Who says you can't protest a puppy store.

FoxyWench

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Puppystores care about PROFIT...i already listed some of those outrageous sales prices!
puppies get basic vet care from a vet who works deals out with the store. it costs the store $5 a puppy for their 2 weekly "once over" and then a huge discount on shots. in exchange the puppystore reccomends that vet for your puppy after the sale... (vets are business men too)
if a puppy is VERY sick they would rather let it die in the back than deal with vet costs...
many puppy stores have their own "medical kit" (PLEASE NOTE THIS IS ILLEGAL IN MOST STATES! medication MUST be perscribed by a vet for a specific puppy, puppy shop owners/workers are breaking the law self treating their animals)
but its CHEAPER to treat a ringworm case with some athletes foot cream than have the vet look, its cheaper to treat that eye infection with a little human ointment than get the stuff from the vet...its less hassle to give the puppy sub q fluids yourself...(despite this being incredibly dangerous!) and its easier to let it die and claim your money back than try and have the vet treat it.
this is not an exageration

-pet stores forge documents.
one store i worked at had a case of "puppy illness" this was a bull terrier the store owner had paid big bucks for, a high ticket dog...and hunte was refusing to refund without a vets cert that the dog was sick when it arrived.
so off the puppy whent to the vets, the next day 2 other puppies form the same batch fell sick...same symptms...but they were "cheap" no need for vet care, well find out whats wrong with the expensive one and treat them all the same. 2 days later puppy #2 died, the next day #3, the stentch unmistakable, Parvo (and anyone thats ever smelt a puppy dying of parvo can tell you...THAT is the smell of death...its horrible!)
anyways, the following day a fax comes through...the bull terrier had died at the vets office of parvo (SUPRISE).
now petsotres have a book, mandated by each state, in this book ALL the puppies comming in have the information entered, the shipping number, the distributor (please note hunte is a distributor not a mill, there are no litters born on hunte property!)
the origional "breeder", USDA registration numbers, vets records ect.
this is the book that the USDA inspector looks at on every visit to make sure theres nothign crazy going on.

strangely enough, after a confirmed parvo case, the page that this and the other 2 puppies that passed away of parvo, along with 5 other pupes was suddenly GONE and rewritten...suddenly the 3 dead dogs NEVER EXISTED...they were removed from the computer, from the system and the official report was destroyed.
the owner would rather cover up a hihgly contagious dises than shut down for the mandetory 3 days for proper cleaning.

again this is not "extreemist" this stuff happend on a daily basis, cooking the books, changing descriptions, forging vets signatures, self medicating...all illegal, immoral and dangerous.
(that sotre was the one that broke me #6 and i was done, i couldnt even do the undercover stuff anymore...i filled my last report!...i couldnt handle seeing those dogs as nothing more than little meat sacks filled with money...)

-pet stores do NOT care about the puppy or YOU!
as long as you buy a puppy they dont care if itll be a good match for the family, they dont care what'll happen to the dog after it leaves the store, and they dont care whether 3 months down the line your new puppy, get sick, develops a temperment issue or genetic condition...
seeing a family with a toddler looking for a "hypoalergenic dog" take home a lab because "labs dont shed much and they dont get that big" (the lab was also priced at $1800 and pet store associates get paid a nice commission on the puppy sales...that was an extrea $180 to her pay check.

everyone wanted to sell the expensive ones...cause it was more money for them...
an APBT (who had had to be moved into a pen alone because he was "overly playfull" with his kennel mates, going home to a family with 4 other dogs (he was put down 6 months later when he tore their poodle apart)
or a first time dog owner being sent home with a DOGO because she "liked the look of cropped ears and wanted a "scary looking breed" He turned up in a shelter about a year later if i recal because she couldnt handle how agressive he was. (the breeds known for their protectivness!)

in short...the puppystore is a BUISNESS...while some of the workers care..the buisness itself doesnt...

A Distributor:
the likes of HUNTE corp

- these places are the middle men.
they buy puppies from mills and ship them all over the country to puppy stores.

- the facilities are kept SPOTLESS...they have to be, distributors are under much stricter laws than the breeding facilities or petstores due to the very high turnover rate.
puppies are kept in "batches" as they call them, (they are actually kept with their littermates in breed specific groupings for "ease of ordering") in tiled runs. no toys, no blankets, everything is STERILE,
the facilities smell like BLEACH constantly, so much so that if your not used to the smell of chlorine it does make your eyes water.
they look lovely...but the puppies tend to huddle together in the corner of the small bright white runs, terrified.
most of them are between 6 and 7 weeks of age, the "optimal age" this is ILLEGAL, puppies are not to be sold untill 8 weeks, however "what the usda doesnt know" as it was put to me by one very fancy suited man. "if we buy them at 8 weeks there usually 10 weeks before they get to the petstores...people dont want 10week old puppies they want them tiny and new!"
(not lying direct quote! and the same attitude form the 3 ive taken multiple visist to)

- they have their own vet...a vet whos paid big bucks to make sure all their puppies are "healthy" this doesnt mean the dogs actually are, it just means the papers their shipped out with SAY they are.
(youd be amazed at how many puppies arrive at the store sick! and how many puppystore owners send back because they LOOK sick on arrival)

while at these distributors the puppies recive no hands on unless its to take them to the vets table.
these corporations are also in it for the profit. they make a tiny amount off each compared to the petstore (often buying entire litters for around $25-$50 a puppy and selling for double to tripple) BUT they have such a fast and massive turn around that they make a huge amount of money

