Let's Be Controversial
- Thread starter CrystalGSD
- Start date
Oh boy, my favorite!
I do not think that prongs and e-collars are the devil.
I am all for people breeding mixes as long as they're breeding healthy, sound dogs and standing behind them. Same with out-of-standard colors.
Similarly, I do not think that Doodles are a scourge upon dog-kind.
I am 100% for outcrossing and think that the dog fancy's view on it is outdated and spitting in the face of the actual science behind breeding. In fact I think a good portion of the dog fancy has absolutely zero clue about science and instead goes by tradition which is incredibly messed up.
There are some dog breeds that it is impossible to breed ethically, like Bulldogs, unless you're breeding way out of standard.
Purina is not pelleted poison and too many people get caught up in feeding what's trendy instead of actually looking at what works for their individual dog.
I think that in some breeds, AKC conformation is a joke. You're not evaluating breeding stock with you've got a dog whose fur is carefully sculpted in unnatural ways filled with hair spray and chalk.
I absolutely do not think that we should save every dog and that filtering a ton of money into one special case, whether it's a very sick, very injured, or even aggressive dog, is a waste of resources when we should be helping as many needy dogs as possible, not spending thousands to tens of thousands on just one.
I do not think that prongs and e-collars are the devil.
I am all for people breeding mixes as long as they're breeding healthy, sound dogs and standing behind them. Same with out-of-standard colors.
Similarly, I do not think that Doodles are a scourge upon dog-kind.
I am 100% for outcrossing and think that the dog fancy's view on it is outdated and spitting in the face of the actual science behind breeding. In fact I think a good portion of the dog fancy has absolutely zero clue about science and instead goes by tradition which is incredibly messed up.
There are some dog breeds that it is impossible to breed ethically, like Bulldogs, unless you're breeding way out of standard.
Purina is not pelleted poison and too many people get caught up in feeding what's trendy instead of actually looking at what works for their individual dog.
I think that in some breeds, AKC conformation is a joke. You're not evaluating breeding stock with you've got a dog whose fur is carefully sculpted in unnatural ways filled with hair spray and chalk.
I absolutely do not think that we should save every dog and that filtering a ton of money into one special case, whether it's a very sick, very injured, or even aggressive dog, is a waste of resources when we should be helping as many needy dogs as possible, not spending thousands to tens of thousands on just one.
I agree with everything you said, Paviche.
I really wish breeding mixed breeds wasn't so condemned in the dog world, especially when it is done in a reputable manner. Totally would get myself a bunch of Shepskies and Lurchers if that was the case haha.
Also, I agree, sometimes I feel like some breeders need to go read a genetics pamphlet or something. The purist dog breeders that really don't want outcrossing to occur have a very narrow minded viewpoint in my opinion that reminds me of eugenics in a way.
Prongs and e collars are perfectly effective with a combo of positive reinforcement. I don't really like when people use punishment without positive reinforcement though, because I feel like the dog doesn't know what to do, it only knows what it did wrong not what to do right.
Lol both my dogs eat purina one. They're alive and fine.
I really wish breeding mixed breeds wasn't so condemned in the dog world, especially when it is done in a reputable manner. Totally would get myself a bunch of Shepskies and Lurchers if that was the case haha.
Also, I agree, sometimes I feel like some breeders need to go read a genetics pamphlet or something. The purist dog breeders that really don't want outcrossing to occur have a very narrow minded viewpoint in my opinion that reminds me of eugenics in a way.
Prongs and e collars are perfectly effective with a combo of positive reinforcement. I don't really like when people use punishment without positive reinforcement though, because I feel like the dog doesn't know what to do, it only knows what it did wrong not what to do right.
Lol both my dogs eat purina one. They're alive and fine.
I disagree with the use of prong collars and e-collars. So there you go 
Rescue bashing makes me unfriend people, because for every crap rescue out there (and yes, I am fully aware there are plenty), I can show you three crap breeders. Neither is better than the other.
