puppy genders
- Thread starter KayleeBby
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Yeah, I'm sorry but 3 hours is not what I consider to be an unreasonable trip for a dog that will be your companion for hopefully the next 12+ years. I traveled that far to visit Quinn/decide if I even wanted a puppy from that litter, and again to pick Quinn up. I've driven that far, and further, many many times to go to horseshows or clinics (even just to spectate), and to try out horses for sale. Last month I drove that far for an annual tent sale. I was planning on driving twice that far and going across the border to attend an English Shepherd meet. I don't mean to belittle it - it is a long drive, but it's a long drive with a good purpose.
I drove 6 hours to deliver my foster chi to his new home. I flew halfway across the country to get Logan (granted he was from a breeder, but from a REPUTABLE breeder). People who really care and want the right dogs are wiling to travel, even for a rescue. People who just want dogs handed to them get whatever dog just because it's a dog and is there at the time...even a BYB pup or 2.
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I just drove almost three hours each way to deliver my foster to her new home, AND her new owner did the same.
My concerns about this puppy would be
1) this woman can't tell the gender of a PUPPY, how is she supposed to be intelligent enough to know how to feed, socialize, and medically care for one? This puppy might seem healthy, but who knows what kind of damage is being done from the young age that might affect it later in life.
2) This puppy is half JRT and half bichon. It's likely to have a variety of health problems if the parents are poorly bred, untested purebreds. Blindness and knee problems are two that come to mind. Another issue is that JRTs commonly have a high prey drive. If you're not experienced in dog training and dog-to-dog interactions, what will you do if at 10 months old this puppy decides your pomeranian looks an awful lot like a fox that he wants to KILL? Are you going to be willing to separate them? Without knowing this dog's grandparents it's going to be difficult to tell how drivey it will be, and unless you have a lot of experience in socializing terriers, this may be a difficult match.
Even if this woman never breeds her dogs again, and you pay even a tiny amount for this puppy, she's going to tell all her friends she bred her dogs and found homes for them and it didn't cost her anything. They'll go and do the same. If she tells them she struggled to place the puppies and she spent a ton of money on their vaccines, she'll be a lot less likely to do this in the future, or to encourage her friends to this.
My concerns about this puppy would be
1) this woman can't tell the gender of a PUPPY, how is she supposed to be intelligent enough to know how to feed, socialize, and medically care for one? This puppy might seem healthy, but who knows what kind of damage is being done from the young age that might affect it later in life.
2) This puppy is half JRT and half bichon. It's likely to have a variety of health problems if the parents are poorly bred, untested purebreds. Blindness and knee problems are two that come to mind. Another issue is that JRTs commonly have a high prey drive. If you're not experienced in dog training and dog-to-dog interactions, what will you do if at 10 months old this puppy decides your pomeranian looks an awful lot like a fox that he wants to KILL? Are you going to be willing to separate them? Without knowing this dog's grandparents it's going to be difficult to tell how drivey it will be, and unless you have a lot of experience in socializing terriers, this may be a difficult match.
Even if this woman never breeds her dogs again, and you pay even a tiny amount for this puppy, she's going to tell all her friends she bred her dogs and found homes for them and it didn't cost her anything. They'll go and do the same. If she tells them she struggled to place the puppies and she spent a ton of money on their vaccines, she'll be a lot less likely to do this in the future, or to encourage her friends to this.
I was willing to drive 19ish hours to Oklahoma from Ontario each way for a cocker bitch I was in love with. Sadly the breeder ended up being someone I don't think I'd want to be stuck with for life, who told me the puppy was not right for me but here I have 10 others to pick from.
Not being right for me was fine, but pushing a bunch of others was skeazy. The right dog is worth the drive.
Not being right for me was fine, but pushing a bunch of others was skeazy. The right dog is worth the drive.
I agree that 3-ish hours isn't a long drive to pick up a puppy. Just as an example, I traveled six hours one way (twelve hours in the car round trip) to get to herding with my puppy. And that was just for her instinct test.
I'll be making that drive again in a little over two weeks to get back for a stock work clinic. So yeah...I don't see that as an unreasonable distance to drive at all.
I'll be making that drive again in a little over two weeks to get back for a stock work clinic. So yeah...I don't see that as an unreasonable distance to drive at all.
Yeah distance really isn't an object for me either. Roadtrips make for memories anyways... but it is possible if she is that far out the shelter isn't going to have a small breed puppy anyways, and won't get for for a long time. Even if she is close to a big city that's no guarantee that there will be a small-breed pup there (I believe a few have stated on Chaz that puppies, forget about small breed puppies, regular puppies, are rarely in rescue and when they are in, you have to compete for them because there are so many apps).
Maybe a transport could be arranged in her location, I don't know, but then she'd be getting a puppy she'd never met. I'm pretty sure I want to meet all of my future dogs and select them myself, I don't think that's unreasonable.
A mix from a shelter is a gamble because you usually know nothing about the parents, in this situation she can at least know the parents' temperaments, that is actually a pretty huge perk. If they are older she may even have an idea of their health but I do doubt that is the case (well I guess even if they're young she'd know that they aren't falling apart at 2 or 4 years old or w/e, small comfort I know but better than nothing).
