link to pictures of someone's pet bobcats and cougars

[Laurelin]

My problem is the breeding of these animals for the pet trade. I just can't in any way make that ethical no matter how I try. Owning? Rescuing? I don't have a problem with either provided they're taken care of as best as humans possibly can. I don't think they should ever be housepets.

I've known too many people with wild animals they shouldn't have had. Maybe I'm jaded, I don't know. Where I used to live was a very ritzy place and these kinds of 'pets' were seen as the ultimate status symbol. My best friend had a monkey (it was a gift from a wealthy uncle). She tried so hard to give it what it needed but she couldn't. She was very into animals and had a decent setup for it, but it was still never 'tamed'. It bit a LOT. Eventually she had to send it to a sanctuary that could fortunately take it in. My neighbors had an indoor tiger but luckily animal control took it before it got too big. And when I was working at the shelter there we got in SEVERAL pet tigers/lions. I didn't even work there a year. It was always hard to find a place to actually take these animals because they were dangerous. Many have to be put to sleep because there is a limited number of facilities to keep them.

That's not to say people CAN'T successfully keep them. I know people that have wolfdogs that keep them well. Especially with the higher content ones though it is tough and it takes a very special, dedicated owner with the proper facilities and education in the species to do it. I have known people that were amazing with really 'hard' breeds of domestic dogs that still couldn't keep a wolf or a true wolfdog. They're just not the same. You can never call a wolf domestic, even if it's raised with people from a pup.

I also can't be happy that they must declaw all their pet big cats to make them safe. I think that's a sign that maybe you shouldn't have one in the house.

They are beautiful animals though.

 

[Dizzy]

OP in this thread is yesterday The ARTICLE linked may be that old . . .

Yes - the linked thread is three years old I mean.

The cats were babies then, apparently they live in specially constructed enclosures.

 

[Romy]

Parrots and such? I don't have a problem with that. A persnickity parrot can't do worse than some bites....severe bites when it comes to macaws and such, but nothing life-threatening. But I draw the line on animals that can kill you.

FWIW, my old boss was given a free macaw because the bird had layed open someone's forearm from wrist to elbow. That would have been life threatening anywhere on the face/neck.

BSL begins with SSL. The Arista strategy is to first ban animals that few people have, that they can skew the publics view of, and go from there. In the past, this is how BSL has come into being:

1. Monkeys and alligators
2. Big cats, bears
3. Exotic ungulates, small cats,
4. All other reptiles (snakes over 10', etc.)
5. Wolves and wolf hybrids
6. Pit bulls
7. Rotties, Dobes, GSDs
8. All other dogs and companion animals to follow.

Guess what? It's WORKING. Evidenced by the fact that we now have a slew of crappy laws banning all of the above animals and breeds of dog. You know how else I know it works?

That terrifies me...it's a ticking time bomb, in my opinion. Wild animals don't belong snuggling in someone's bed.
__________________

That's scary. I'll bet they don't get many visitors. If I knew them, I wouldn't visit, I don't trust wild animals not to act like wild animals.
__________________

I have to say, I am in the wild animals are not pets camp.
__________________

I agree. It's one thing rescuing, it's another deliberately buying from a breeder. Not a negative attitude as much as a decision I just don't agree with and something I would not participate in--they don't belong in peoples' houses IMHO.

Now replace "wild animal" with "pit bull"

1. How many of the general public think that when they see a picture of a pit bull snuggling with a baby? Quite a few.

The other three are self explanatory. We've all heard them come from ignorant people whose view on dogs has been shaped by the arista agenda. Which is why we are hearing them now. If you don't have direct experience, your ONLY experience is going to be what the ARs feed you through the media, and it's propaganda.

I STRONGLY urge anyone interested in learning more about keeping wild animals in captivity to look into this group. Join their e-mail list. I used to be a member, and they not only are devoted to fighting SSL, but BSL as well (gasp!) because unlike most people, they realize that it effects everybody's right to own animals regardless of whether they do or not.

Phoenix Exotic Wildlife Association - index

And just so you know, the vast majority of American Zoo Associations members are private individuals, and the majority of animals registered in their species/breeding database through them are in private ownership. Many exotic species who are being bred in captivity by conservators do not do well in a zoo setting where they can be ogled by the public daily, and feel less stressed and reproduce better in a private "household", "facility" whatever you want to call it. Zoos simply do not have the funding to maintain viable populations of threatened/endangered animals in captivity, and rely heavily on the private sector to pick up the slack.

I know a dude with a colony of spider monkeys, he will never make the news because he is a responsible primate owner. His monkeys, just wow. They are happy, they get their privacy, and have an enclosure that is seriously better than the monkey enclosures at both Point Defiance and Woodland park zoos. I can say the same for every big cat owner I personally know, and the grizzly bear owner as well.