That's probably about all I've got. I know the first one makes me in the minority on the board. I'm pretty much live and let live (and am with regards to that as well, but it doesn't change how I feel). But the rescue bashing definitely hits a sensitive spot for me.
Rescue bashing makes me unfriend people, because for every crap rescue out there (and yes, I am fully aware there are plenty), I can show you three crap breeders. Neither is better than the other.
That's probably about all I've got. I know the first one makes me in the minority on the board. I'm pretty much live and let live (and am with regards to that as well, but it doesn't change how I feel). But the rescue bashing definitely hits a sensitive spot for me.
Ooh can I be a dick? I'm gonna be a dick.
Dalmatian breeders actually freak me the **** out. It's not even that they cull, it's that deafness can't be determined until 6 weeks, so they have these puppies for six weeks, and then load up a group of happy, wiggly puppies that they've been living with and getting attached to for this long, drive them to the vet, and ask the vet to kill them. And they handle it well enough that it doesn't dissuade them from having another litter, where they'll have to do it all over again. It's not like a painful medical issue, it's a relatively benign trait that you KNOW is going to come in your litters and you KNOW your breed club's policy is "kill 'em and forget 'em."
Like, jesus. I still cry myself to sleep thinking about all the puppies I had to take to the euthaniasia room when I worked at the shelter, and they weren't even my puppies/I didn't have any choice in the matter. It legitimately freaks me out how that doesn't bother people.
Dalmatian breeders actually freak me the **** out. It's not even that they cull, it's that deafness can't be determined until 6 weeks, so they have these puppies for six weeks, and then load up a group of happy, wiggly puppies that they've been living with and getting attached to for this long, drive them to the vet, and ask the vet to kill them. And they handle it well enough that it doesn't dissuade them from having another litter, where they'll have to do it all over again. It's not like a painful medical issue, it's a relatively benign trait that you KNOW is going to come in your litters and you KNOW your breed club's policy is "kill 'em and forget 'em."
Like, jesus. I still cry myself to sleep thinking about all the puppies I had to take to the euthaniasia room when I worked at the shelter, and they weren't even my puppies/I didn't have any choice in the matter. It legitimately freaks me out how that doesn't bother people.
I disagree with the use of prong collars and e-collars. So there you go
Rescue bashing makes me unfriend people, because for every crap rescue out there (and yes, I am fully aware there are plenty), I can show you three crap breeders. Neither is better than the other.
That's probably about all I've got. I know the first one makes me in the minority on the board. I'm pretty much live and let live (and am with regards to that as well, but it doesn't change how I feel). But the rescue bashing definitely hits a sensitive spot for me.
Rescue bashing makes me unfriend people, because for every crap rescue out there (and yes, I am fully aware there are plenty), I can show you three crap breeders. Neither is better than the other.
That's probably about all I've got. I know the first one makes me in the minority on the board. I'm pretty much live and let live (and am with regards to that as well, but it doesn't change how I feel). But the rescue bashing definitely hits a sensitive spot for me.
I disagree with the use of prong collars and e-collars. So there you go
Rescue bashing makes me unfriend people, because for every crap rescue out there (and yes, I am fully aware there are plenty), I can show you three crap breeders. Neither is better than the other.
That's probably about all I've got. I know the first one makes me in the minority on the board. I'm pretty much live and let live (and am with regards to that as well, but it doesn't change how I feel). But the rescue bashing definitely hits a sensitive spot for me.
Rescue bashing makes me unfriend people, because for every crap rescue out there (and yes, I am fully aware there are plenty), I can show you three crap breeders. Neither is better than the other.
That's probably about all I've got. I know the first one makes me in the minority on the board. I'm pretty much live and let live (and am with regards to that as well, but it doesn't change how I feel). But the rescue bashing definitely hits a sensitive spot for me.
Same. There are worse breeders than there are rescues I still believe.
Cropping and docking are not okay with me. Neither is declawing.
Sit pretty...
Not taking care of geriatrics.
I don't like docking or cropping either...
