John Green, Father of the Little Girl Killed in Tuscon, is my New Hero

[Renee750il]

Something I had not read before: Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1: Alexander Hamilton, Federalist, no. 31, 193--98

Disturbing rationalizations.

 

[motherofmany]

I've been given a bad grade before when I spoke out in class with a viewpoint that differs from a professors on certain subjects.

You have to do more than speak out in college. You need to prove your point. It isn't that your viewpoint differed. Everyone has opinions. School requires facts.

Income tax is theft. I can understand and agree with taxes on goods and services. Income tax is stealing money from me

.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

The constitutional process was followed and the requisite 36 state ratified. Not theft.

 

[Renee750il]

Theft is taking that which belongs to someone else. There is illegal theft and there is legalized theft. Legality often has very little to do with what is morally or ethically right.

 

[motherofmany]

Theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.

You don't like taxation but it is not theft because you don't like it. Nor is it immoral or unethical because it bothers you.

 

[Nechochwen]

You have to do more than speak out in college. You need to prove your point. It isn't that your viewpoint differed. Everyone has opinions. School requires facts.

:rofl1:

You think I don't know that? I shot down the teacher left and right with facts and ended up with a bad grade because I was supporting concealed carry on campus while she was "uncomfortable with it because it made her feel unsafe". Her position was inherently indefensible with facts and logic, she could only make emotional arguments against facts and statistics. She didn't like me because I called her out on the stupid things she said (of which there were many....).

 

[Nechochwen]

Theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.

You don't like taxation but it is not theft because you don't like it. Nor is it immoral or unethical because it bothers you.

I don't think you have consulted a dictionary very recently.

the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.

Theft | Define Theft at Dictionary.com

of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong;

Moral | Define Moral at Dictionary.com

pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.

Ethical | Define Ethical at Dictionary.com

Actually, it turns out that it is immoral and unethical "just because it bothers me". It bothers me because it's wrong, ergo it is immoral and unethical.

 

[Renee750il]

Perhaps you do not consider it unethical or immoral, but I do. Some taxation is, sadly, a necessary evil. Make it a form that the taxpayer has some control over, some say-so, i.e. sales tax. Tax us on what we CONSUME, what we SPEND, not what we EARN. That is so . . . wrong. And stop pissing the tax revenues away; hold legislators accountable for how they spend OUR money. Stop whitewashing lobbying -- call it what it is, bribery, which is both illegal and unethical. Put congress to work doing something useful: taking laws OFF the books instead of creating more miasma.

 

[motherofmany]

I don't think you have consulted a dictionary very recently.

Theft | Define Theft at Dictionary.com

Actually I gave the legal definition

 

[Nechochwen]

Actually I gave the legal definition

Who writes the 'legal' definition? Those who benefit most from being able to steal. Just because someone is legal does not mean that it is morally correct. Slavery, which has been brought up in this thread before, was legal for a very long time. Do you find it moral and ethical?

 

[Renee750il]

:rofl1:

You think I don't know that? I shot down the teacher left and right with facts and ended up with a bad grade because I was supporting concealed carry on campus while she was "uncomfortable with it because it made her feel unsafe". Her position was inherently indefensible with facts and logic, she could only make emotional arguments against facts and statistics. She didn't like me because I called her out on the stupid things she said (of which there were many....).

Oh, it can get quite ridiculous. I had a French teacher who docked every paper and every test I turned in one point because she didn't like where the accent was in my name.

That was one of those times when my French horn teacher/head of humanities stepped in. Her contract wasn't renewed the next semester. Dr. B. didn't tolerate petty egotism when he didn't have to.

 

[motherofmany]

Who writes the 'legal' definition? Those who benefit most from being able to steal. Just because someone is legal does not mean that it is morally correct. Slavery, which has been brought up in this thread before, was legal for a very long time. Do you find it moral and ethical?

WTF? You think the legal definition of theft is influenced by some nefarious plot to impose income taxes?

