link to pictures of someone's pet bobcats and cougars
- Thread starter Aurora171989
- Start date
Zoos are far different than what we're talking about here. The majority of zoos I don't like, you're right. There are a handful that seem to do a good job with their animals, putting them in more natural environments (The San Diego Wild Animal Park comes to mind), and giving them dozens of acres to run through, but most of them are just depressing, to me. The national zoo here in DC is disgusting. The elephants have a space the size of my backyard in southern california (SMALL!), and the orangutans have a cage the size of my bedroom. It's terrible. I've been twice, and was so depressed when I left the second time that I will never go back.
So yeah, I don't agree with zoos.
However, zoos have trained veterinarians on hand, have scientists studying the animals, and have zookeepers who continually attend courses to increase their knowledge. There are people on hand to monitor visitors and make sure they don't do something stupid. Random people aren't allowed to feed the lions. Yet tragedies still happen.
Now take away any of the precautions zoos. How much is the level of incidents going to rise? If Joe Blow buys a tiger because he thinks it's cool, keeps it in a marvelous backyard enclosure but forgets to lock it one night, or lets the neighborhood kid feed it because it's "tame" or my hypothetical house cat escapes and wanders into its enclosure, or they don't realize that the cage is rusting because there is no regulation on these enclosures and the tiger escapes...
When any fool can buy a tiger online, there's a HUGE safety issue for anyone living in the same neighborhood as that tiger.
So yeah, I don't agree with zoos.
However, zoos have trained veterinarians on hand, have scientists studying the animals, and have zookeepers who continually attend courses to increase their knowledge. There are people on hand to monitor visitors and make sure they don't do something stupid. Random people aren't allowed to feed the lions. Yet tragedies still happen.
Now take away any of the precautions zoos. How much is the level of incidents going to rise? If Joe Blow buys a tiger because he thinks it's cool, keeps it in a marvelous backyard enclosure but forgets to lock it one night, or lets the neighborhood kid feed it because it's "tame" or my hypothetical house cat escapes and wanders into its enclosure, or they don't realize that the cage is rusting because there is no regulation on these enclosures and the tiger escapes...
When any fool can buy a tiger online, there's a HUGE safety issue for anyone living in the same neighborhood as that tiger.
those are cool pics fransheska, I dont agree with not being able to house exotic birds properly as you mentioned though my senegalk parrot has a 5 foot tall cage he has lots of time out of his cage every day and he even eats off my plate. As well as knowing about 20 human words. But when you said you could never house a cockatoo properly its more so that if you dont have them time to spend with them every day they are a bird that really feather plucks.
Its not that i dont agree with them being housed properly, ive seen many people with happy birds with huge cages and toys and interaction
what i meant is that once i saw them in the wild, all together, flying together.. it made me never want to own one in captivity. not forcing it upon everyone, just my personal opinion.
what i meant is that once i saw them in the wild, all together, flying together.. it made me never want to own one in captivity. not forcing it upon everyone, just my personal opinion.
Exotic Cats - Exotic Cat Care, and Exotic Cats as Pets
this site has some good exotic cat information..
this site has some good exotic cat information..
Umm....my views have nothing to do with the eeevil Arista influence. That's just my brain telling me, "Hmm. Anything undomesticated, carnivorous, and with teeth the size of my fingers doesn't need to be kept as a novelty pet by any idiot who can cough up $1,000."
I think majority of them are. That's why states require wildlife rehabbers to have licenses. It keeps people from trying to take animals out of the wild and raising or selling them as pets, or giving them the wrong care out of ignorance. And I believe that in most states, people are not allowed to own native wild species as pets for the same reason. Do we have to get rid of those laws to save the pit bulls, too?
I think majority of them are. That's why states require wildlife rehabbers to have licenses. It keeps people from trying to take animals out of the wild and raising or selling them as pets, or giving them the wrong care out of ignorance. And I believe that in most states, people are not allowed to own native wild species as pets for the same reason. Do we have to get rid of those laws to save the pit bulls, too?