I don't really like how rescues don't adopt out animal to owners with intact dogs, but then again I can also see their reasoning behind it so I'm not too bothered about it. And I volunteer at a rescue regularly, so I don't hate rescues, obviously, haha
Wait a sec, Dalmatian breeders KILL the puppies? What?! I just assumed that they speutered the puppies if they were deaf. Omg. That's so sad how could someone willingly do that?
I don't really like how rescues don't adopt out animal to owners with intact dogs, but then again I can also see their reasoning behind it so I'm not too bothered about it. And I volunteer at a rescue regularly, so I don't hate rescues, obviously, haha
Wait a sec, Dalmatian breeders KILL the puppies? What?! I just assumed that they speutered the puppies if they were deaf. Omg. That's so sad
how could someone willingly do that?
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2006
- Messages
- 15,349
- Likes
- 0
- Points
- 36
I think a lot of my views that are in line with what Paviche posted are the norm on Chaz, but not elsewhere in the dog world.
I don't think prong collars don't have their uses, but I think they're used a lot more frequently than is helpful. It would be rare I'd recommend them.
On Chaz, lots of people are anti spay and neuter...and I do realize there are health benefits to waiting/keeping intact, but I still think campaigns to spay and neuter are a good thing and that 99% of dog owners should not have intact dogs (probably even some people on here who swear they're careful...I know most chazzers are responsible about this but there have been accidents)
I don't think most people should be encouraged to get a breeder dog, even a responsibly bred one. I definitely appreciate what breeders do and how they keep the breeds we love going and can see the reasoning behind getting a breeder dog as a work or sport prospect but very rarely do I think someone couldn't find the dog they want as a pet in rescue. I'm not anti-breeder but I'm way less enthralled with the breeding scene than most chazzers.
I also don't think it's irresponsible for people to get a dog if they can't afford to feed expensive food or pay for larger emergency vet bills, especially when rescuing, because the way I see it, that dog (or another in its place) wouldn't probably have been put down and wouldn't even have the chance to need emergency surgery, so I'm not gonna judge someone who doesn't have $2,000 in an e-vet fund.
I don't think prong collars don't have their uses, but I think they're used a lot more frequently than is helpful. It would be rare I'd recommend them.
On Chaz, lots of people are anti spay and neuter...and I do realize there are health benefits to waiting/keeping intact, but I still think campaigns to spay and neuter are a good thing and that 99% of dog owners should not have intact dogs (probably even some people on here who swear they're careful...I know most chazzers are responsible about this but there have been accidents)
I don't think most people should be encouraged to get a breeder dog, even a responsibly bred one. I definitely appreciate what breeders do and how they keep the breeds we love going and can see the reasoning behind getting a breeder dog as a work or sport prospect but very rarely do I think someone couldn't find the dog they want as a pet in rescue. I'm not anti-breeder but I'm way less enthralled with the breeding scene than most chazzers.
I also don't think it's irresponsible for people to get a dog if they can't afford to feed expensive food or pay for larger emergency vet bills, especially when rescuing, because the way I see it, that dog (or another in its place) wouldn't probably have been put down and wouldn't even have the chance to need emergency surgery, so I'm not gonna judge someone who doesn't have $2,000 in an e-vet fund.
I like dogs. Breeder dogs, rescue dogs, intact dogs, spuetered dogs, purebred dogs, mixed breed dogs. I don't think breeders are the spawn of Satan, and I think the majority of rescues do great work.
I think a lot of the dog world (none of you guys. I love you guys!) lives in their own little world and thinks that their way is the only way
I think a lot of the dog world (none of you guys. I love you guys!) lives in their own little world and thinks that their way is the only way
Whenever I see a Bulldog I genuinely pity them. Same with most pugs. I don't know how people think a dog that struggles to breathe and play is cute... I think both breeds need to change for the sake of the well being of the dogs.
