Let's Be Controversial

[NicoleLJ]

I'm not trans, but I'm pretty sure lots of trans people do their best to "pass" as the gender they are transitioning to. A lot of that means dressing in feminine or masculine clothing and accessories.

That's not to say some creeps may take advantage, but I don't think it is fair for fear of a few creeps to overrule the rights of people struggling to be who they truly are.

From what I am learning is they have to live as the gender they accept as their own for at least a year before approval for surgery. So someone(not you) stating that if they have the sex organs of a man still then they can not go in is cruel and wrong. If it is a man transitioning to a woman and having to continue to use a male bathroom while dressed as a woman sets them up for ridicule, abuse, humiliation and so much more when they are already going through so much just to feel comfortable in their own body.

As for creeps taking advantage there are already creeps in the bathrooms. Allowing trans people in there does not change that.

Sadly this reminds me of history that was not so long ago. The right to be prejudice against a select group of people based on a physical trait just because some people don't understand or are uncomfortable.

 

[Ozfozz]

^^ Just came up on my fb, thought it was fitting. Like really, are you going to raise hell over someone that looks like that using the men's room jut because they don't have the proper sexual organ in their pants?

As long as they're there for the same reasons I am, I personally, I don't really give a crap (hah...) who's urinating

 

[Dogdragoness]

If a person has gone through the reassignment surgery and is now, biologically a woman, I have no issues with them using the women's facilities.

However, if they havent, I am sorry, but I dont agree with them getting to use the women's facilities, I mean we arent just talking about bathrooms here, we are talking about showers, locker rooms etc ... sorry but no, I cant agree with that, or condone it. I believe it is a violation of my rights to privacy.

We arent talking about a different race here, we are talking about someone who is of a different GENDER, completely different, a woman who is of a different race still has "the same plumbing" as I do.

Now if they passed an ordinance that required establishments to build transgender bathrooms and facilities, I would be all for that, I think that would make it easier and better for everyone.

I am sorry if my views offend people, and it is your right to disagree, but I also have a right to my feelings on this subject. I have no issue with gay, lesbian or transgender people, but when their rights start infringing on mine, yes, I have a problem with that.

 

[RBark]

If a person has gone through the reassignment surgery and is now, biologically a woman, I have no issues with them using the women's facilities.

However, if they havent, I am sorry, but I dont agree with them getting to use the women's facilities, I mean we arent just talking about bathrooms here, we are talking about showers, locker rooms etc ... sorry but no, I cant agree with that, or condone it. I believe it is a violation of my rights to privacy.

We arent talking about a different race here, we are talking about someone who is of a different GENDER, completely different, a woman who is of a different race still has "the same plumbing" as I do.

Now if they passed an ordinance that required establishments to build transgender bathrooms and facilities, I would be all for that, I think that would make it easier and better for everyone.

I am sorry if my views offend people, and it is your right to disagree, but I also have a right to my feelings on this subject. I have no issue with gay, lesbian or transgender people, but when their rights start infringing on mine, yes, I have a problem with that.

Why would you have a problem with that? You are ALL IN on having your rights violate other people's.

I was going to type logic as a retort then I remembered once again that you don't have a brain. So it's redundant.

 

[Dogdragoness]

I dont care what people say to me, my views are my views and if they make people mad, than so be it.

Big words from everyone, hiding behind your computers, luckily, they are just words to me and mean nothing. If you think you are going to hurt my feelings or ruin my day, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[RBark]

I dont care what people say to me, my views are my views and if they make people mad, than so be it.

Big words from everyone, hiding behind your computers, luckily, they are just words to me and mean nothing. If you think you are going to hurt my feelings or ruin my day, you are sorely mistaken.

Yes I'm sure you'd beat me up if you saw me in person. Please feel free to, I'd love you in prison, it'd be a good cause.

