just plain messy
- Thread starter FoxyWench
- Start date
Wow this thread just...sucks. Who knows what the truth is? What a shame someone appointed as a moderator is so dishonest.
That being said CKC (continental) will register anything that looks remotely purebred, so if she was indeed shown with them, it means about nothing.
Oops litters happen, but the OP had intended to breed these two dogs anyway as she stated herself, which to me screams that she doesn't care about anything but the monetary value of puppies, how sad is that.
That being said CKC (continental) will register anything that looks remotely purebred, so if she was indeed shown with them, it means about nothing.
Oops litters happen, but the OP had intended to breed these two dogs anyway as she stated herself, which to me screams that she doesn't care about anything but the monetary value of puppies, how sad is that.
I feel as though if you're obliged to post the latter quote, then you should feel conviction for the whole post, instead of just an isolated portion of it.("You don't truly owe us anything").
I also feel as though, and these are just intuitive feelings.. that Foxy wasn't really the type to do things for the sake of monetary value. Emotional value seems more fitting. She was compassionate to take in the kitten she found, despite her claim to be hard on funds. She also never wavered in the responsibility for her dogs. I feel as though she may wanted Ruby and Jasper to have puppies, honestly because she loved them so much.
But, who cares right? She hasn't returned, so now this thread is basically and honestly useless this time. Especially if she truly doesn't owe us anything.
I also feel as though, and these are just intuitive feelings.. that Foxy wasn't really the type to do things for the sake of monetary value. Emotional value seems more fitting. She was compassionate to take in the kitten she found, despite her claim to be hard on funds. She also never wavered in the responsibility for her dogs. I feel as though she may wanted Ruby and Jasper to have puppies, honestly because she loved them so much.
But, who cares right? She hasn't returned, so now this thread is basically and honestly useless this time. Especially if she truly doesn't owe us anything.
Crowsfeet, I have to agree with you on this one. It's the same thing on my end. Just a gut feeling with no evidence, but I get the sense that it was an emotional decision more than a rational one (i.e. she loved them and rationalized it, not a "I'm low on money and am going to breed a litter anyway") Cresties don't have many puppies per litter, and being a small breed there is a higher than average chance she could need a c section. Foxy knows those things.
Having both Strider and Kaia intact made me realize something. It's easy to be tempted. I do so love him, and he's healthy (his only health test so far was a thyroid test and he passed it). He's a great service dog and the selfish part of me wants more of him some day. I try to rationalize by saying "I could donate a bunch of his puppies to be trained! It would be helping others!" But in the end, I only want to do it for me, not for the breed. And that's not okay.
He's not the ideal match for Kaia. Honestly, Kaia is a MUCH better borzoi than him in a lot of ways. Her breeder would be extremely upset if they had an oops as well. For those reasons, and in part because of this whole drama with Jasper and Ruby, we've scheduled a neuter for Strider. He will be a better working dog when she's in season, and we won't have the risk of an oops happening or the temptation. A part of me is sad, but one of the reasons I am content with neutering him because Kaia shares a lot of the positive traits I love about him, and is missing a few of the negatives as well.
I really like foxy, and hope that some day she might feel ready to come back to chaz. I don't really feel like I can or should judge her actions, not being in her shoes and not knowing the truth. Hopefully, after the puppies are born and she's feeling less stressed about that, maybe? I can definitely understand someone prone to anxiety not wanting to add more internet anxiety right before a whelping.
Having both Strider and Kaia intact made me realize something. It's easy to be tempted. I do so love him, and he's healthy (his only health test so far was a thyroid test and he passed it). He's a great service dog and the selfish part of me wants more of him some day. I try to rationalize by saying "I could donate a bunch of his puppies to be trained! It would be helping others!" But in the end, I only want to do it for me, not for the breed. And that's not okay.
He's not the ideal match for Kaia. Honestly, Kaia is a MUCH better borzoi than him in a lot of ways. Her breeder would be extremely upset if they had an oops as well. For those reasons, and in part because of this whole drama with Jasper and Ruby, we've scheduled a neuter for Strider. He will be a better working dog when she's in season, and we won't have the risk of an oops happening or the temptation. A part of me is sad, but one of the reasons I am content with neutering him because Kaia shares a lot of the positive traits I love about him, and is missing a few of the negatives as well.