I know of a caracal named Tess who worked as a therapy animal in a New York VA. She was amazingly intuitive and social. My favorite story is when Tess and her handler were in the hospital elevator, and a man was wheeled in with them. As they rode the elevator down, Tess walked over to the man and put a paw on his lap. He smiled at her, scratched her head and she visited with him for a little bit. Her handler didn't think anything of the encounter. It happens every day. Then she looked up and saw that the woman pushing the wheel chair was crying. She asked what was wrong, and the woman told her nothing was wrong. That moment was the first time she had seen her brother smile in 10 years.

It's EXACTLY like with pit bulls. You never hear about the good ones, because the good ones don't make good news.

 

[Dizzy]

FWIW, my old boss was given a free macaw because the bird had layed open someone's forearm from wrist to elbow. That would have been life threatening anywhere on the face/neck.

BSL begins with SSL. The Arista strategy is to first ban animals that few people have, that they can skew the publics view of, and go from there. In the past, this is how BSL has come into being:

1. Monkeys and alligators
2. Big cats, bears
3. Exotic ungulates, small cats,
4. All other reptiles (snakes over 10', etc.)
5. Wolves and wolf hybrids
6. Pit bulls
7. Rotties, Dobes, GSDs
8. All other dogs and companion animals to follow.

Guess what? It's WORKING. Evidenced by the fact that we now have a slew of crappy laws banning all of the above animals and breeds of dog. You know how else I know it works?



Now replace "wild animal" with "pit bull"

1. How many of the general public think that when they see a picture of a pit bull snuggling with a baby? Quite a few.

The other three are self explanatory. We've all heard them come from ignorant people whose view on dogs has been shaped by the arista agenda. Which is why we are hearing them now. If you don't have direct experience, your ONLY experience is going to be what the ARs feed you through the media, and it's propaganda.

I STRONGLY urge anyone interested in learning more about keeping wild animals in captivity to look into this group. Join their e-mail list. I used to be a member, and they not only are devoted to fighting SSL, but BSL as well (gasp!) because unlike most people, they realize that it effects everybody's right to own animals regardless of whether they do or not.

Phoenix Exotic Wildlife Association - index

And just so you know, the vast majority of American Zoo Associations members are private individuals, and the majority of animals registered in their species/breeding database through them are in private ownership. Many exotic species who are being bred in captivity by conservators do not do well in a zoo setting where they can be ogled by the public daily, and feel less stressed and reproduce better in a private "household", "facility" whatever you want to call it. Zoos simply do not have the funding to maintain viable populations of threatened/endangered animals in captivity, and rely heavily on the private sector to pick up the slack.

I know a dude with a colony of spider monkeys, he will never make the news because he is a responsible primate owner. His monkeys, just wow. They are happy, they get their privacy, and have an enclosure that is seriously better than the monkey enclosures at both Point Defiance and Woodland park zoos. I can say the same for every big cat owner I personally know, and the grizzly bear owner as well.

I know of a caracal named Tess who worked as a therapy animal in a New York VA. She was amazingly intuitive and social. My favorite story is when Tess and her handler were in the hospital elevator, and a man was wheeled in with them. As they rode the elevator down, Tess walked over to the man and put a paw on his lap. He smiled at her, scratched her head and she visited with him for a little bit. Her handler didn't think anything of the encounter. It happens every day. Then she looked up and saw that the woman pushing the wheel chair was crying. She asked what was wrong, and the woman told her nothing was wrong. That moment was the first time she had seen her brother smile in 10 years.

It's EXACTLY like with pit bulls. You never hear about the good ones, because the good ones don't make good news.

Thank you :hail:

 

[Fran101]

*sigh*... i just think these are WILD animals that belong in the wild. they ARE NOT pets, and all the wild rehab centers where these "pets" go when the owners are sick of them show that.

 

[Dizzy]

*sigh*... i just think these are WILD animals that belong in the wild. they ARE NOT pets, and all the wild rehab centers where these "pets" go when the owners are sick of them show that.

Still more domestic animals in shelters... should we stop owning all animals?

 

[Romy]

*sigh*... i just think these are WILD animals that belong in the wild. they ARE NOT pets, and all the wild rehab centers where these "pets" go when the owners are sick of them show that.

And all the pit bull rescues and shelter euthanizing them by the thousands are sick of that as well. Should pit bulls be banned?

Oh wait, dogs are being abused horribly and put to sleep by the thousands every day. Maybe the aristas are right. No humans are fit to coexist with any animal, and we should ban then all RIGHT NOW.

 

[Fran101]

And all the pit bull rescues and shelter euthanizing them by the thousands are sick of that as well. Should pit bulls be banned?