And my goal isn't to hurt your feelings. It's to make other people laugh at you. Wannabe bullies like you have no place in society. The best way to deal with people like you is to render you irrelevant. Thankfully most people have a brain and empathy so these laws are getting rightfully made to support those who need a hand, not scum like you.

 

[NicoleLJ]

If a person has gone through the reassignment surgery and is now, biologically a woman, I have no issues with them using the women's facilities.

However, if they havent, I am sorry, but I dont agree with them getting to use the women's facilities, I mean we arent just talking about bathrooms here, we are talking about showers, locker rooms etc ... sorry but no, I cant agree with that, or condone it. I believe it is a violation of my rights to privacy.

We arent talking about a different race here, we are talking about someone who is of a different GENDER, completely different, a woman who is of a different race still has "the same plumbing" as I do.

Now if they passed an ordinance that required establishments to build transgender bathrooms and facilities, I would be all for that, I think that would make it easier and better for everyone.

I am sorry if my views offend people, and it is your right to disagree, but I also have a right to my feelings on this subject. I have no issue with gay, lesbian or transgender people, but when their rights start infringing on mine, yes, I have a problem with that.

Seriously? You do realize this is 2016 not 1916 right? Build separate bathrooms? Are you kidding me. They did that for people of a different color and look how well that turned out. They are not in any way infringing on your rights in any way. You are infringing on theirs though and I am so glad that the majority of people 100% disagrees with you.

I used to be like you. Judging LGTB people based on my religious beliefs(I have no idea what the basis is for your out of date judgements). But I used religion as my excuse for something I didn't understand. It took some of my patient and caring friends to show me over time how my opinion was taking away another persons rights. How my opinion hurt others, how my opinion could lead a person to judge themselves unfairly for something that was not a choice of their own. It has been years since I became an atheist and stopped judging and started learning. Now I see how giving the same rights to the LGBT community does not in any way affect my rights.

Please stop using you rights as your excuse. You are not being denied ANY rights. Nothing is being removed from you or denied you. You still can go into a stall, close the door and do your business no differently then you did before. You can still shower in locker rooms(most have private shower stalls) in the same way as you did prior. Nothing changed in your rights at all. All that has happened is trans people now can go into the bathroom of the gender they identify with. That is all.

Hopefully these laws will help trans people feel more comfortable with who they are, lowering their stress as they get to be who they are and in turn lowering the suicide rate. That is way more important then your feeling uncomfortable.

 

[Dogdragoness]

Seriously? You do realize this is 2016 not 1916 right? Build separate bathrooms? Are you kidding me. They did that for people of a different color and look how well that turned out. They are not in any way infringing on your rights in any way. You are infringing on theirs though and I am so glad that the majority of people 100% disagrees with you.

I used to be like you. Judging LGTB people based on my religious beliefs(I have no idea what the basis is for your out of date judgements). But I used religion as my excuse for something I didn't understand. It took some of my patient and caring friends to show me over time how my opinion was taking away another persons rights. How my opinion hurt others, how my opinion could lead a person to judge themselves unfairly for something that was not a choice of their own. It has been years since I became an atheist and stopped judging and started learning. Now I see how giving the same rights to the LGBT community does not in any way affect my rights.

Please stop using you rights as your excuse. You are not being denied ANY rights. Nothing is being removed from you or denied you. You still can go into a stall, close the door and do your business no differently then you did before. You can still shower in locker rooms(most have private shower stalls) in the same way as you did prior. Nothing changed in your rights at all. All that has happened is trans people now can go into the bathroom of the gender they identify with. That is all.

Hopefully these laws will help trans people feel more comfortable with who they are, lowering their stress as they get to be who they are and in turn lowering the suicide rate. That is way more important then your feeling uncomfortable.

I am sorry but I will have to disagree. It's not about LGTB hate, or discrimination, or anything like that. still, most female locker rooms in gyms and schools have a common changing area, and I do not want someone who has the biological parts of a man changing or showering next to me.

