Let's Be Controversial

[Dogdragoness]

Same in my area for GSD, and it's really sad my hubby loves GSD, but to get a "proper" one and not a show line one without a brain in its head, or a shoddy BYB one, he would have to import, and since that would be WAY too expensive for us, a GSD for him is out ... unless something changes.

While I normally dont care what someone spends their money on, if it is going to be potentially detrimental to an entire BREED, no I do not think it's right to change them just so people who want to own [insert breed name here] but cant handle them in their "pure" form can.

 

[Dekka]

one could make the argument that it's already happened. I really don't care what kind of dogs people like, just take care of them. I don't understand why someone wants a dog that doesn't act anything like the breed description that defines it as a separate and identifiable breed, but take care if it and i have no problems.

But there are GSD breeders everywhere and there isnt' a single one in the state i live in that I'd go and looking for an actual working prospect., maybe 1. I have to go MN or IL to find a GSD breeder I'd feel confident would have a dog capable of working from it's breeding program. those aren't good odds considering I can find GSD puppies for sale all over around here.

Possibly. TBH I do not know that much about GSDs. I was just running with an example of a previous poster. I love the 'real' JRT temperament. And I get that I will be in the minority, even in a group of dog enthusiasts. Right now there are enough crazy people like me out there who are breeders. So at this moment I do not worry about working JRTs disappearing, but I would hate to see it happen. They are just so perfect for what they were bred to do.

 

[Dogdragoness]

Possibly. TBH I do not know that much about GSDs. I was just running with an example of a previous poster. I love the 'real' JRT temperament. And I get that I will be in the minority, even in a group of dog enthusiasts. Right now there are enough crazy people like me out there who are breeders. So at this moment I do not worry about working JRTs disappearing, but I would hate to see it happen. They are just so perfect for what they were bred to do.

TOTALLY agree there! We have a JRT who will be 16 in may, is almost blind and half deaf and he can STILL kill rabbits and rats. Amazing, bad a** little dogs.

 

[Kyllobernese]

I agree with Paviche's post. Also, I now have a Doodle and if she is any example, I can see why people like them. Never thought I would own one but someone had a litter from a purebred Golden by what they called a "Moyen" poodle. Actually he was from someone who also bred Aussies and obviously this "Moyen" also had a bit of Aussie as well as Poodle in him as he was a merle.

Bonnie is a blue merle, about 38 lbs. now at 7 months and one of the smartest dogs I have owned. Great temperament and so much fun to work with.

I am not against the use of e-collars or prongs on certain dogs. Would never use it on Bonnie and my Doberman is probably the only dog I will ever use both on but I also learned how to use them properly. Kris is not cropped but I am not completely against people cropping and do not like the look of them undocked but could probably get used to it.

My favorite mix is my Shih Tzu x Maltese and I will probably always have one. (or more).

 

[Sweet72947]

I haven't volunteered with rescue since I brought Norris home two years ago, because I haven't really had much time. But when I was there I discovered that a lot of my thoughts are controversial among the rescue crowd.

For example, I think everyone who applies for a dog should be evaluated on a case by case basis and not immediately told "no" because they don't do everything the same way you do. I believe in having an open discussion about these things. I think with an open exchange of ideas and information, many more people would walk away educated about the care of dogs. However, a lot of people would rather just reject people and send them away.

I think shock collars (stim collars, whatever you call them) shouldn't really be used. I have seen way more issues with dogs trained using shock collars who were neurotic wrecks, than with any other tool. Even most dogs on prong collars seem pretty normal. Dogs on shock collars are on edge all the time because they never know when a shock is coming, because people suck at timing, and also telling your dog to "come" and then shocking the crap out of them when they ignore you is a terrible way to train a recall. We have had dogs come through rescue with burns on their neck from misuse of shock collars. Dogs have the mental capacity of a four-year old child. But we would never shock four year olds.

I have no issue with people keeping their dogs intact. I have no issue with cropping/docking as long as it is done humanely.

I seriously judge people who keep their dogs TOO FAT. You are CRUEL if you don't care that your dog has trouble walking, has trouble breathing, could get diabetes, orthopedic issues, etc etc. Your dog SHOULD NOT look like a walking sausage! A little chubby but can still be a dog, yeah you get a pass. But when I see dogs that look like end tables, I just want to rip their owners a new one.

And the BIG controversial opinion, that I cannot mention in rescue circles unless I want to be almost literally tarred and feathered, is that I don't think it's wrong to euthanize a dog for aggression. Seriously, if the dog is dangerous, and efforts to train have failed, I will not fault you for choosing euthanasia. Owning a dog is supposed to be FUN. It's not fun when you have to worry about your dog hurting you or other people. It's not fun for you, and it's not fun for the dog who's living his life so completely stressed all the time that he feels the need to bite people.