Oh wait, dogs are being abused horribly and put to sleep by the thousands every day. Maybe the aristas are right. No humans are fit to coexist with any animal, and we should ban then all RIGHT NOW.

I dont think I said what i was trying to say very clearly.. i dont mean they shouldnt be owned as pets AT ALL, because I know some people do it responsibly ( the website proves that)
. I just think the rules should be strict on what you NEED to own one of these very special animals. Ive seen 4 emaciated lions come into the shelter, they were being kept in tiny cages where they couldn't even turn around..it was disgusting. so i was thinking about that when i posted,and im sorry about that.

Maybe if they made rules on like a minimum sized enclosure or something? I dont know.

 

[Romy]

I dont think I said what i was trying to say very clearly.. i dont mean they shouldnt be owned as pets AT ALL, because I know some people do it responsibly ( the website proves that)
. I just think the rules should be strict on what you NEED to own one of these very special animals. Ive seen 4 emaciated lions come into the shelter, they were being kept in tiny cages where they couldn't even turn around..it was disgusting. so i was thinking about that when i posted,and im sorry about that.

Maybe if they made rules on like a minimum sized enclosure or something? I dont know.

See, what people forget is that we already have very good animal cruelty and public/child endangerment laws on the books. The scenario you have witnessed should be covered under existing laws.

Just like people who hoard domestic cats in pet carriers, keep dogs in crates 24/7 without feeding them or cleaning their poo up, etc. Whoever did that to those lions should be prosecuted. I only wish that animal cruelty carried stiffer penalties.

The org that I posted a link to put together guildines for minimum housing of different species, which is pretty similar to the guildlines that zoos use. Except that they recommend the use of three layers of perimenter fencing, to prevent unsupervised children and gawkers from climbing too close and harassing the animals or getting injured themselves.

 

[mjb]

I always thought BSL was due to human fears, however unwarranted they might be.

I thought restrictions on exotic/wild animals was for the protection of the animal.

I am probably misinformed.

 

[Fran101]

See, what people forget is that we already have very good animal cruelty and public/child endangerment laws on the books. The scenario you have witnessed should be covered under existing laws.

Just like people who hoard domestic cats in pet carriers, keep dogs in crates 24/7 without feeding them or cleaning their poo up, etc. Whoever did that to those lions should be prosecuted. I only wish that animal cruelty carried stiffer penalties.

The org that I posted a link to put together guildines for minimum housing of different species, which is pretty similar to the guildlines that zoos use. Except that they recommend the use of three layers of perimenter fencing, to prevent unsupervised children and gawkers from climbing too close and harassing the animals or getting injured themselves.

the man who owned the lions got out of with barely a slap on the wrist, but thats because he was wanted for other BIGGER things so the animal cruelty charges were dropped. 2 of the lions died, the other 2 are in a rehab center.

I saw an ad on kijiji for tiger cubs, they just wanted $1000 cash and you can come pick it up! No big deal at all. I wish we could stop irresponsible breeders from selling cubs to people who aren't prepared
the ad was taken down but it said "VERY UNIQUE PETS! BE THE ENVY OF ALL YOUR FRIENDS, BE LIKE SCARFACE"

same problem with dogs, responsible breeders/owners aren't the problem.

I went to kenya with my mom last summer (thats how kenya the dog got her name lol ) and they drove is up to one of the mother lions that had cubs to show us, she had a tracking collar, her cubs were gone and they found out that they had been stolen by poachers for the black market. im not sure if they were ever found

 

[Dekka]

I don't think they should be kept as pets... Romy..the people you describe dont' sound like they are keeping them as pets.

Pet=a domesticated animal kept for companionship or amusement



Main Entry:
1pet Listen to the pronunciation of 1pet
Pronunciation:
\ˈpet\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
perhaps back-formation from Middle English pety small — more at petty
Date:
1508

1 a: a pampered and usually spoiled child b: a person who is treated with unusual kindness or consideration : darling2: a domesticated animal kept for pleasure rather than utility

So by those definitions (second one is from webster-merriam) people keeping them out in proper enclosures and breeding them to keep them from extinction are not keeping them as pets. To me if it can't live with you happily in your home its not a 'pet'.

I am against people trying to keep them as pets.. not against people keeping them.

But I have to say I don't equate BSL with wild animals. If Darien said his friends had a pet monkey (tiger.. etc) I am not sure I would let him go over and play with it. I am much more likely to be fine with him going over and playing with a dog of any breed.

 

[CaliTerp07]

*shrugs* Maybe I'm a supporter of SSL then. Call it whatever you want, I do not think lions and bobcats and alligators should be owned as pets.

You betcha if my neighbors had alligators in the backyard, I'd be calling someone to get the animals removed. Or I'd be moving. I would not feel safe with them next door to me. Maybe I've been fed "ARista propaganda" or whatever you want to call it, but I'm far more apt to believe that I simply respect the wild nature of these animals.