I have my reasons, and they are no one's business, and they have nothing to do with religion, how I grew up, or where I live in the US. I have no issue with the LGTB community, who someone else marries, lives with or shares a bed with has no affect on me. THIS however DOES.

 

[NicoleLJ]

I am sorry but I will have to disagree. It's not about LGTB hate, or discrimination, or anything like that. still, most female locker rooms in gyms and schools have a common changing area, and I do not want someone who has the biological parts of a man changing or showering next to me.

I have my reasons, and they are no one's business, and they have nothing to do with religion, how I grew up, or where I live in the US. I have no issue with the LGTB community, who someone else marries, lives with or shares a bed with has no affect on me. THIS however DOES.

Actually you are wrong your opinion is discrimination. It does not affect you in any way. Yes locker rooms have a common change area or common shower area. They all do but they also have other areas you can change or shower in in private. WOW so you have a CHOICE. You don't have any right being removed from you. As for them having different parts while they wait for their surgery, So What. Have you ever seen a man or a woman naked before? I guarantee you that your eyes will not burn out of your head if you get a glimpse. Personally I don't care if they are there, and I am a rape survivor. I don't like changing in front of anyone. Doesn't matter if they are male or female. So should that mean I can kick everyone out for MY Comfort and say that it is my right to privacy because of a life experience I had? Nope. Instead I use the other areas in the locker room to change. No issue. Both people feeling comfortable, both people being accommodated and NO ONE's rights being violated. Isn't it amazing how that can happen when people take the time to consider other people and their feelings and what they could be going through instead of making up wild stores of what "could" happen because You are uncomfortable.

 

[Dogdragoness]

Actually you are wrong your opinion is discrimination. It does not affect you in any way. Yes locker rooms have a common change area or common shower area. They all do but they also have other areas you can change or shower in in private. WOW so you have a CHOICE. You don't have any right being removed from you. As for them having different parts while they wait for their surgery, So What. Have you ever seen a man or a woman naked before? I guarantee you that your eyes will not burn out of your head if you get a glimpse. Personally I don't care if they are there, and I am a rape survivor. I don't like changing in front of anyone. Doesn't matter if they are male or female. So should that mean I can kick everyone out for MY Comfort and say that it is my right to privacy because of a life experience I had? Nope. Instead I use the other areas in the locker room to change. No issue. Both people feeling comfortable, both people being accommodated and NO ONE's rights being violated. Isn't it amazing how that can happen when people take the time to consider other people and their feelings and what they could be going through instead of making up wild stores of what "could" happen because You are uncomfortable.

But what if there is no private changing area? and sure it wouldnt be the first wang I have seen, I am sorry but I am very uncomfortable undressing in front of some dude I am not "with".

It has always been men in the men's facilities, women in the women's why does it have to change now? I dont care what someone identifies as, but if they have the parts of a man they should use the men's facilities, because some transgender people dont plan to have the surgery.

 

[NicoleLJ]

But what if there is no private changing area? and sure it wouldnt be the first wang I have seen, I am sorry but I am very uncomfortable undressing in front of some dude I am not "with".

It has always been men in the men's facilities, women in the women's why does it have to change now? I dont care what someone identifies as, but if they have the parts of a man they should use the men's facilities, because some transgender people dont plan to have the surgery.

Actually there is always an option in a change room even if it means changing where the toliets are. I have done that many a time because of MY issue with changing in front of people. Please read that again. MY ISSUE. Not theirs. Just because I have an issue does not mean I can take away someone elses rights. Just because I am uncomfortable does not mean I can take away someone elses rights. It is that simple.

It is not the parts that matter. All the trans people I have met HATE the parts of themselves that show they were born with the wrong sex organs. Women bind themselves, men fold their penises under them and between their legs tightly to try and not have it obvious. Some are very embarrassed by those parts of themselves. None of which has anything to do with you. You have a choice and other options. They do not. How do you think a male trans feels who was born in a female body, when they go into the mens room? Why is so much focus on just the men that are transistioning to female? There are women transitioning to men as well and yet I have not seen one man freak out over the thought of a person with female parts going into their locker room or bathroom. It seems like it is just the men transitioning from female to male that people have such a huge issue with and that is totally sexist.

