link to pictures of someone's pet bobcats and cougars

[Gustav]

Its a big dif from these people with their bob cats and cougars.

And no matter what they could say.. I don't think its fair to keep a 120 pound wild cat in a house. Now if someone was doing rigorous breeding for domesticness I would be much less offended. But that would/should drastically chance what they would look like/act like so I doubt people would be doing it.

But why is it a big difference?

Surely the people who have been breeding them in captivity for many years, have turned something that was truely wild into something that is more on the side of being feral? I'm not convinced that any animal that has been bred in captivity has the resourcefulness to actually live in a wild situation, would those cats be capable of feeding themselves, finding a mate, or living in a herd situation?

Like so many animals that are rescued, rehabilitated only to find that they have become so used to humans that they can't be re-released for their own safety.

Now I am in no way saying that I would want to own one.. I am just curious.

 

[Dekka]

It takes more than 20 generations to do that.. and it takes breeding for specific things.

Rehab is different.. you aren't creating the problem.. just trying to save a life.

As I said if people WERE breeding for domesticalability then I would have no issue (with them as pets). But if anyone is I have never heard of it (and its awfully hard on the rejects).

I would LOVE to have a fox from the Russian breeding program (that stopped due to lack of funding).. though the JRTs might not play nice.

 

[Shamus]

I would not judge the people!!!! However here are cats that are suppose to be tamed, showing wild instincts, ekkkk!!!! It's a recipe for disaster in my opinion. If they were interested in being around these cats, I would rather see them doing rehab. there is always a need for trained people to help raise or care for wildlife............Some wildlife cannot be returned to the wild, whether it is due to a broken wing or leg that will never heal, or some type of mouth injury, there are many reasons for wild animals not to be released back into the wild. I have personally witnessed a golden and bald eagle, that were both brought into rehab because of injuries, who were not able to be released because of those injuries go on to live a happy life ( as best as they could ) the golden eagle went on to a breeding rehab. ( She was used to help populate areas where her species #'s were declining ) The bald eagle ( Abby ) I was able to interact with, went on to be used for educational purposes. Abby was not used for child education, in fact children spooked her, ( use to make me laugh when she would make pig noises ) Abby was used to teach others, how to handle larger birds of prey.
Okay so I babbled a bit, however there is always a need at the rehab facilities, whether it is cleaning cages, feeding, or exercising. I just don't see the need to take a perfectly healthy wild animal ( or an animal that should or could be wild ) and keep it captive for no other reason than personal gain. Remember I am judging no one, to each their own, it's just my opinion.

 

[smkie]

Just sad.

I worked for a guy for a month that had cats like this. WHich is why i left after a month. THat and the kennel was just bad news. THis place may not be like that but it still makes me shudder.
THere are three in a wildlife museum in Springfield. THe first thing my son said when he saw them was that they were cage crazy and it was true. FOr all that pretty area they had set up, they spun in circles. I don't believe wild animals should ever be kept as pets.

 

[Dizzy]

To me this isn't much different than BSL.

You can't own it because I deem it an accident waiting to happen?

It's not like the cats are being mistreated or have known anything other than the life they have.... they're probably quite content.

 

[CaliTerp07]

To me this isn't much different than BSL.

You can't own it because I deem it an accident waiting to happen?

It's not like the cats are being mistreated or have known anything other than the life they have.... they're probably quite content.

Wasn't the monkey that ripped that woman's face off a few months ago supposedly a captively bred, content wild animal too?

 

[smkie]

Wonder if they become restless like wild creatures do when they reach maturity? Or would neutering change that? My first squirrel before i knew better did just that. Happyy as a clam all through babyhood but once she matured it was to lay in the window sill all day and sulk until she did finally find her way out through the dryer vent.

 

[Dekka]

To me this isn't much different than BSL.

You can't own it because I deem it an accident waiting to happen?

It's not like the cats are being mistreated or have known anything other than the life they have.... they're probably quite content.

Thats really sad. That you equate hype with real danger. The breeds on BSL lists are never any more 'dangerous' than any other DOMESTIC dog. Wild animals on the other hand.. even when raised domestically DO pose an increased risk.

Also dogs WANT to live with humans (as a species) wild animals don't.

 

[Dizzy]

Wasn't the monkey that ripped that woman's face off a few months ago supposedly a captively bred, content wild animal too?

Wasn't the dog that savaged that little kid meant to be domesticated?

 

[Dizzy]

Thats really sad. That you equate hype with real danger. The breeds on BSL lists are never any more 'dangerous' than any other DOMESTIC dog. Wild animals on the other hand.. even when raised domestically DO pose an increased risk.