When the HSUS tried to ban exotics in Virginia a few years ago, their little spiel to the legislators included an estimate of 8,000 tigers in private ownership in the US. That figure did not include any of the lions, leopards, cougars, jaguars, etc. as well. I have no idea where they got that estimate from, or if they just pulled it out of their rears. If it is true however, then we have remarkably few incidents comparatively. Also, that means that the number of tigers in private ownership in the US alone is more than twice the number of wild tigers.
And if people are following the housing guidlines set out by the Phoenix Exotics organization (and many do), then their housing is actually safer than the guidlines zoos use. They are concerned with preventing the animal from being viewed, rather than the best way to display them. It is hard to see a tiger behind three layers of perimeter fencing spaced 10-20 feet apart. If the tiger that escaped a professional zoo had been housed according to their guildines she probably wouldn't have escaped and killed those boys. Even better, they wouldn't have been able to taunt her in the first place.
Personally I will never own a wild cat (or moneky, eww). But, after having seen how responsible owners care for them and the relationship they have with their animals I realize that I have no business telling people what they should and shouldn't have. Personally, I am terrified of horses. Been injured badly by horses. They kill and cripple many many more people each year, children included, than exotics ever will. They need a lot space, specialized care and nutrition. They are frequently abused. I will never own one. But that doesn't mean that nobody else should have one either.
That's horrible people sell tiger cubs in online classifieds. I thought you had to have a USDA license to breed them? Maybe those guys weren't obeying the law to begin with.
And if people are following the housing guidlines set out by the Phoenix Exotics organization (and many do), then their housing is actually safer than the guidlines zoos use. They are concerned with preventing the animal from being viewed, rather than the best way to display them. It is hard to see a tiger behind three layers of perimeter fencing spaced 10-20 feet apart. If the tiger that escaped a professional zoo had been housed according to their guildines she probably wouldn't have escaped and killed those boys. Even better, they wouldn't have been able to taunt her in the first place.
Personally I will never own a wild cat (or moneky, eww). But, after having seen how responsible owners care for them and the relationship they have with their animals I realize that I have no business telling people what they should and shouldn't have. Personally, I am terrified of horses. Been injured badly by horses. They kill and cripple many many more people each year, children included, than exotics ever will. They need a lot space, specialized care and nutrition. They are frequently abused. I will never own one. But that doesn't mean that nobody else should have one either.
That's horrible people sell tiger cubs in online classifieds. I thought you had to have a USDA license to breed them? Maybe those guys weren't obeying the law to begin with.
the everpresent danger. the most dangerous animal on earth doesn't even require a permit in this country
Most Americans may not realize it, but already we are trapped—surrounded by an ever present danger that threatens our health, our lives, and even the very environment in which we live. This danger comes in the form of a creature more perilous than any other to have walked the earth before it.
It can take as much as $150,000 or more to raise just one of them. Many caretakers are ill equipped to handle such a creature, resulting in the deaths of around 2,000 of them every year in the United States alone due to abuse or neglect. In 2002, a little over 800,000 of these creatures were determined to have been abused or neglected in the United States by their caretakers.
Training is a vital part of raising this creature, yet many caretakers implement little or no training. In the juvenile stages, these creatures are capable of destructive and erratic behavior, and behavior that is dangerous both to themselves and to those around them. This can carry over into adolescence and even adulthood despite proper training. When maturing, many have been known to “turn†on their caretakers. The vast majority of those raised in captivity will have escaped from their caretakers by the time they reach adulthood.
