Cropped/Docked or Natural?
- Thread starter sillysally
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Thanks AdrianneIsabel for the links - so interesting! I remember reading about the tax thing somewhere but never could find it again.
You know, I get being passionate about something and having strong feelings about it. I'll get in to knock down drag outs over some stuff, cropping and docking, while I'm not really a fan, isn't something I'll get worked up about (plenty of other stuff I will though
).
But to say something like the above is almost an accusation towards the DOG. If a dog came to me in need, I don't give a rat's behind what the dog looks like. In fact right now in my home I have the ugliest bat eared, missing teeth, crooked legged, flat footed, haw eyed, sway backed mess of a dog with a heart of gold. I don't see his bad breeding when I look at him or any other "defect". I see the happy dog he has become and he is beyond gorgeous in my eyes.
You know, I get being passionate about something and having strong feelings about it. I'll get in to knock down drag outs over some stuff, cropping and docking, while I'm not really a fan, isn't something I'll get worked up about (plenty of other stuff I will though
). But to say something like the above is almost an accusation towards the DOG. If a dog came to me in need, I don't give a rat's behind what the dog looks like. In fact right now in my home I have the ugliest bat eared, missing teeth, crooked legged, flat footed, haw eyed, sway backed mess of a dog with a heart of gold. I don't see his bad breeding when I look at him or any other "defect". I see the happy dog he has become and he is beyond gorgeous in my eyes.
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You know, I get being passionate about something and having strong feelings about it. I'll get in to knock down drag outs over some stuff, cropping and docking, while I'm not really a fan, isn't something I'll get worked up about (plenty of other stuff I will though ).
But to say something like the above is almost an accusation towards the DOG. If a dog came to me in need, I don't give a rat's behind what the dog looks like. In fact right now in my home I have the ugliest bat eared, missing teeth, crooked legged, flat footed, haw eyed, sway backed mess of a dog with a heart of gold. I don't see his bad breeding when I look at him or any other "defect". I see the happy dog he has become and he is beyond gorgeous in my eyes.
). But to say something like the above is almost an accusation towards the DOG. If a dog came to me in need, I don't give a rat's behind what the dog looks like. In fact right now in my home I have the ugliest bat eared, missing teeth, crooked legged, flat footed, haw eyed, sway backed mess of a dog with a heart of gold. I don't see his bad breeding when I look at him or any other "defect". I see the happy dog he has become and he is beyond gorgeous in my eyes.
I just added a pic for clarity. I meant to add it when I posted, but I got trigger happy. ( also I was writing a 5 page paper for my class at the same time. Yay multitasking!)
I meant to add it when I posted, but I got trigger happy. ( also I was writing a 5 page paper for my class at the same time. Yay multitasking!)
Saga is beautimous! Pitty about the ears
Just saw that and did a double take thinking this ancient computer didn't load it the first time, then I'd REALLY look dumb
Saga is beautimous! Pitty about the ears
Saga is beautimous! Pitty about the ears
(But yeah - another example of a passive aggressive, underhanded way to insult a dog..... pit about the ears.)
I REALLY like and appreciate that aspect of it. I also like that it's a short, utilitarian type of crop. Purely from a laziness standpoint, I don't want to post ears.
At this point I want my dogs as natural as possible regarding those things. I want dewclaws, tails, ears, and at least the males will be left intact. I don't even think I'd tape ears again at this point- just more pain than it's worth to me. That and I think wonky ears look more interesting.
I find huskies to be the hardest to read. No idea why but I just have a very hard time reading the spitz types and I find myself a bit more wary around them.
I also wanted to add that papillons definitely don't tend to do the side to side wagging tails. Mia does the entire body wagging but the others all just shake their tails very quickly. No wagging at all. Of course Mia does this drawn out, overly expressive happy butt.
I agree and I have to say Trav pulls off the merle very nicely! I find with merle it's either a love or a hate with me, it really depends on the dog and the pattern on that specific dog, lol.
At this point I want my dogs as natural as possible regarding those things. I want dewclaws, tails, ears, and at least the males will be left intact. I don't even think I'd tape ears again at this point- just more pain than it's worth to me. That and I think wonky ears look more interesting.
I find huskies to be the hardest to read. No idea why but I just have a very hard time reading the spitz types and I find myself a bit more wary around them.
I also wanted to add that papillons definitely don't tend to do the side to side wagging tails. Mia does the entire body wagging but the others all just shake their tails very quickly. No wagging at all. Of course Mia does this drawn out, overly expressive happy butt.
I agree and I have to say Trav pulls off the merle very nicely! I find with merle it's either a love or a hate with me, it really depends on the dog and the pattern on that specific dog, lol.
SO, so true! I think a lot of it for me is based on each individual dog. I'm not usually a fan of toys but I just LOVE Rose for some reason. I find all your Papillons attractive, even though they're not a breed I'd ever own.
That's why I never say, "I don't like XYZ." I'll say, "I typically don't like XYZ, buuut...."