Also, this isn't controversial on this forum really but on other forums I've seen people insist that ALL dogs need 2+ hours of exercise a day... Um what?? Im pretty sure a very small minority of dogs need that amount of exercise every single day of the week. I just wanna be like, have you met Crystal? She's pretty much content to be a couch potato all day every day.
Also, this isn't controversial on this forum really but on other forums I've seen people insist that ALL dogs need 2+ hours of exercise a day... Um what?? Im pretty sure a very small minority of dogs need that amount of exercise every single day of the week. I just wanna be like, have you met Crystal? She's pretty much content to be a couch potato all day every day.
It really drives me batty on the ACD facebook group when people are like oh you need to give these guys HOURS of exercise daily amd EVEN THAT WONT TIRE THEM OUT. I'm like no. That's how you create an insane dog who won't settle down after you've given it hours of exercise. Teach your dogs to settle, people!
Controversy, let's see..
I really value the use of prongs/ecollars. I think they can be such useful tools, it's really infrequent that I use either but man I love them when I do.
I don't automatically find it bothersome if puppies go to their new homes before 8 weeks old.
This isn't a big deal amongst this group but I have a male and female who will be staying intact AND magically they will not be bred *gasp*
My dogs don't live in bubbles as puppies and they get exposed to all sorts of stuff and are even allowed to jump and climb stairs and things.
Ugh man I feel like my opinions are nothing but controversial but it's late and I'm tired and I'm blanking on thoughts.
Controversy, let's see..
I really value the use of prongs/ecollars. I think they can be such useful tools, it's really infrequent that I use either but man I love them when I do.
I don't automatically find it bothersome if puppies go to their new homes before 8 weeks old.
This isn't a big deal amongst this group but I have a male and female who will be staying intact AND magically they will not be bred *gasp*
My dogs don't live in bubbles as puppies and they get exposed to all sorts of stuff and are even allowed to jump and climb stairs and things.
Ugh man I feel like my opinions are nothing but controversial but it's late and I'm tired and I'm blanking on thoughts.
Building off of that, if the puppies you produce are so delicate that they need to be restricted from basic things like using stairs, you need to really re-evaluate your breeding program. I'm all for not asking too much as far as agility jumps and things when they're young but normal, every day things should not wreak havoc on a puppy's joints and if it does, there's something wrong. Same with requiring a puppy to be on certain supplements. Feed a good food balanced for a growing puppy and you should be fine, otherwise there's more going on.
I am not a fan of prong/e-collars.
I think breed specific temperaments/traits/characteristics are overstated. I can't say I've ever met a bunch of dogs of one breed that had all the same characteristics, and temperaments. Only their looks were consistent. So many breeders are breeding their dogs to be "family friendly" that they're washing out what makes that breed unique and different than other breeds outside of looks.
Thusly, I think a high percentage of people can find the dog they want in rescue/shelters.
I think chemotherapy/radiation for dogs is more for the owner than for the dog.
I think the "magic of raw diets" is overstated...that said, I feed my dog raw because he loves it a million times more than kibble.
I think breed specific temperaments/traits/characteristics are overstated. I can't say I've ever met a bunch of dogs of one breed that had all the same characteristics, and temperaments. Only their looks were consistent. So many breeders are breeding their dogs to be "family friendly" that they're washing out what makes that breed unique and different than other breeds outside of looks.
Thusly, I think a high percentage of people can find the dog they want in rescue/shelters.
I think chemotherapy/radiation for dogs is more for the owner than for the dog.
I think the "magic of raw diets" is overstated...that said, I feed my dog raw because he loves it a million times more than kibble.
Why not come out of the woodwork for this one?
My big one that's been building for awhile is that I feel that more dogs should be bred for pet qualities. Specifically for those qualities, and not as an offshoot to other goals (like conformation, or sports, or work). Things like: zero reactivity, a mile-long fuse that's hard to light for dogs and people, fantastic off switch. The last two areas I've lived have been big cities, and both have a lot of people looking for very specific, very tolerant dogs - dogs who need to be dead quiet for apartment living and able to lay under a table at a restaurant every day of the week in summer with 200 passing dogs touching noses to sniff, without specific work and costly training to make them that way - and honestly I just don't see many of those types of dogs coming out of breeders or rescues.