On the loose, the destructive habits of these creatures costs taxpayers, local businesses, and local governments millions of dollars every year. The environment has suffered even more—over the past ten years alone, over half of the world's wetlands and original forests have been destroyed as a result of intrusion by this creature. Even the ocean biomes are left vulnerable. This creature has been both directly and indirectly responsible for the destruction of 11% of the world’s coral reefs. The loss of native plants and animals is just as staggering. Since 1600, an estimated 50 species of mammals and 125 species of birds have become extinct, and today, around 20,000 different species of plants and animals are facing extinction—all almost entirely because of the destructive and intrusive nature of these creatures.
Humans have been paying a price as well. This creature is known for its potentially aggressive and often unpredictable behavior. Every year in the United States, approximately 6.9 out of every 100,000 Americans are attacked and killed by these creatures. In addition to this, there are a host of diseases capable of being carried by this creature, many of which are contagious to humans. Influenza is one such disease, which afflicts 10 to 20 percent of the American population per year and is responsible for the deaths of approximately 36,000 Americans per year.
You may think zoos or specialized personnel would be the only ones capable of legally possessing a creature this dangerous and hard to care for, yet this is not true. As many as 4 million of these creatures are born in the United States every year--most under the care of private “owners.†A startling 17% of these owners are under the age of 20! It is all completely legal.
By now you may be wondering, what can be done to prevent people from getting a hold of such a creature? What can be done to stop this startling trend and protect human lives and the environment? The answer is simple: ban Homo sapiens.
Most Americans may not realize it, but already we are trapped—surrounded by an ever present danger that threatens our health, our lives, and even the very environment in which we live. This danger comes in the form of a creature more perilous than any other to have walked the earth before it.
It can take as much as $150,000 or more to raise just one of them. Many caretakers are ill equipped to handle such a creature, resulting in the deaths of around 2,000 of them every year in the United States alone due to abuse or neglect. In 2002, a little over 800,000 of these creatures were determined to have been abused or neglected in the United States by their caretakers.
Training is a vital part of raising this creature, yet many caretakers implement little or no training. In the juvenile stages, these creatures are capable of destructive and erratic behavior, and behavior that is dangerous both to themselves and to those around them. This can carry over into adolescence and even adulthood despite proper training. When maturing, many have been known to “turn†on their caretakers. The vast majority of those raised in captivity will have escaped from their caretakers by the time they reach adulthood.
On the loose, the destructive habits of these creatures costs taxpayers, local businesses, and local governments millions of dollars every year. The environment has suffered even more—over the past ten years alone, over half of the world's wetlands and original forests have been destroyed as a result of intrusion by this creature. Even the ocean biomes are left vulnerable. This creature has been both directly and indirectly responsible for the destruction of 11% of the world’s coral reefs. The loss of native plants and animals is just as staggering. Since 1600, an estimated 50 species of mammals and 125 species of birds have become extinct, and today, around 20,000 different species of plants and animals are facing extinction—all almost entirely because of the destructive and intrusive nature of these creatures.
Humans have been paying a price as well. This creature is known for its potentially aggressive and often unpredictable behavior. Every year in the United States, approximately 6.9 out of every 100,000 Americans are attacked and killed by these creatures. In addition to this, there are a host of diseases capable of being carried by this creature, many of which are contagious to humans. Influenza is one such disease, which afflicts 10 to 20 percent of the American population per year and is responsible for the deaths of approximately 36,000 Americans per year.
You may think zoos or specialized personnel would be the only ones capable of legally possessing a creature this dangerous and hard to care for, yet this is not true. As many as 4 million of these creatures are born in the United States every year--most under the care of private “owners.†A startling 17% of these owners are under the age of 20! It is all completely legal.
By now you may be wondering, what can be done to prevent people from getting a hold of such a creature? What can be done to stop this startling trend and protect human lives and the environment? The answer is simple: ban Homo sapiens.
Exactly. Those people are welcome to own their pet bobcats and snuggle up with their cougar at night. Just as I am welcome to think they are fools for doing so, and are degrading the very animals they clearly love.
I never said in my original post that I thought it should be illegal (although I'm still not convinced it shouldn't be); I simply said I couldn't feel good about it.