What do you think the word "larceny" from your definition means?

What about this one?

Theft - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


This is just silliness. I am done.

 

[Nechochwen]

This is just silliness. I am done.

I win!


[/thread]

 

[Renee750il]

Who writes the 'legal' definition? Those who benefit most from being able to steal. Just because someone is legal does not mean that it is morally correct. Slavery, which has been brought up in this thread before, was legal for a very long time. Do you find it moral and ethical?

Or chattel laws, for that matter. Moral? Ethical?

"Jim Crow" laws?

These things were legal. The government told us so.

 

[Romy]

Perhaps you do not consider it unethical or immoral, but I do. Some taxation is, sadly, a necessary evil. Make it a form that the taxpayer has some control over, some say-so, i.e. sales tax. Tax us on what we CONSUME, what we SPEND, not what we EARN. That is so . . . wrong. And stop pissing the tax revenues away; hold legislators accountable for how they spend OUR money. Stop whitewashing lobbying -- call it what it is, bribery, which is both illegal and unethical. Put congress to work doing something useful: taking laws OFF the books instead of creating more miasma.

That's one thing I like about my state. No income tax. We have sales tax. And we just voted in a new law saying all new taxes must be approved by the voters. Win. The governor is having a hissy fit.

 

[Renee750il]

We don't have a state income tax either, Romy. Trying to institute one here would be political suicide -- just ask former Gov. Sundquist

 

[corgipower]

There are several who have holed up at my home when they hit bad times who seemed to think it was both helpful and practical.

With four high energy dogs who bark way too much and don't play well with others?

Besides, TN might be doable for me, CO absolutely isn't.

 

[Doberluv]

You seem to have been under the impression that all are required to accept figures and numbers, graphs and glyphs as the final answers to all argument. That's not going to happen. We're dealing with human beings and those parameters won't fit. There are too many wild cards, too much manipulation, paradox and outright falsity. Until we are all programmable and mathematically predictable it is a snare and a delusion to believe all the answers lie therein. (Gods, it pains me to end a sentence with a preposition.)

Kudos on obtaining your education. I'm but a poor, ignorant cumhal with naught in the way of sheepskins and such, the only one in my family with no education.

Until we are all programmable and mathematically predictable, it is a snare and a delusion to believe therein lie all the answers.

Better?

 

[Beanie]

That's one thing I like about my state. No income tax. We have sales tax. And we just voted in a new law saying all new taxes must be approved by the voters. Win. The governor is having a hissy fit.

Considering Illinois just passed a 66% increase on our state income tax... I am quite jealous.
It sort of seems like common sense that a new tax should need to be approved by the voters. Wish we had the opportunity to vote on it. Ugh.

 

[Doberluv]

And the western part of Washington, east of the cascades is full of raging liberals. That is ONE win.

Well...I've enjoyed catching up on this thrad from where I left off yesterday afternoon. It's been as bracing as a morning swim in Puget Sound.What a way to start the day!

Renee, Buckshot, RD, Nech & others....invigorating!! :hail:

 

[Dekka]

Perhaps you do not consider it unethical or immoral, but I do. Some taxation is, sadly, a necessary evil. Make it a form that the taxpayer has some control over, some say-so, i.e. sales tax. Tax us on what we CONSUME, what we SPEND, not what we EARN. That is so . . . wrong. And stop pissing the tax revenues away; hold legislators accountable for how they spend OUR money. Stop whitewashing lobbying -- call it what it is, bribery, which is both illegal and unethical. Put congress to work doing something useful: taking laws OFF the books instead of creating more miasma.

I agree with this. The only problem is that there needs to be some way for people (take students for example) who are working hard at getting some where yet are at the poverty line. They don't have time to grow food for themselves (a possible by product of less consumption) they wouldn't be able to afford higher sales taxes on necessary items.

Over all high sales taxes would be great on many levels if it corresponded with no income tax.