I don't even care what breed is the starting point, if doodles are it then doodles it is (though I meet a fair few reactive and/or fearful doodles...).
My big one that's been building for awhile is that I feel that more dogs should be bred for pet qualities. Specifically for those qualities, and not as an offshoot to other goals (like conformation, or sports, or work). Things like: zero reactivity, a mile-long fuse that's hard to light for dogs and people, fantastic off switch. The last two areas I've lived have been big cities, and both have a lot of people looking for very specific, very tolerant dogs - dogs who need to be dead quiet for apartment living and able to lay under a table at a restaurant every day of the week in summer with 200 passing dogs touching noses to sniff, without specific work and costly training to make them that way - and honestly I just don't see many of those types of dogs coming out of breeders or rescues.
I don't even care what breed is the starting point, if doodles are it then doodles it is (though I meet a fair few reactive and/or fearful doodles...).
Okay, I'll bite.
I like and use prong collars and E-collars. I do feel like I "know" how to use them though, and use them as a tool. My dog doesn't use or need either now as I've faded them out.
I strongly encourage people to rescue dogs, but all my dogs so far have come from good responsible breeders.
I do believe that over 95% of people should spay/neuter their dogs. Most most people cannot handle an intact dog, don't want an intact dog, and I've not yet seen one dog lead a poorer quality of life for it. I will always have altered animals by the latest 2 years old.
I judge breeders of mixed dogs.
I support cropping/docking/dewclaw removal.
I like and use prong collars and E-collars. I do feel like I "know" how to use them though, and use them as a tool. My dog doesn't use or need either now as I've faded them out.
I strongly encourage people to rescue dogs, but all my dogs so far have come from good responsible breeders.
I do believe that over 95% of people should spay/neuter their dogs. Most most people cannot handle an intact dog, don't want an intact dog, and I've not yet seen one dog lead a poorer quality of life for it. I will always have altered animals by the latest 2 years old.
I judge breeders of mixed dogs.
I support cropping/docking/dewclaw removal.
My controversial opinion is that I am not a 100% positive reinforcement trainer. I think something more like 90%p/10%n is perfect. I absolutely believe that in certain circumstances, negative reinforcement is more effective than positive reinforcement in preventing certain behaviors, especially if the dog already understands or is close to understanding "the rules". I base this opinion based on the fact that dogs give each other negative corrections all the time, and if they can handle it and learn from each other then they can handle it and learn from me as well.
Case in point:
I taught Leo to not get his food from his food bowl or any food from the ground unless I say "Ok". I did A LOT of positive training for this, rewarding heavily when he would leave the food alone and wait for me to release him. We did a ton of positive only sessions. However, the first time and every other time Leo went for his food bowl before I said Ok when we "had learned it", I immediately grabbed him by his collar and pulled him off of it.
I now have a dog that will not eat from his bowl until I say and will wait patiently until I give a release word, even if I accidentally drop a high value food item. And yeah, part of that waiting I am sure is from "I don't want her to grab my collar if I go for it before I'm allowed" and that is fine with me, because it's the same reason he no longer body checks dogs chasing after their own balls because "I don't want them to snarl at me".
Case in point:
I taught Leo to not get his food from his food bowl or any food from the ground unless I say "Ok". I did A LOT of positive training for this, rewarding heavily when he would leave the food alone and wait for me to release him. We did a ton of positive only sessions. However, the first time and every other time Leo went for his food bowl before I said Ok when we "had learned it", I immediately grabbed him by his collar and pulled him off of it.
I now have a dog that will not eat from his bowl until I say and will wait patiently until I give a release word, even if I accidentally drop a high value food item. And yeah, part of that waiting I am sure is from "I don't want her to grab my collar if I go for it before I'm allowed" and that is fine with me, because it's the same reason he no longer body checks dogs chasing after their own balls because "I don't want them to snarl at me".