Cropped/Docked or Natural?

[Cheza]

I don't really have a preference on most dogs with regard to cropping... but it needs to be done well. I've seen so many dogs with horrible crops that don't stand up, have ragged edges etc. It ruins the entire picture.

I can go either way but Nel's crop is really nice so it doesn't detract from anything, and I would say she's actually more expressive since the little subtleties of her ears moving are amplified by the satellite dishes on top of her head. In the relaxed pose like the other two in the picture, she looks like Yoda which is also awesome.

As for docking, nubbin tails are just as neat as huge, smack you in the balls (if you have them) tails, whether they're natural or not.

I got Nel cropped already though, I'm not sure I could personally do that to a puppy butttttt if I ever have another dog that is competing, I would push to have it cropped by the breeder.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Cheza. Nel is so drool worthy!!!

 

[StillandSilent]

I like the look of a cropped Dobe, though I would not personally have it done. Then, I wouldn't choose a Dobe anyway, so I guess its a moot point!

I really like long tails on every dog.

 

[stafinois]

I prefer the look of your other two pups if I'm being 100% truthful. Sako is cute, but the ears look abnormal to me. They look too small for his head.

Just out of curiosity, do you think that my dog's ears look too small, too? They are smaller than Sako's, but his head structure is much different.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Grant is just so Drool worthy as well. I have to admit even on Pit Bulls and Am staffs well bull breeds in general I like the cropped looked better than the floppy ears.

And I think Grants ears fit his head perfectly

 

[Dizzy]

Just out of curiosity, do you think that my dog's ears look too small, too? They are smaller than Sako's, but his head structure is much different.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fSMbMtpGIV4/Tevrcy6_AAI/AAAAAAABWO8/1wBE1gq-jaY/s400/collargrant.[/QUOTE]

To ME they're more aesthetically pleasing, but I'm not a fan of crops full stop. I can see when one has been done well, some look ok, but I can't say I'd be sorry if cropping was banned world wide, I MUCH prefer natural ears and tails.

 

[kady05]

It's just an honest opinion. He really doesn't look that good with cropped ears. I would have never mentioned it if it already wasn't, but being the opinion was out, ding ding!

Well, let's all jump on the bash other posters dogs bandwagon then, by all means! Jeesh.

Ok Sako is not my dog, but I find that very, very rude. I think Sako looks like a handsom devil.

Glad I'm not the only one.. there really is no need to point out a specific dog and say "Ew, that dogs ears look weird and are too small". You aren't a fan of cropping? Fine. But don't go bashing my dog. I suppose I could see someone pointing him out specifically if they were some kind of hack job, like my friends dog (a rescue, she didn't do this to her):

Or if I specifically asked "What do you think of Sako's crop?"

I love the admittance of cowardice behavior. "Since someone said it before me I now have the back up power to say how I really feel."

Isn't it funny how that works on forums?

 

[Dizzy]

It's a cropping thread, on an internet forum.... With pics posted in threads, sigs etc. If you want to police what people say, prob not best to put pics online.

I've been told bodhi is ugly before now... They can think what they like. But I accept not everyone is going to see things the same way I do. I don't see how saying you dislike something is "bashing". You're obviously not going to agree, its your dog, just like I didn't agree bodhi is ugly

 

[PWCorgi]

Threadjacking LEGIT QUESTION alert

Why are so many herding breeds docked (corgis, vallhunds, aussies, OES, ACDs, etc)? And why are other breeds not (collies, BCs, shepherds, shelties, etc)?

Is it to stop them from injury? In case a big oaf of a cow steps on them? It seems like cattle dogs are docked more often than sheepdogs. But if dogs use them as rudders, like elegy said, wouldn't that detract from their working ability?

I've seen few dogs able to take as sharp, quick turns as a corgi can, but I think their height plays a huge factor in that.

ETA: I read once that corgis were docked so that they would not be confused with foxes running in fields and shot at. Not sure how much truth is in that statement though.

 

[kady05]

It's a cropping thread, on an internet forum.... With pics posted in threads, sigs etc. If you want to police what people say, prob not best to put pics online.

I've been told bodhi is ugly before now... They can think what they like. But I accept not everyone is going to see things the same way I do. I don't see how saying you dislike something is "bashing". You're obviously not going to agree, its your dog, just like I didn't agree bodhi is ugly

I get that it's a public forum, but again, I didn't ask for opinions on his crop on THIS thread. I haven't posted any pictures in this thread. Personally, being on forums for years, I don't call people out when they're not asking for an opinion of their dog. Now, if I post a thread titled "What do you think of Sako's crop?" then by all means, tell me it's ugly all day if you want. I don't think it's ugly, no. I think Piper's ears are ridiculous and can't stand them most days, I have no problem critiquing my dogs when it's called for.