And on ears for Dobes, this type of ear breaks my heart.
And to think, one of our vets actually said to me, "Well at least he has a nice crop!" ... SCUSE ME? You think that is a nice crop for a Doberman?
I would have much rather seen him with natural ears. But he's a rescue, so we have no say, so I never held it against him that his ears were done by someone with no artistic ability.
That's why I never say, "I don't like XYZ." I'll say, "I typically don't like XYZ, buuut...."
And on ears for Dobes, this type of ear breaks my heart.
And to think, one of our vets actually said to me, "Well at least he has a nice crop!" ... SCUSE ME? You think that is a nice crop for a Doberman?
I would have much rather seen him with natural ears. But he's a rescue, so we have no say, so I never held it against him that his ears were done by someone with no artistic ability.
SO, so true! I think a lot of it for me is based on each individual dog. I'm not usually a fan of toys but I just LOVE Rose for some reason. I find all your Papillons attractive, even though they're not a breed I'd ever own.
That's why I never say, "I don't like XYZ." I'll say, "I typically don't like XYZ, buuut...."
And on ears for Dobes, this type of ear breaks my heart.
And to think, one of our vets actually said to me, "Well at least he has a nice crop!" ... SCUSE ME? You think that is a nice crop for a Doberman?
I would have much rather seen him with natural ears. But he's a rescue, so we have no say, so I never held it against him that his ears were done by someone with no artistic ability.
That's why I never say, "I don't like XYZ." I'll say, "I typically don't like XYZ, buuut...."
And on ears for Dobes, this type of ear breaks my heart.
And to think, one of our vets actually said to me, "Well at least he has a nice crop!" ... SCUSE ME? You think that is a nice crop for a Doberman?
I would have much rather seen him with natural ears. But he's a rescue, so we have no say, so I never held it against him that his ears were done by someone with no artistic ability.
And on ears for Dobes, this type of ear breaks my heart.
And to think, one of our vets actually said to me, "Well at least he has a nice crop!" ... SCUSE ME? You think that is a nice crop for a Doberman?
I would have much rather seen him with natural ears. But he's a rescue, so we have no say, so I never held it against him that his ears were done by someone with no artistic ability.
And to think, one of our vets actually said to me, "Well at least he has a nice crop!" ... SCUSE ME? You think that is a nice crop for a Doberman?
I would have much rather seen him with natural ears. But he's a rescue, so we have no say, so I never held it against him that his ears were done by someone with no artistic ability.
Right after I lost my Doberman to cancer, I wrote a bunch of poems about him. He was such an expressive dog with a huge personality. We connected amazingly and it wasn't any mystery what that tail told. I loved every bit of him and his cute, little tail whispered to me all the time. So, if people don't see the expressiveness and life come out in cropped or docked dogs, they must be missing something.
That Dober Tail
A mile a minute it would go,
That Dober stub of a tail,
It didn’t sway in easy flow,
But things stayed on the table.
How expressive, that Dober tail,
Inside his mind I’d know,
Humor abounded without fail,
Back and forth, that Dober tail,
Wish he didn’t go.
Upright ears have a superior cone of hearing and can pin point the direction from which sound is coming from more accurately and keenly than drop ears. Since Dobermans, for one, are a protection breed, (whether they're "labeled" as "working" or not) this is part of the whole deal. The argument that because a dog is a "pet" and therefore is not "working," is not right because a pet that is a protection breed is always working. That's the nature of the breed. So, I don't get the attempt at making a distinction between a working protection dog and a non - working protection dog. They're temperaments and traits are present in the breed. The reasons for cropping and docking are the same.
That Dober Tail
A mile a minute it would go,
That Dober stub of a tail,
It didn’t sway in easy flow,
But things stayed on the table.
How expressive, that Dober tail,
Inside his mind I’d know,
Humor abounded without fail,
Back and forth, that Dober tail,
Wish he didn’t go.
Upright ears have a superior cone of hearing and can pin point the direction from which sound is coming from more accurately and keenly than drop ears. Since Dobermans, for one, are a protection breed, (whether they're "labeled" as "working" or not) this is part of the whole deal. The argument that because a dog is a "pet" and therefore is not "working," is not right because a pet that is a protection breed is always working. That's the nature of the breed. So, I don't get the attempt at making a distinction between a working protection dog and a non - working protection dog. They're temperaments and traits are present in the breed. The reasons for cropping and docking are the same.
I disagree.
Personally, I can find one feature of a dog, a horse, or a person unattractive and still find them beautiful. Ears, IMHO, do not make or break a dog, they are just one feature, like color, etc. As a stated before I am not a fan of crops on APBTs or amstaffs. However, I love watching the amstaffs at the shows we go to because I think they are gorgeous, awesome dogs. I don't think that makes me a hypocrite, it just makes me someone who is capable of seeing past a feature that I do not prefer. I would like it better if all the amstaffs at the show had their natural ears (by exhibitor choice-NOT by law--again, I'm pro-choice)--wonky or not--because I prefer natural ears, BUT I still find the dogs to be gorgeous because the ears are only one feature of the overall animal. If I do see one whose looks I'm not that into it has nothing to do with the dog's ears.
