just here and not where you live) unless it's an actual witness. now...go ahead and blame Paterno, cause that's the media hype and all. the goof that didn't report it is the person to blame here. but again..he's not all amazing for a good hype story. but I don't want to take away from your anger. I have anger in this situation, too. I just put it where it belongs and not where the media decided I should.