I never said in my original post that I thought it should be illegal (although I'm still not convinced it shouldn't be); I simply said I couldn't feel good about it.
Romy what You describe isnt what i woudl consider keeping wild animals as "pets" they have their outdoor enclosures and are RESPECTED as WILD and potentially dangerous animals, yes those animals occasionally spend indoor time with their "KEEPERS" they will snuggle them and coo over them ect but they always keep in mind that they are dealing with wild and potentially deadly creatures.
this is completly different from people keeping these kinds of wild animals as PETS, declawing them, sleeping in the bed with them, letting them interact unsupervised with their smaller pets, and loosing site of the fact that these animals are indeed still WILD and potentially DEADLY animals.
these are the people who tell others that their animals are "just like having ...(insert domesticated species of similar here)..." or "oh hes TAME because we bottle fed him" or "oh there from captive breeding programs so arnt dangerous like their wild counterparts" THESE are the people that should NOT be keeping these animals.
These are the folks which NEED to have stricter enforced rules upon them.
in some states you CAN go out and buy a tiger cub, you dont have to provide any kind of specialized fencing, any kind of additional security precuations, dont have to prove you have any kind of damned clue how to care for this animal...as long as you have the cash you can buy one...and when exotics can go as cheep as $500 literally, any tom dick and harry can purchase one.
do i belive that keeping these animals as captive animals should be made illegal...NO, i do belive that there needs to be stricter laws reguarding WHO can keep these animals and how they should be kept. i think states that require lisencing to own these kinds of "exotics" have the right idea, but i think it needs to be more effective.
ie i think people wanting to own an exotic must do so mnay volunteer hours at a zoological society or sanctuary working with/learning about the specific species their interested in.
they should be required to at the very least take classes on saftey, feeding housing ect requirment...
(to be fair i also think people should have to pass a test before they can procreate too so...)
again, for those who have worked with, have, or know folks with these amazing exotic creatures THAT ARE DOING IT RIGHT, you knwo that even with the best of set ups, problems can arise...
i think theres a HUGE difference between the (what sounds to be) RESPONSIBLE private collections and keepers that have these exotics on their property privatly, manage them correctly and understand they are still wild animals
and folks who just think...
HEY i can get a tiger for $1000 that would be awesom there so cool and prety and i dont even need a lisence in my state...
ive had discussions with the people who own the origional posted site.
last i spoke with them (now over a year ago) the rescue lived outdoors in what i woudl cosnider a small but livable enclosure...the other 2 (bottle cubs) however HAVE an outdoor enclosure that they spend time in but are indeed "house pets" and have been left loose when there not home on occasion.
my BIGGEST problem however in this case is the fact that the cats are declawed, that, in my opinion, is cheating, and just cruel to the cats.
this is completly different from people keeping these kinds of wild animals as PETS, declawing them, sleeping in the bed with them, letting them interact unsupervised with their smaller pets, and loosing site of the fact that these animals are indeed still WILD and potentially DEADLY animals.
these are the people who tell others that their animals are "just like having ...(insert domesticated species of similar here)..." or "oh hes TAME because we bottle fed him" or "oh there from captive breeding programs so arnt dangerous like their wild counterparts" THESE are the people that should NOT be keeping these animals.
These are the folks which NEED to have stricter enforced rules upon them.
in some states you CAN go out and buy a tiger cub, you dont have to provide any kind of specialized fencing, any kind of additional security precuations, dont have to prove you have any kind of damned clue how to care for this animal...as long as you have the cash you can buy one...and when exotics can go as cheep as $500 literally, any tom dick and harry can purchase one.
do i belive that keeping these animals as captive animals should be made illegal...NO, i do belive that there needs to be stricter laws reguarding WHO can keep these animals and how they should be kept. i think states that require lisencing to own these kinds of "exotics" have the right idea, but i think it needs to be more effective.
ie i think people wanting to own an exotic must do so mnay volunteer hours at a zoological society or sanctuary working with/learning about the specific species their interested in.
they should be required to at the very least take classes on saftey, feeding housing ect requirment...