Also dogs WANT to live with humans (as a species) wild animals don't.

Really?

Cats unless humanised as kittens generally don't want to live with humans.

Hence wild/feral cats.

But we insist on owning domestic cats.

All animals pose risk. I was bitten by my rat and have the scars to prove it.

I'm not encouraging keeping wild animals, I'm just questioning why you feel one is better than another.

 

[puppydog]

To me it is exactly the same as every tom dick and harry in South Africa wanting a pet lion. They get the permits, the land etc, lion eats someone because said lion is WILD no matter what, lion gets shot. Fun all round.
I don't like it, they are wild and those people are asking for trouble.

 

[Dekka]

If you handle a feral cat and socialize it and then let it go... they stick around (have done it lots around the farm) Raising wild animals and letting them go.. they tend to leave. (some do stay.. but they are in the minority)

Same with horses. An unhandled horse will run in fear and be 'wild' but if you handle that horse it will become friendly. Even a mature feral domestic animal can be socialized fairly easily, though not as well as if done when younger. A wild animal is almost impossible to socialize after maturity.

 

[Shamus]

A good rehab center strives to make it so the animals don't become bored, either by hiding their food, so it is a hide and seek game with a big reward in the end, or play toys that mimic things the animal would find in the wild. Most animals end up in rehab due to injury, and are being rehabilitated to be released or being used for re-population or education of their species. Not the ideal situation for any wild animal, but it is making the best of a bad situation.

Question is why would anyone want to have an animal that is perdominatly wild, if it isn't for selfish reasons? ( I know I will get blasted for that one, I'm not attacking just asking, please keep that in mind ) What other purpose other than rehab would their be for keeping a wild animal and trying to change who and what they are?

 

[Fran101]

I think the laws should be A LOT more strict with owning them. i dont understand for the LIFE of me why people want them as pets but if they do, a few things should be a GIVEN

- safe enclosure with atleast 1/2 acre

- a safe distance away from neighbors, especially those with pets/small children

- a license and some knowledge about the animal they want/its care

- animals must be spayed/neutered unless the person shows they have what it takes to handle not just 1, but 2+ of these animals. that includes more enclosures and MORE SPACE

- Person should have to visit a rehab center where they take in wild animals that were once "pets" and talk to the people who run it about what it REALLY takes to own one of these creatures


..I never would own a wild animal as a pet. i think they are beautiful, but Id much prefer to see them truly happy in the wild

 

[FoxyWench]

diz...
ive WORKED with these animals...
the ones i worked with were "captive bred" most raised by bottle from kitten hood and handled daily, they were heavily mentally stimulated in a zoo environment with encolsures (while small) best matched for their natural behaviours, (trees to climb, their own fishing holes ect.
even in the best of situations as sexual maturity kicks in (even when neutered) they are unpredicatble (just like ALL cats can be) and HIGHLY tempermental.

but my biggest problem with this whole thing...
if your going to keep a WILD animal as a pet...you need to be able to take on the WHOLE animal...
if the only way you feel its safe to keep them in your home is to chop off their toes (ive talked with these owners via email in the past, they DECLAW all their wild cats!) then you shouldnt be owning them.

(i dont agree with declawing ANY cat, they need their claws to stretch correctly and they are a huige part of a cats "identity" using them to mark teritory, defense ect)

when you declaw an animal that is for all instincts a WILD animal, that is ridiculous. if you cant handle the animal claws and all your not ready to keep that animal as a pet...

i feel the same way with domestic cats, i dont agree with declawing, debarking or defanging!

and CALI you made the point i was actually going to make.
that poor chimp was KILLED for its owners stupidity...he was from a 50 generation breeding captive breeding program from a "PET" breeder, he was bottle raised (and was "Defanged, they had his canines tipped and capped so if he did bite it wouldnt do as much damage, didnt do much good did it?!)
he slept in the bed, ate at the table, and he was no BABY, he was a MATURE adult chimp in his 20's.
all it took was for him to have 1 bad day and he became devastating and lost his life for it.
"oh its just like BSL" no its realy not, the dogs on the BSL list are there 1: because of media misconceptions and 2: because of bad owners/breeders. most of the breeds on the bsl are no more agressive than any other breed by nature...

these "exotic animals" however are nothing like it...they dont "become agressive" simply because theyve been trained to be or badly handled, they simply turn, maturity hits, or something clicks or they just have a bad day...and when they do...

do you know how many of these animals end up in sanctuaries because they "suddenly" became agressive or "unpredictable"? theres not enough sanctuaries to take them all. everything from primates to big cats to wolf hybrids ect.
theres so many "rejected exotic pets" that many are put to sleep, theres simply not enough room for them all when they pass the point of cute or the novelty of having something so exotic that is trying to bite your hand off every time you play...