 

[Linds]

It's a cropping thread, on an internet forum.... With pics posted in threads, sigs etc. If you want to police what people say, prob not best to put pics online.

I've been told bodhi is ugly before now... They can think what they like. But I accept not everyone is going to see things the same way I do. I don't see how saying you dislike something is "bashing". You're obviously not going to agree, its your dog, just like I didn't agree bodhi is ugly

Yeah but there comes a point where you are just needlessly being cruel and down right mean. You don't have to like a dogs looks but you certainly don't need to callously say it like was said.

There is a difference between saying that you don't like the overall look a crop gives and naming specific dogs that you think were made ugly because of it. I don't think Sarah was mean at all in what she said just like I don't get offended what Laur says she's typically not a fan of merle. The ears, the color, the build ect are all just parts of a dog and everyone has their preferences. That's why I don't think saying "I think crops are ugly" is out of line or even rude because that's just one part of the bigger picture of any dog.

But, I find it rude and uncalled for to name specific dogs and call them out as ugly just for the sake of doing so. The old "If you don't have anything nice to say...." comes to mind.

 

[Zoom]

Threadjacking LEGIT QUESTION alert

Why are so many herding breeds docked (corgis, vallhunds, aussies, OES, ACDs, etc)? And why are other breeds not (collies, BCs, shepherds, shelties, etc)?

Is it to stop them from injury? In case a big oaf of a cow steps on them? It seems like cattle dogs are docked more often than sheepdogs. But if dogs use them as rudders, like elegy said, wouldn't that detract from their working ability?

I've seen few dogs able to take as sharp, quick turns as a corgi can, but I think their height plays a huge factor in that.

ETA: I read once that corgis were docked so that they would not be confused with foxes running in fields and shot at. Not sure how much truth is in that statement though.

I think part of it might be type of stock and part of it terrain. OES I imagine were docked because seriously, that hair??? The tails would be nothing but a constant matted stick. A lot of the other cattle type dogs were developed for terrain that is very full of prickly brush, sticker bushes, etc. that would snag up a tail very easily. And in breeds with the NBT gene, it was also customarily done to provide a uniform look to the breed. I've seen some natural 1/2- 3/4 tails on Aussies and they look HORRIBLE. Full tail, while they look "weird" to me, look so much better than something in between. So if there isn't a full tail, I'd rather lop it off and keep a uniform look going.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

PW most of that can be explained historically and much of it is not because it effected their working ability.

The corgi for example:

During one period around the 10th century peasants were only allowed to keep small dogs for the destruction of vermin. Hired keepers, shepherds and herdsmen were also allowed to keep their dogs, but all dogs were required to be mutilated in some way to prevent poaching of the royal game. Some of these mutilations were quite severe (usually to the feet), but the herdsman's dog was required only to have his tail docked, or cur-tailed, so as not to interfere with his working ability.

The rest of the quote for those of interest:

The people tried to evade this law, but penalties were severe and the monies from these fines were a welcome source of revenue to the crown. When these laws became unworkable, the crown then levied a tax on dogs. Realizing that the peasants could not pay these taxes, nor could they live without the help of a dog for certain tasks, an exemption from tax for dogs used for a purpose was provided. The shepherd or herdsman's dog was still exempt from this tax if his tail was docked. This interesting history is often put forward as to why the Pem has a docked tail, but these laws dealt more with the English Forest laws than with the Welsh. Since much truth is often found in legend, it is also told that the Pem was docked so as not to confuse it with the fox. The most probable reason for docking Pems is that the Pembroke had a naturally occurring bob-tail and since many pups in a litter would be born with natural bobtails, the others were docked, as well, for the sake of uniformity. This bobtail gene is being specifically bred for again, especially in the United Kingdom and also in the Scandinavian countries where docking has been banned by the government. (Please note: docking has NOT been banned in the UK! Docking may be done by a licensed veterinarian in that country.)

History of the PWC

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Aussies...

Why Are Aussie’s Tails Docked?
People often ask, “Why is the Australian Shepherd’s tail docked? Some of the reasons are tradition, identification, cosmetic, and function.

Tail docking has most likely occurred since ancient times. It has been written that the Romans docked tails because they believed, though erroneously, that the muscles in the dog’s tail were a cause of rabies.