Or how about people who are born with both sex organs. There are people like that and it is happening more and more that parents are not picking a sex for them at birth and letting them grow up to choose for themselves which they identify with and then get the operation if they choose. Are you telling me that since they have both they can't use any bathroom? Because if you say you don't have an issue with them using the womens or the mens then what is the difference? They have both. The thing is there is none.

Please rethink your opinion on this and start seeing that they are people too and they have a whole lot more on their plates just trying to feel ok in their own skin then you do with a few minutes of being uncomfortable.

 

[Dogdragoness]

Actually there is always an option in a change room even if it means changing where the toliets are. I have done that many a time because of MY issue with changing in front of people. Please read that again. MY ISSUE. Not theirs. Just because I have an issue does not mean I can take away someone elses rights. Just because I am uncomfortable does not mean I can take away someone elses rights. It is that simple.

It is not the parts that matter. All the trans people I have met HATE the parts of themselves that show they were born with the wrong sex organs. Women bind themselves, men fold their penises under them and between their legs tightly to try and not have it obvious. Some are very embarrassed by those parts of themselves. None of which has anything to do with you. You have a choice and other options. They do not. How do you think a male trans feels who was born in a female body, when they go into the mens room? Why is so much focus on just the men that are transistioning to female? There are women transitioning to men as well and yet I have not seen one man freak out over the thought of a person with female parts going into their locker room or bathroom. It seems like it is just the men transitioning from female to male that people have such a huge issue with and that is totally sexist.

Or how about people who are born with both sex organs. There are people like that and it is happening more and more that parents are not picking a sex for them at birth and letting them grow up to choose for themselves which they identify with and then get the operation if they choose. Are you telling me that since they have both they can't use any bathroom? Because if you say you don't have an issue with them using the womens or the mens then what is the difference? They have both. The thing is there is none.

Please rethink your opinion on this and start seeing that they are people too and they have a whole lot more on their plates just trying to feel ok in their own skin then you do with a few minutes of being uncomfortable.

No, sorry. I guess this is something we (and others) are going to have to agree to disagree with on.

I understand my opinions are offensive, but I just dont agree with men being able to use the women's facilities, no matter what they identify as. I just can't get comfortable with the thought of sharing a locker room or shower at the gym with a man, no matter what his true identity is; and if this comes up for vote in my town, I am going to vote against it.

I have no opinion about women using the men's facilities because I am not a man.

 

[NicoleLJ]

No, sorry. I guess this is something we (and others) are going to have to agree to disagree with on.

I understand my opinions are offensive, but I just dont agree with men being able to use the women's facilities, no matter what they identify as. I just can't get comfortable with the thought of sharing a locker room or shower at the gym with a man, no matter what his true identity is; and if this comes up for vote in my town, I am going to vote against it.

I have no opinion about women using the men's facilities because I am not a man.

Good job in totally ignoring my question about people who are born with both sex's. With your opinion as it is they would not be allowed to use ANY bathroom or locker room or so on. But if you say you are ok with them because they do have women's parts then you are ignoring the fact they also have mens parts. So if you are ok with them then your whole stance goes out the window as they have mens parts as well as womens parts. Or what about the ones who have had their boobs done but have not got their lower parts done yet. They are half women. Would that count? Or is it just the penis its self you have issues with? See the problem is you have a very narrow view about a subject that has very huge repercussions over a whole scope of different people. I could go on and ok with examples.

 

[Dogdragoness]

Good job in totally ignoring my question about people who are born with both sex's. With your opinion as it is they would not be allowed to use ANY bathroom or locker room or so on. But if you say you are ok with them because they do have women's parts then you are ignoring the fact they also have mens parts. So if you are ok with them then your whole stance goes out the window as they have mens parts as well as womens parts. Or what about the ones who have had their boobs done but have not got their lower parts done yet. They are half women. Would that count? Or is it just the penis its self you have issues with? See the problem is you have a very narrow view about a subject that has very huge repercussions over a whole scope of different people. I could go on and ok with examples.