ive been tackled by a 30lb bob cat, belive me, if your not properly braced your on the ground, and even when simply playing the bob cats natural grip is on the throat, when playing with other big cats thats not a problem, but people have this soft incrredibly delicate skin that has a tendency to tear and bleed easily...

other exotics are a case by case basis.
rats, ive had pet rats, and i think they should ONLY be kept as pets if you can not only provide them the space but also the interaction with other rats and LOTS of time...
snakes, this is a completly different matter, keeping snakes (assuming your keeping in a large enough tank) isnt as big a deal as snakes in the wild do not "walk" for the sake of walking, they move only when nessicary, on the hunt for food...recreating a basking rock for a snake in the wild isnt the hardest job in the world...
but i also feel that keeping "monster" snakes in the wild is something that shouldnt be done by the average owner because how many people can dedicate an entire room to their giant constrictors?
same goes for lizards, smaller ones who can be given a large amount of space relitive to their size work well in captivity, they spend most of their time sunbathing anyway...
where as somehting like an adult iguana, again unless you can provide it wuth a space relitivly larg for its size, dont get one.

bob cats, and cougars ect walk for the enjoyment of it, their teritories are HUGE and not solely because of hunting, they use the space to play, mark survey.

BUT...i never said people shouldnt be allowed to have them...
what i said was NEVER be fooled into thinking they are "domesticated" or "pets" they are LARGE, UNPERDICTABLE and while "socilized" with peopel they are still wild animals and do not do well kept as some kind of house pet.
just like a chimp, lion, wolf ect doesnt do well as a house pet, neither do these guys.

*shrugs*

to each their own
BUT
dont go fooling yourself into thinking all those pictures of bobcats laying around and climbing on the people is all their life and mean that there sweet domesticated cats just like the other house cats...

i do think there needs to be stricter regulations in terms of keeping these animals in captivity (including zoos) that would mean FREQUENT inspections, minimum land and fencing requirments, caging requirments for when unsupervised ect.

my other HUGE concern with keeping these exotics as "pets"
especially liek these people who dont cage them in the home (and by cage i mean the equivalent of a dog crate) when someones not there to supervise...

what happens in case of emergency/fire...?
do you HONESTLY think most of the fire fighters in this world will willingly climb into a home to rescue 3 BOBCATS and a COUGAR?!!!? who are running LOOSE in the house no less.

lets see weve got a house filled with smoke, 3 very powerfull large cats running around, who will be frightend and on edge trying to find any way out they can...
its a disaster waiting to happen...
belive me they dont get paid enough so unless you got someone experienced/comfortable with handling exotics, there not going to climb in there to go carry these potentially DEADLY animals out...
least if they were crated, emergency services could get in there and fairly safely get them out without risk to the emergency workers...

but yeah, im rambling.

 

[Gempress]

^^^^Amen.

:hail:

We talk about genetics being such a big impact on a dog's temperament. For example, not taking a breed prone to DA to a dog park. It's the same with any other animal on the planet. Yes, the way you raise them makes a difference, but genetics still play a HUGE role.

 

[Dizzy]

^^^^Amen.

:hail:

We talk about genetics being such a big impact on a dog's temperament. For example, not taking a breed prone to DA to a dog park. It's the same with any other animal on the planet. I don't care how you raise them, they will still be what they're meant to be.

So we shouldn't own any animals?

And if you read the thread - they are not kept in the house, they have an enclosure.

The thread is 3 years old.

 

[Gempress]

So we shouldn't own any animals?

And if you read the thread - they are not kept in the house, they have an enclosure.

The thread is 3 years old.

Oops, didn't see the date! Huge difference between domestic beasties, raised and tamed for millenia, and a creature that was raised on a bottle and claimed "tame". I don't like the idea of owning large wild animals as pets.

Parrots and such? I don't have a problem with that. A persnickity parrot can't do worse than some bites....severe bites when it comes to macaws and such, but nothing life-threatening. But I draw the line on animals that can kill you.

 

[mjb]

As I said, I have done no research, so I don't KNOW anything at all about these animals' lives. I wonder if these animals are content living a life of relative confinement. They've never known anything else, but do they naturally and instinctively know they are not in the environment they were intended to be in.........do they hear the 'call of the wild'?

My main concern would not be how dangerous they can be but how content they are. I don't know if humans can know for sure. We think we can tell our dogs are happy and our cats are satisfied.

 

[Renee750il]

The thread is 3 years old.

OP in this thread is yesterday The ARTICLE linked may be that old . . .