 

[CrystalGSD]

I seriously judge people who keep their dogs TOO FAT. You are CRUEL if you don't care that your dog has trouble walking, has trouble breathing, could get diabetes, orthopedic issues, etc etc. Your dog SHOULD NOT look like a walking sausage! A little chubby but can still be a dog, yeah you get a pass. But when I see dogs that look like end tables, I just want to rip their owners a new one.

And the BIG controversial opinion, that I cannot mention in rescue circles unless I want to be almost literally tarred and feathered, is that I don't think it's wrong to euthanize a dog for aggression. Seriously, if the dog is dangerous, and efforts to train have failed, I will not fault you for choosing euthanasia. Owning a dog is supposed to be FUN. It's not fun when you have to worry about your dog hurting you or other people. It's not fun for you, and it's not fun for the dog who's living his life so completely stressed all the time that he feels the need to bite people.

I agree with both of these. Regarding the first one, the amount of morbidly obese dogs down here is RIDICULOUS. Like the dogs are so fat they have fat rolls on their back and they can barely even waddle around and breathe. What type of quality of life is that? I honestly believe that allowing a dog to become morbidly obese should be treated as neglect.

 

[Dogdragoness]

I also think it's cruel for people who have even what i would consider chubby dogs that come to sports classes like agility (some do it for fun I know) and I feel bad for the poor dogs and I get nervous for them every time they take a jump or obstacle.

 

[Samsonyte!]

I also think it's cruel for people who have even what i would consider chubby dogs that come to sports classes like agility (some do it for fun I know) and I feel bad for the poor dogs and I get nervous for them every time they take a jump or obstacle.

omg this so much. I know they mean well but the poor poor dog's joints.

 

[Laurelin]

I'll be controversial in that I think people online are too uptight about dog weight. I don't give a fig if someone's dog is chubby.

 

[Samsonyte!]

I'm not saying all dogs should be super toned, all muscle, not an ounce of excess fat on them. My concern is when I see morbidly obese dogs that are visibly struggling running a high impact sport like agility. As much as I love love love seeing people getting out and doing sports with their dogs, it can't be comfortable for the dog. Even so, not my problem just kinda makes me cringe internally for a moment. I dunno.

 

[Dogdragoness]

omg this so much. I know they mean well but the poor poor dog's joints.

Right?

Like I know they dont mean any harm, but the trainer at least should take them aside and tell them (in a nice way of course) that they are putting their dog at risk. I have pulled my own dog out of agility because of the way he is put together conformationally, and he was coming up sore ... even at "sporting" weight, I cant imagine making him go around chubby.

 

[sassafras]

I'll be controversial in that I think people online are too uptight about dog weight. I don't give a fig if someone's dog is chubby.

Preach it. Also nails.

 

[Brattina88]

Preach it. Also nails.

Yes to all of these. Plus vets.

Because 17 year olds who haven't graduated from high school know more than vets.... Because they've read articles on the 'net! :rofl1:

 

[milos_mommy]

I'll be controversial in that I think people online are too uptight about dog weight. I don't give a fig if someone's dog is chubby.

There's a big difference between chubby and so heavy it's causing joint problems. Chubby is like 90% of the dogs I see. They may have some health issues eventually or currently as a result of it, they may have somewhat restricted movement abilities (get tired faster, can't jump as high), but in general, they're happy, healthy-ish, cared for dogs.

Then there are dogs that are obese to an extreme, where they have obvious joint problems and pain (limping or crying when jumping, can no longer do stairs or even get up on a low couch if they're a big dog), they don't even get up when you come to the door because it's too hard for them, and the people still feed them bacon eggs and cheese for breakfast (with their food), half a sandwich for lunch (with dog treats), get them their own burger and fries for dinner (with their dog food) and give them ice cream after dinner (followed by treats). I know multiple people at this level, and others rapidly approaching it (and they've told me their vet had said the dog NEEDS to be on a diet, but life's short and they want to spoil their pets or "can't say no to that face". I know someone who's dog is so fat she rarely gets up from the couch (which she needs a ramp to get on even though the couch is only as tall as her chest), and the family brings her all their dishes and pots and pans to lick clean. This dog is maybe around the height of my knee...20 inches tall? And I can not wrap both my arms around her waist. She's only a few years old, too. That, I do consider at least neglect.

Also, many with very heavy dogs, maybe not to that extreme but more than chubby, try to get the dog to lose weight by jumping hurdles or taking them on a jog or bike ride. I don't necessarily think that's abuse, just ignorance. Still sad.

 

[CrystalGSD]

There's a big difference between chubby and so heavy it's causing joint problems. Chubby is like 90% of the dogs I see. They may have some health issues eventually or currently as a result of it, they may have somewhat restricted movement abilities (get tired faster, can't jump as high), but in general, they're happy, healthy-ish, cared for dogs.