Color is the same way. My least favorite color of labs is the very, very light chocolate--I feel that it looks washed out and was very, VERY thankful that Jack grew up to be as dark as his adult sister. But, I have seen some very nice looking labs that happened to be that light chocolate color and I still find the dog to be good looking even if it my least favorite color.
To give a humans example--I think Jennifer Lopez is amazingly beautiful. If she shaved her head tomorrow, I can pretty safely say that even though I prefer her with hair, she would still be amazingly beautiful.
Personally, I can find one feature of a dog, a horse, or a person unattractive and still find them beautiful. Ears, IMHO, do not make or break a dog, they are just one feature, like color, etc. As a stated before I am not a fan of crops on APBTs or amstaffs. However, I love watching the amstaffs at the shows we go to because I think they are gorgeous, awesome dogs. I don't think that makes me a hypocrite, it just makes me someone who is capable of seeing past a feature that I do not prefer. I would like it better if all the amstaffs at the show had their natural ears (by exhibitor choice-NOT by law--again, I'm pro-choice)--wonky or not--because I prefer natural ears, BUT I still find the dogs to be gorgeous because the ears are only one feature of the overall animal. If I do see one whose looks I'm not that into it has nothing to do with the dog's ears.
Color is the same way. My least favorite color of labs is the very, very light chocolate--I feel that it looks washed out and was very, VERY thankful that Jack grew up to be as dark as his adult sister. But, I have seen some very nice looking labs that happened to be that light chocolate color and I still find the dog to be good looking even if it my least favorite color.
To give a humans example--I think Jennifer Lopez is amazingly beautiful. If she shaved her head tomorrow, I can pretty safely say that even though I prefer her with hair, she would still be amazingly beautiful.
As far as uncropped dogs looking less intimidating or less "aggressive", IDK....I think that a large segment of the population is just freaked out by large dark colored dogs. I've had people apparently very intimidated (everything from walking off the sidewalk or across the street to avoid us to outright freaking out, swearing, etc) by this face...If labs were cropped imagine the panic in my neighborhood!:yikes:
Dunnn, dunnnnn, dunnnnnnnnnnnnn......
Dunnn, dunnnnn, dunnnnnnnnnnnnn......
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Or just dogs in general. I get more "OMG HE LOOKS SO MEAN!" about Wilson than I ever have about Sako. Of course, that's probably due to his breed, but I really don't understand how anyone can think he "looks" mean.. it's probably because he's more reserved and doesn't turn into a giant wiggle butt when someone greets him. People take that as "mean".. um, no, he's a therapy dog, he's not supposed to go nuts when greeted LOL. I've actually never had any negative comments about Sako.. people are always asking me where I got him cropped, not telling me I'm evil for doing so.
Oh FWIW, my brother gets the same comments occasionally about his GIANT (I'm talking Great Dane sized) chocolate Lab. People are weird.
Oh I have thick skin, you have to when you own Pit Bulls.. since you're constantly being told your dog IS going to rip your face off at any minute and no, you can't bring your TDI dog to this hospital because it might harm a child. I don't think I'd survive over on my other forum if I didn't either.. this place is rainbows & butterflies compared to over there!
However, I still find it rude when someone flat out insults my specific dog, when I didn't ask for a critique and when I don't think any other dogs were specifically pointed out (unless posted by their owners) in this thread. I'm not going to go cry about it, obviously, but still rather off putting.
Oh FWIW, my brother gets the same comments occasionally about his GIANT (I'm talking Great Dane sized) chocolate Lab. People are weird.
Oh I have thick skin, you have to when you own Pit Bulls.. since you're constantly being told your dog IS going to rip your face off at any minute and no, you can't bring your TDI dog to this hospital because it might harm a child. I don't think I'd survive over on my other forum if I didn't either.. this place is rainbows & butterflies compared to over there!
However, I still find it rude when someone flat out insults my specific dog, when I didn't ask for a critique and when I don't think any other dogs were specifically pointed out (unless posted by their owners) in this thread. I'm not going to go cry about it, obviously, but still rather off putting.
I didn't say anything like that. And I didn't see where anyone did. Neither Tipper or Mu have tails and all I said is that it would be helpful for ME (and probably for them interacting with other dogs) if they did. I didn't say they weren't still expressive. I feel mildly insulted, like you just said I can't see past my dog's lack of tail to see their personality....probably just because it's early and I haven't had any caffeine. Lol.
Neither Tipper or Mu have tails and all I said is that it would be helpful for ME (and probably for them interacting with other dogs) if they did. I didn't say they weren't still expressive. I feel mildly insulted, like you just said I can't see past my dog's lack of tail to see their personality....probably just because it's early and I haven't had any caffeine. Lol.