In the late 1790s, a tax law was introduced on dogs to help fund the French wars. Working dogs were the exemption and were docked to signify their status. This practice was also in place in Great Britain.

Woods Natural History, published in London in 1865, lends insight into the historical practice of tail docking. “The tail of the Sheep-dog is naturally long and bushy, but is generally removed in early youth, on account of the now obsolete laws, which refused to acknowledge any Dog as a Sheep-dog, or to exempt it from tax, unless it were deprived of its tail. This law, however often defeated its own object, for many persons who liked the sport of coursing, and cared little for appearances, used to cut off the tails of their greyhounds, and evade the tax by describing them as Sheep-dogs.â€

As dogs assisted man in the field, herding or hunting, their tails could be a magnate for foxtails and a host of other burrs and stickers, which could cause trauma to the tail. Consequently, tail docking was implemented to avoid injury and infection. This is one of the reasons natural bobtails were valued and bred for.

As dog shows became fashionable in the mid 1800’s with the establishment of the Kennel Club, tails of some breeds were docked as an identifying characteristic. Even today, in breeds with congenital bobtails, the tail is sometimes shortened to enhance a more symmetrical appearance, creating a classic silhouette for the show ring.

Why is the Aussie’s tail docked? The clearest answer I can give is that it is probably tradition and that it is stated in the breed standard that: “An identifying characteristic is the natural or docked bobtail.â€

OES...

The OES is one of the few dog breeds in which the tail is completely removed. Historically speaking, the practice of tail removal has two roots. First of all, tail docking was a common practice among herdsmen of England. Herding dogs were considered working dogs and working dogs were tax exempt. Tail docking made it easier to identify tax exempt dogs from taxable dogs. During this time period all herding dogs were referred to as "Bobtails", or "Bobs", a nickname that has been continued to be used by fanciers of the OES.
The second reason that OES were traditionally tail docked was that many herdsmen felt that without a tail the dogs would be less agile, due to the idea that the tail was needed for balance and to serve as a rudder. The developers of the OES did not want a fast, agile dog that could possibly run down lambs, they preferred a dog that would direct the flock at a slower, more steady pace.
The OES was registered by the A.K.C. in 1885. The Old English Sheepdog was initially shown as a variety of Collie. In 1904 the OES Club of America was formed and these dogs have been recognized as an individual breed ever since.

 

[Dizzy]

It's my opinion, I'm not going to change it. I never called any dog ugly, far from it, I said he's cute. I appreciate what you're saying, I just don't agree in THIS context. I like the dog, I don't like the crop. Big wow. I'm pretty sure that's not going to cause mental distress too long lasting. The dog is overall cute though, and like i said earlier, I'd have him in a heartbeat.

 

[Linds]

It's my opinion, I'm not going to change it. I never called any dog ugly, far from it, I said he's cute. I appreciate what you're saying, I just don't agree in THIS context. I like the dog, I don't like the crop. Big wow. I'm pretty sure that's not going to cause mental distress too long lasting. The dog is overall cute though, and like i said earlier, I'd have him in a heartbeat.

And I wasn't referring to what you said, more what BrindeyPug said which I found to be pretty rude.

 

[PWCorgi]

Thanks Zoom and Adrianne!

 

[joce]

I think corgis tails are docked because while eating horse poop and ignoring the horses the horses tend to look for a tail to nibble on

I thought it had to do with taxes years ago with farm dogs? And I knew a jack russel breeder who would show her dogs off by pulling them out of holes by their tails?!

My girl was born without a tail I believe.

I can not remember if I commented or not in this-I like a dock on any breed that regularly has it. Crop on dobes. I'd rather see a floppy ear than a bad crop though.

My poor husky had her tail slammed in the door as a pup and at thirteen still will not let me touch it Hairy, nasty mess of a tail We were extra careful with Blitz-he just runs his whole body into things.

 

[kady05]

And I wasn't referring to what you said, more what BrindeyPug said which I found to be pretty rude.

They were both rude IMO, although BrindeyPug was worse, I agree. Dizzy just started off with the compliment of "He's cute" to try to "soften the blow", so to speak.

 

[Dizzy]

They were both rude IMO, although BrindeyPug was worse, I agree. Dizzy just started off with the compliment of "He's cute" to try to "soften the blow", so to speak.

Trust me, I'm not well known for my tact.

I'd take a comment from me as it is intended rather than try and inject a sinister meaning to suit your need. If I wanted to cause a "blow" I certainly wouldn't attempt to soften it.