Well ... the condition where babies are born with both parts is quite rare, but I suppose that special consideration should be made for those with a birth defect such as that.

But my main concern is those who were born distinctly male or female, and it doesnt matter if you have fave boobs or not, if you have a penis, then you should use the gender appropriate bathroom.

What is strange is I dont see lesbian women demanding they have the right to use the men's facilities, or gay men clamoring to use the women's, even though they technically are of the same sexual orientation.

 

[release the hounds]

gay women don't view themselves as men, they just happen to be attracted to women. and gay men don't view themselves as women, they just happen to be attracted to men. gender identity is not the same as sexual attraction.

 

[NicoleLJ]

Well ... the condition where babies are born with both parts is quite rare, but I suppose that special consideration should be made for those with a birth defect such as that.

But my main concern is those who were born distinctly male or female, and it doesnt matter if you have fave boobs or not, if you have a penis, then you should use the gender appropriate bathroom.

What is strange is I dont see lesbian women demanding they have the right to use the men's facilities, or gay men clamoring to use the women's, even though they technically are of the same sexual orientation.

And you don't view it as a birth defect when someone who has a male brain but is born in a female body? Or someone born with a female brain is born with a male body? There is very little difference. All three have parts they don't see as being their gender. So if you are fine with those born with both sets using the bathroom of their chosen gender then there should be no reason why you should have any issue with trans people using the bathroom of their chosen gender. They are just getting the right to do so legally now(thank goodness for that).

As for your last paragraph it sadly shows how little you know about the LGBT community and the differences in them. Lesbian's are attracted to people of the same gender as they are. They are not in the wrong gender body. So they view themselves as the sex they were born to.

Gays same thing. They are attracted to their own gender and they view themselves as being the gender they were born too.

Bi-sexuals are attracted to both genders but still view themselves as the gender they were born too.

Trans genders are born in the wrong gender to what they view themselves as. They could be trans and still be straight, gay, lesbian or bi. As that has to do with sexual orientation and not how they view their body or gender. Hope that clears that up.

So there is no reason why LGB's would need to use the opposite bathroom to the gender they were born too. Hence why they don't have this issue. Trans people do and need everyones support. I would think any person who has even the smallest amount of empathy for others would want to do what they can to lower the suicide rate among the population that has been shown to have the highest risk of it.

 

[Locke]

What is strange is I dont see lesbian women demanding they have the right to use the men's facilities, or gay men clamoring to use the women's, even though they technically are of the same sexual orientation.

WHATTHEACTUAL****?

Most cis-gender women and men use public changerooms/bathrooms to change and/or use the toilet.
Most transgender women and men public changerooms/bathrooms to change and/or use the toilet. THEY ARE NOT TRYING TO GET A FREE ****ING SHOW! Stop sexualizing EVERYTHING the LGBTQ community fights for!!!

- Legalize gay marriage = EVERYONE IS GOING TO HAVE GAY SEX NOW!
- Allow trans people to use the proper washrooms = THEY JUST WANT TO STARE AT YOUNG GIRLS! PROTECT THE GIRLS!!!

Shut the **** up and educate yourself for **** sake.

 

[Dogdragoness]

WHATTHEACTUAL****?

Most cis-gender women and men use public changerooms/bathrooms to change and/or use the toilet.
Most transgender women and men public changerooms/bathrooms to change and/or use the toilet. THEY ARE NOT TRYING TO GET A FREE ****ING SHOW! Stop sexualizing EVERYTHING the LGBTQ community fights for!!!

- Legalize gay marriage = EVERYONE IS GOING TO HAVE GAY SEX NOW!
- Allow trans people to use the proper washrooms = THEY JUST WANT TO STARE AT YOUNG GIRLS! PROTECT THE GIRLS!!!