 

[Fran101]

*shrugs* Maybe I'm a supporter of SSL then. Call it whatever you want, I do not think lions and bobcats and alligators should be owned as pets.

You betcha if my neighbors had alligators in the backyard, I'd be calling someone to get the animals removed. Or I'd be moving. I would not feel safe with them next door to me. Maybe I've been fed "ARista propaganda" or whatever you want to call it, but I'm far more apt to believe that I simply respect the wild nature of these animals.

If my neighbor had a tiger running around and looking over my fence. we would have problems. but if it was in a proper enclosure, well fed, cared for. then i wouldn't have a problem with it..

but even if just once it got out, killed one of my pets on MY property id call animal control. but thats with any animal.

 

[Romy]

I don't think they should be kept as pets... Romy..the people you describe dont' sound like they are keeping them as pets.



So by those definitions (second one is from webster-merriam) people keeping them out in proper enclosures and breeding them to keep them from extinction are not keeping them as pets. To me if it can't live with you happily in your home its not a 'pet'.

I am against people trying to keep them as pets.. not against people keeping them.

But I have to say I don't equate BSL with wild animals. If Darien said his friends had a pet monkey (tiger.. etc) I am not sure I would let him go over and play with it. I am much more likely to be fine with him going over and playing with a dog of any breed.

Some of them do though.The animals have their fancy giant enclosures, but just as many of them do spend time indoors with their keepers, or vice versa. And sadly, the law makes no distinction between the responsible and irresponsible owners. Pretty much, if you aren't a giant zoo they become illegal no matter what.

I wouldn't let Aurelia go play with someone's tiger or monkey either. But coatimundi? Ringtail cat? Heck yeah. And some of the smaller cats do adapt very well to living with humans. Caracals and servals among them.

Fransheska, that is tragic about those lions. People who treat animals that way...I won't say what I'd like to do to them.

Anyway, I feel that as an American citizen, if I was to win the lottery and wanted to build a massive heated lake on my property with heated building for the winter and fenced it with appropriate fencing to prevent trespassers and animals from wandering through, I should be able to have alligators if I want. As long as the animal's needs are met, and the public is not being put in danger, it shouldn't be an issue.

Cali, according to your logic, zoos are commiting a grievous sin by keeping them in captivity. Do you believe that it is wrong to keep wild animals in zoos too?

 

[Romy]

If my neighbor had a tiger running around and looking over my fence. we would have problems.

If your neighbor had a horse or a llama doing the same thing, the city would probably be frowning on that as well. The city is never really appropriate for large animals that need space.

 

[Fran101]

If your neighbor had a horse or a llama doing the same thing, the city would probably be frowning on that as well. The city is never really appropriate for large animals that need space.

lol but Id feel a little safer if it was a llama!

my neighbor does have a wild cat. its a bengal cat or something, its really pretty but he takes it on walks like a dog, doesn't let it out.it has really long legs and cute ears

 

[Renee750il]

I've got to admit that the few times I've been to zoos -- even very well done ones, I've left with mixed feelings. Awe at watching these animals (well, except the monkeys - I don't even go near the monkey enclosures), but at the same time sadness, seeing them "kept," and then the anger that for some of these species, zoos are the only way they are going to survive.

Especially with loons like Sarah Palin gunning for them. Literally.

 

[Romy]

lol but Id feel a little safer if it was a llama!

my neighbor does have a wild cat. its a bengal cat or something, its really pretty but he takes it on walks like a dog, doesn't let it out.it has really long legs and cute ears

Bengals are awesome. They are hybrids between domestic cats and asian leopard cats. After the first generation I find that their temperaments are much better than your average fully domestic cat, as the good breeders breed for temperament. Compared to most domestic cats who just breed when they feel like it. Honestly, I would feel totally safe with Aurelia playing with one at her age.

He probably keeps it on a leash because of the price. I know if I paid that much for a cat I would never let it outside unsupervised.

 

[Fran101]

I've got to admit that the few times I've been to zoos -- even very well done ones, I've left with mixed feelings. Awe at watching these animals (well, except the monkeys - I don't even go near the monkey enclosures), but at the same time sadness, seeing them "kept," and then the anger that for some of these species, zoos are the only way they are going to survive.

Especially with loons like Sarah Palin gunning for them. Literally.

I think it depends on the animal.
In miami, its ALL ABOUT BIG CATS, people love them. some guy died and left 1 billion to the ones at the zoo. which is why they have their own castle and SO MUCH SPACE

but other animals :/ their exhibits leave to be desired. i think zoos pick favorites BIG TIME and i wish it wasn't like that but the animals that PEOPLE LOVE, usually big cats, elephants, girrafs, get the best exhibits.