Just in case someone read that as "wow, getting a puppy from this source at this time in your life is a great idea" That is not what I am saying. All I am trying to say is that depending on a person's situation, it may not be totally obvious to go to lengths to get a rescue dog as opposed to getting a puppy from a litter of a relative. And maybe people shouldn't jump all over someone and chase them away, because that doesn't do much good for anyone. Possibly a better alternative could be worked out for this person and I would be interested to know why they won't consider it.
Maybe a transport could be arranged in her location, I don't know, but then she'd be getting a puppy she'd never met. I'm pretty sure I want to meet all of my future dogs and select them myself, I don't think that's unreasonable.
A mix from a shelter is a gamble because you usually know nothing about the parents, in this situation she can at least know the parents' temperaments, that is actually a pretty huge perk. If they are older she may even have an idea of their health but I do doubt that is the case (well I guess even if they're young she'd know that they aren't falling apart at 2 or 4 years old or w/e, small comfort I know but better than nothing).
Just in case someone read that as "wow, getting a puppy from this source at this time in your life is a great idea" That is not what I am saying. All I am trying to say is that depending on a person's situation, it may not be totally obvious to go to lengths to get a rescue dog as opposed to getting a puppy from a litter of a relative. And maybe people shouldn't jump all over someone and chase them away, because that doesn't do much good for anyone. Possibly a better alternative could be worked out for this person and I would be interested to know why they won't consider it.
I don't think its mostly the issue of getting a second dog to most, its choosing to support a byb thats getting people. If they want a small breed dog then why not save up and buy one? Or spend the time looking for one to adopt (these pups are going to be as big of a crap shoot as any other mixed breed)
KayleeBby,
If you read this, know that we aren't trying to chase you off the forum. We aren't trying to pick on you, and the majority of us do not feel any genuine ill-will towards you.
But we love dogs. We love dogs and the way they make us feel. We love the fact that they are unique, and at the same time you can always find one for you. We love the way they love us.
We hate the way they suffer.
The majority, if not all, of us just want to prevent you from making a mistake. We want to educate you (and any others who happen across this forum), we want to spread the news of overpopulation, littermate syndrome, etc.
We are not kicking you out. We are being honest and true to our experiences, some with experience in rescue, some with breeding, some with both.
Whether or not you get this puppy is up to you, but we want you to make an informed decision at the very least.
If you read this, know that we aren't trying to chase you off the forum. We aren't trying to pick on you, and the majority of us do not feel any genuine ill-will towards you.
But we love dogs. We love dogs and the way they make us feel. We love the fact that they are unique, and at the same time you can always find one for you. We love the way they love us.
We hate the way they suffer.
The majority, if not all, of us just want to prevent you from making a mistake. We want to educate you (and any others who happen across this forum), we want to spread the news of overpopulation, littermate syndrome, etc.
We are not kicking you out. We are being honest and true to our experiences, some with experience in rescue, some with breeding, some with both.
Whether or not you get this puppy is up to you, but we want you to make an informed decision at the very least.
When you adopt a dog from a shelter, the adoption fee is going towards vaccines, spay/neuter, helping other dogs, etc, etc. Look at it more as a donation. The shelters aren't producing dogs... they are cleaning up after the ones who WERE produced.
When you buy a puppy from an IRRESPONSIBLE breeder (i.e. the grandmother), you are lining their pockets. Giving someone $160 for a puppy (a mixed breed puppy at that) is showing them that they have a REASON to breed more puppies. The $160 doesn't go towards spaying/neutering the puppy to prevent more litters.
When you buy a puppy from an IRRESPONSIBLE breeder (i.e. the grandmother), you are lining their pockets. Giving someone $160 for a puppy (a mixed breed puppy at that) is showing them that they have a REASON to breed more puppies. The $160 doesn't go towards spaying/neutering the puppy to prevent more litters.
Not quite...
If you were adopting the puppy, it still might not be the best decision for your existing 10 week old puppy.
However, that would be preferable to rewarding, with cash, anybody who bred two un-health tested dogs for no other apparent reason than she felt like it, yes. It doesn't matter if it's your kid's grandmother or the Queen of England - it's irresponsible breeding.
Put yourself in her shoes. You tell her "You shouldn't breed your dogs! That's bad! Shame shame!! But I'll take one of those cute little puppies if you don't mind, thank you very much, here's $50." What do you think she hears?
If you were adopting the puppy, it still might not be the best decision for your existing 10 week old puppy.
However, that would be preferable to rewarding, with cash, anybody who bred two un-health tested dogs for no other apparent reason than she felt like it, yes. It doesn't matter if it's your kid's grandmother or the Queen of England - it's irresponsible breeding.
Put yourself in her shoes. You tell her "You shouldn't breed your dogs! That's bad! Shame shame!! But I'll take one of those cute little puppies if you don't mind, thank you very much, here's $50." What do you think she hears?