I really like foxy, and hope that some day she might feel ready to come back to chaz. I don't really feel like I can or should judge her actions, not being in her shoes and not knowing the truth. Hopefully, after the puppies are born and she's feeling less stressed about that, maybe? I can definitely understand someone prone to anxiety not wanting to add more internet anxiety right before a whelping.
By request I am moving this here.
To this:
Well to be fair I know several good breeders that place ads on places like puppyfind or nextdaypets even or the newspaper. Holding off judgment on anything else, advertising does not make a BYB. In fact, Mia's breeder has online ads placed too. I did not find her there, I met her before at shows. She's a mentor in the national breed cub, her dogs are being titled in multiple show and performance venues as well as going on to be service dogs and therapy dogs. I'm sure some people wouldn't agree with something she does like placing ads online, but I would go to her easily again for another dog.
I guess that's what it comes down to. Ethics vary between person to person. That said there is quite a bit about this whole thing that I find questionable and am not okay with.
To this:
Well to be fair I know several good breeders that place ads on places like puppyfind or nextdaypets even or the newspaper. Holding off judgment on anything else, advertising does not make a BYB. In fact, Mia's breeder has online ads placed too. I did not find her there, I met her before at shows. She's a mentor in the national breed cub, her dogs are being titled in multiple show and performance venues as well as going on to be service dogs and therapy dogs. I'm sure some people wouldn't agree with something she does like placing ads online, but I would go to her easily again for another dog.
I guess that's what it comes down to. Ethics vary between person to person. That said there is quite a bit about this whole thing that I find questionable and am not okay with.
the same can be said of mill puppies. they didn't ask to be born and are certainly deserving of good homes, but for every mill puppy purchased, more will be produced to fill that cage.
for me, it has nothing to do with the puppy and everything to do with supporting irresponsible breeding (and no, i don't believe it *was* an "oops" litter).
for me, it has nothing to do with the puppy and everything to do with supporting irresponsible breeding (and no, i don't believe it *was* an "oops" litter).
That's true, Laurelin. I think it can safely be said that those breeders who post there who are truly ethical are in the minority, and I would be interested in how many truly good homes they find from there.
Dekka, I didn't say that you couldn't defend her actions. I said that I couldn't. Couldn't and won't, but same difference.
You believe that Ruby is a service dog? I'm sorry, but after all the outright lies, I see that merely as another invention to make this ethical. And regardless, breeding one "maybe/possibly" worthy dog to a blatant pet still isn't ethical, responsible, or reputable.
I think all breeds should be bred ethically. I mean if people point out that all breeds should be trained, not just big dogs, (and I agree), then they can't say that breeding them shouldn't matter as much b/c they are toy breeds.
And the prices. Those are usually to make up the investment in titling and health testing. If those prices are there without any justification, then it's all just profit and a very STRONG motivator for this to happen again.
Dekka, I didn't say that you couldn't defend her actions. I said that I couldn't. Couldn't and won't, but same difference.
You believe that Ruby is a service dog? I'm sorry, but after all the outright lies, I see that merely as another invention to make this ethical. And regardless, breeding one "maybe/possibly" worthy dog to a blatant pet still isn't ethical, responsible, or reputable.
I think all breeds should be bred ethically. I mean if people point out that all breeds should be trained, not just big dogs, (and I agree), then they can't say that breeding them shouldn't matter as much b/c they are toy breeds.
And the prices. Those are usually to make up the investment in titling and health testing. If those prices are there without any justification, then it's all just profit and a very STRONG motivator for this to happen again.
An oops is an oops. I intended on the breeding that ended up being an oops... But that didn't make it less of an oops. So you have a breed known for silent heats, how does that make it less of an oops than if your mom wasn't vigilant?
I knew long before the oops happened that she planned on this breeding. But like way in the future.
@elegy. I don't think she is going to be pumping out more cresties cause 'the cage is empty'. Puppy mills to me are different than byb. But thats just me. I think everyone should be responsible for what they breed, more than any other breeder quality.
I knew long before the oops happened that she planned on this breeding. But like way in the future.
@elegy. I don't think she is going to be pumping out more cresties cause 'the cage is empty'. Puppy mills to me are different than byb. But thats just me. I think everyone should be responsible for what they breed, more than any other breeder quality.