Yes, there definitely is a difference between chubby and terribly obese. Chubby, I can ignore. I don't mind that. Sure, it isn't ideal, but the dog isn't going to suffer too much because of it. But when dogs waddle into the dog park at this weight, I pity them and see it as inhumane:

Same thing with nails. There's a difference between long nails (ahem, Crystal) and painfully overgrown nails. Lol, but I agree, some dog people are way too uptight about nails.

 

[oakash]

I don't care about chubby dogs because I've got one. I'm telling you, she has been on a diet forever now. But she'll eat acorns. She cracks them open and eats them. She ate the clay legs off of a small deer sculpture I made. She tried to eat a huge envelope before I stopped her. She also eats whatever animals the cat kills and leaves in the yard. She's impossible.

 

[Dogdragoness]

I don't care about chubby dogs because I've got one. I'm telling you, she has been on a diet forever now. But she'll eat acorns. She cracks them open and eats them. She ate the clay legs off of a small deer sculpture I made. She tried to eat a huge envelope before I stopped her. She also eats whatever animals the cat kills and leaves in the yard. She's impossible.

Mine would eat all the things if I let him, LOL.

 

[Liminal]

I think I'm getting to the point where I'm almost more worried about the panic about fake service dogs than about fake service dogs.

I've heard 2-3 stories now about people who do have service dogs getting hassled because their dogs were suspected to be fake, and limited by my geographic area as my experiences obviously are I haven't seen any apparent service dog that was badly misbehaving in public personally.

I mean obviously if a dog is out of control or causing a real problem have it removed and maybe real licensing would be good, but in the meantime I can live with a few jerks slipping their decently-behaved pets into stores disguised as "service animals." People with disabilities and their service animals being harassed by misguided but well-meaning do-gooders convinced that some subtlety of a dog's behavior shows that it clearly hasn't had SD training when no, it actually has... that bothers me way more.

 

[amberdyan]

I think I'm getting to the point where I'm almost more worried about the panic about fake service dogs than about fake service dogs.

I've heard 2-3 stories now about people who do have service dogs getting hassled because their dogs were suspected to be fake, and limited by my geographic area as my experiences obviously are I haven't seen any apparent service dog that was badly misbehaving in public personally.

I mean obviously if a dog is out of control or causing a real problem have it removed and maybe real licensing would be good, but in the meantime I can live with a few jerks slipping their decently-behaved pets into stores disguised as "service animals." People with disabilities and their service animals being harassed by misguided but well-meaning do-gooders convinced that some subtlety of a dog's behavior shows that it clearly hasn't had SD training when no, it actually has... that bothers me way more.

I get that. I guess I should say that my "fake service dog issue" is really just an issue with poor dogs as service dogs. It's really not my place to ask/judge someone on whether or not they need a service dog and if a few people fake one and their dog causes no problems... whatever I guess. It doesn't really hurt anyone. But there is someone in our town who has a service dog that WILL attack other dogs. It is a very large, overweight GSD and attacked another dog at a pet store right in front of me. He has pulled things off of shelves in stores and knocked over small children. He's well known in town and people will literally leave a business because he's there.

Yes, she's only one person so it shouldn't matter, but she is poisoning service dogs in a LOT of peoples minds. She's helping create those people who think they know what an SD is and isn't.

 

[NicoleLJ]

I think I'm getting to the point where I'm almost more worried about the panic about fake service dogs than about fake service dogs.

I've heard 2-3 stories now about people who do have service dogs getting hassled because their dogs were suspected to be fake, and limited by my geographic area as my experiences obviously are I haven't seen any apparent service dog that was badly misbehaving in public personally.

I mean obviously if a dog is out of control or causing a real problem have it removed and maybe real licensing would be good, but in the meantime I can live with a few jerks slipping their decently-behaved pets into stores disguised as "service animals." People with disabilities and their service animals being harassed by misguided but well-meaning do-gooders convinced that some subtlety of a dog's behavior shows that it clearly hasn't had SD training when no, it actually has... that bothers me way more.

I totally agree. I have no issue with someone faking with a well trained and behaved pet. I have more important things to care about really. They are making their own choices and it is their life and if the dog is causing no reason for concern then live and let live. I do have a huge issue with untrained pets being faked as Service dogs as well as supposed "trained" Service Dogs that are unmanageable. I have seen some facility trained Service dogs being dog aggressive to the point of dragging blind handlers into the street to attempt to attack another dog, dragging through stores to attack another well trained Service Dog, barking non-stop in businesses for no reason and such. So I always educate the business owners. I have even had businesses ask me to do presentations to their employees to teach them the laws but also their rights to ask these unmanageable animals to leave their business regardless of government ID. The best way to try and curtail fakers OR unmanageable "legit" Service Dogs is to educate businesses. First the businesses will respect you so much more for showing them the respect by teaching them their rights, but it also shows them that a Service Dog does not mean that they have to allow aggressive or dangerous animals into their business or an animal that causes sever disruptions. Educating is the key in my opinion.