Shut the **** up and educate yourself for **** sake.

Okay ... scenario here:

Say a family who is from an area where this has not passed, say, a small town and they go to visit friends or family in a city where this is legal. They are out at the mall or whatever, kids have to use the restroom, a man dressed as a woman comes in, he LOOKS (well to a child) like a woman but he has "boy parts". Kid is scared and confused, probably traumatized.

What about school locker rooms and all that? I have heard that the cities that the gender rights bill passed in, it is now "okay" for boys who identify as girls to use girls school locker rooms as well, I can't believe any parent would be okay with this.

Maybe I am "old fashioned" and modest, and I am sorry, but the only man I want to be (or SHOULD be) naked in front of is my husband and if you think I am the only one with this opinion, then you haven't been on Facebook. There is just as much (if not more) opposition to this bill as there is support, and everyone I have talked to that is opposed and has spoken out has also been attacked, berated and bullied. I personally don't care what people say to (or about) me on the internet, I have a thick skin, because I have been interneting since the "wild west" days of the internet, they are just words on a screen, they don't bother me, and I am not going to be bullied into changing my view or opinion about this.

And for the record, I am not against gay marriage, I supported the bill that made gay marriage legal. Who someone marries, what religion they practice, etc ... does not affect me, but the the gender rights bill DOES affect me.

 

[BostonBanker]

Say a family who is from an area where this has not passed, say, a small town and they go to visit friends or family in a city where this is legal. They are out at the mall or whatever, kids have to use the restroom, a man dressed as a woman comes in, he LOOKS (well to a child) like a woman but he has "boy parts". Kid is scared and confused, probably traumatized.

I've been using public bathrooms for quite a few years now, and I have never once seen someone's "parts", male or female, in one. I'd be concerned if I were in a mall restroom and saw lady parts hanging around in there as well. I realize that is different for men - but if someone doesn't have "the parts" I assume they aren't going to be using a urinal anyway.

I'm on the list of people who are incredibly uncomfortable with changing rooms that don't have private places, to the point where I'm not sure I'd use one. But the bathroom thing confuses the heck out of me. Anything I do is done behind a closed door in a bathroom or stall. Anything anyone wants to do in the one next to me is up to them and doesn't affect me in any way.

And seriously, if a creep is looking for somewhere to assault me, they have a ton of options available besides a public bathroom. I'm no more worried there than I am anywhere else.

 

[Locke]

Okay ... scenario here:

Say a family who is from an area where this has not passed, say, a small town and they go to visit friends or family in a city where this is legal. They are out at the mall or whatever, kids have to use the restroom, a man dressed as a woman comes in, he LOOKS (well to a child) like a woman but he has "boy parts". Kid is scared and confused, probably traumatized.

What about school locker rooms and all that? I have heard that the cities that the gender rights bill passed in, it is now "okay" for boys who identify as girls to use girls school locker rooms as well, I can't believe any parent would be okay with this.

Maybe I am "old fashioned" and modest, and I am sorry, but the only man I want to be (or SHOULD be) naked in front of is my husband and if you think I am the only one with this opinion, then you haven't been on Facebook. There is just as much (if not more) opposition to this bill as there is support, and everyone I have talked to that is opposed and has spoken out has also been attacked, berated and bullied. I personally don't care what people say to (or about) me on the internet, I have a thick skin, because I have been interneting since the "wild west" days of the internet, they are just words on a screen, they don't bother me, and I am not going to be bullied into changing my view or opinion about this.

And for the record, I am not against gay marriage, I supported the bill that made gay marriage legal. Who someone marries, what religion they practice, etc ... does not affect me, but the the gender rights bill DOES affect me.

Do the restrooms in your area not have stalls? How do you see people's privates in a restroom?

And no, this law does not affect you at all. You've probably been to the restroom with trans people many times and never noticed, and it will stay that way.