(to be fair i also think people should have to pass a test before they can procreate too so...)
again, for those who have worked with, have, or know folks with these amazing exotic creatures THAT ARE DOING IT RIGHT, you knwo that even with the best of set ups, problems can arise...
i think theres a HUGE difference between the (what sounds to be) RESPONSIBLE private collections and keepers that have these exotics on their property privatly, manage them correctly and understand they are still wild animals
and folks who just think...
HEY i can get a tiger for $1000 that would be awesom there so cool and prety and i dont even need a lisence in my state...
ive had discussions with the people who own the origional posted site.
last i spoke with them (now over a year ago) the rescue lived outdoors in what i woudl cosnider a small but livable enclosure...the other 2 (bottle cubs) however HAVE an outdoor enclosure that they spend time in but are indeed "house pets" and have been left loose when there not home on occasion.
my BIGGEST problem however in this case is the fact that the cats are declawed, that, in my opinion, is cheating, and just cruel to the cats.
:hail:
I agree with you 100%. Personally, I would love to see big cat certification programs put in place, just like the falconry programs that require you to be apprenticed to a certified falconer for X amount of time, have mentors, pass an exam, etc. in order to become licensed.
What I hate is the blanket banning. In WA state we defeated the ban for several years because the wording contained stipulations, like spaying and neutering all exotics in the state...which violates the endangered species act when the exotic is listed with CITES. Unfortunately it went through. Those laws do not take into account all the great keepers out there. The general public is not aware of all the great keepers out there, and there are many, because they are an introverted secretive bunch. So all they hear about is some moron who tries to keep a tiger in his apartment and feed it tofu, so of course it eats him instead.
The blanket banning also affects all the AZA members who don't have giant public facilities, effectively removing their stock from our captive gene pool. When a ban is enacted, you see the same thing as when dogs are banned, mass euthanasia.
I agree with you 100%. Personally, I would love to see big cat certification programs put in place, just like the falconry programs that require you to be apprenticed to a certified falconer for X amount of time, have mentors, pass an exam, etc. in order to become licensed.
What I hate is the blanket banning. In WA state we defeated the ban for several years because the wording contained stipulations, like spaying and neutering all exotics in the state...which violates the endangered species act when the exotic is listed with CITES. Unfortunately it went through. Those laws do not take into account all the great keepers out there. The general public is not aware of all the great keepers out there, and there are many, because they are an introverted secretive bunch. So all they hear about is some moron who tries to keep a tiger in his apartment and feed it tofu, so of course it eats him instead.
The blanket banning also affects all the AZA members who don't have giant public facilities, effectively removing their stock from our captive gene pool. When a ban is enacted, you see the same thing as when dogs are banned, mass euthanasia.
And what about.. Przewalski's Horse? 
You don't really see people catching, taming, and breeding them as pets. From what I understand they are not easily worked with and can be rather aggressive. They tend to be kept for zoos, etc.
The vast majority of equines brought into captivity from the wild are animals that are feral, not naturally "wild."
I don't know about cats, but I do believe that horses often are. Back in the day the cavalry would sometimes turn arabs or TBs loose with mustangs to recapture the offspring to use as mounts. I also remember reading articles in one of my aunt's old horse magazines from the 70's following an experiment where they released a young arab stallion among a mustang population to improve the quality of the stock.
Speaking of idiots with wild animals, there was a sighting or a 2-3 foot long alligator in one of our local lakes that I swim Jack in and that TONS of kids swim in every summer. Fantastic. If nobody can catch it hopefully the winter will kill the litter bugger off....
Here is the news story: Denied:1up! Software ()
Here is the news story: Denied:1up! Software ()