The Puppymill:
now crush, i know you like to tell yourself that the images posted of mills are actually 3rd world countries because it makes YOU feel better, but i assure you...300 visits down and there all the same...ive never been to a puppy mill outside of the USA, but PA is actually one of the HUGE puppymill states.

ill give a description of my first ever visit...its a doozy.

we pull up the little country road in PA amish country...absolutly adorable, feilds of crops, then a huge barn, then the main house...this was it... behind the house there was another very large barn and a 8ft tall fence, we couldnt see beyond the fence at that point.
so far everything looked so picturesque, beutiful house, stunning amish barn, little amish children chasing chickens round the yard and a stunning buggy being polished up...
then the father and some come out and greet us and walk us towards the fence. the first thing i noticed as we got closer was the smell...now im no stranger to feces but this wasnt manure...this was dog poop. and the sound of the occasional bark and yip was heard through the fence...
"wow its quiet" one of the workers with me mentions"
"yeah we debark em all so they cant cause a fuss!" his son replied.
my heart sank before we even opend the gate...i dont belive in debarking when its doen by a vet in strictly sanitized conditions and they "did it themselves"
gate opend with ease...and this lovely little picturesque amish world turned suddenly into this heart wretching grey scale horror
infront of me were wire rabbit cages...not runs, not even dog crates, WIRE RABBIT CAGES, stacked 3 high, they had wire floors and no catch pans. in one corner of each run was a peice of plywood "thats cause the wire hurts their feet" the kid tells me when he noticed me looking"
the dogs on the bottom of the stack looked horrendous, the urine and poop form the cages above them was dropping down through. they were matted and smelt like a sewage plant.
cages barely big enough for a pair of bunnies held 6 or 7 dogs.
all of them were terrified and showed it in different ways...some would cower, others would shift as far back in the cage as possible, while others would lundge ferociously at the wire shaking it and snarling...
*more*
 

FoxyWench

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these dogs hadnt seen love in their lives...hech they hadnt seen a bath in their lives.
under the cages were piles of feaces, some 24" high..."we collect it and use it on the feilds" im told...(dog feces is not a safe fertilizer form VETTED dogs...its even worse from dogs whove never seena vet in their lives)
some cages filled with dogs who hadnt seen food in weeks, "some of them get attacked by the others in the cage so they cant eat...but they can still make puppies!"
dog fighting was a plenty, you cant expect much else when theres 1 bowl for 7 dogs and the cage wouldnt even be big enough for 1.
we continue our "tour" emaciated, matted, obviously sick...it didnt end.
then into the barn...it smelt worse in here than outside did..."this is where we keep our nursing gals" he tells me...the barn is pitch black, no windos no light he turns a switch and the lights come one
i remember one of the people with me said something about the amish not using electricity...his responce was easy to remember though "well we dont usually but for folks that come a tour and the usda people we need it...so we only turn it on when folks come into the barn!"
these girls and their puppies were living in the dark for the first 4 weeks of the puppies lives!
more of those rabbit cages with bits of wood and old carpet to keep the puppies form getting stuck in the wire floor...
what i saw in there was more than heart breaking...
females underweight, matter, some blind, missing eyes, missing limbs, couldnt stand up ect...
but even worse, dead puppies pushed aside or half eaten , puppies stuch in the wire flooring or knocked aside due to some reason only the mother would know.
there was even one cage where the mother was DEAD and the puppies were trying to nurse and snuggle up to her COLD corps...
which lead us to the next stop on our tour..."what happens to the dead ones" one of the people with me asks...
the father opens the cage graps the rigored corps of the mother leaving the puppies (mabe 2-3 days old) squirming and crying...and off we go to our next stop. out the back of the barn was a pit...a pit filled with a stentch i could only describe as one of the most horrendous things ive ever smelt. he pulls back the boards that sit on top and into the pit goes the corps...rotting corpses, bones and ash "we light it once a month..." he tells us.

"and what happens to the dogs you dont want anymore" is the final question of the day...
well if they no good for puppies they get shot or we break there necks and use the meat to feed some of the other animals...
but if they still good for making puppies they go off to auction...
im not quite sure how i managed to do a full 300 mill visists when i look back at that first one...and people wonder why i have so many issues.

-mill auctions:
these are "fun" a big barn in the middle of nowhere were all manner of livestock are sold but primarily, dogs and puppies. "this ones missing his leg and is blind, but hes got both testicles and is still a good baby machine..."
this girl lost all 6 of her puppies last try but shes back in heat and ready to go again
These little guys will make some ood puppies when their 6 months old!

id LOVE to tell you your right, puppymills are wonderfull magical places filled with love and happy dogs, Id LOVE to tell you that yes those pictures MUST be from 3rd world countries because people in civilized countries COULDNT do those kind of things to animals...
but id be LYING...of 300 visits all were the same and all were in this fine country we call the USA filled with normal humans, with normal to good to even high inteligence...this is not a 3rd world country filled with poverty and crime where its "ok" because they dont know any better
this is AMERICA...
and its not just the amish who run these mills this way...regular people...HORRIBLE conditions...
...

now i have to go to the dentist...and ill be back...
and if this thread is still open id be happy to describe the difference between a BYB and a REPUTATBLE breeder and why AKC/CKC means NOTHIGN when it comes to the health of your dog.

just because your dogs parents were ckc reg does NOT mean they were genetically healthy!

done for now
 

smkie

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HEre is a puppy mill profit story.

I worked at an animal warehouse. WE shipped to the pet stores across the United States. WE will call it the trail of horrors. I worked there because i thought i was making a difference for the hurt ones, the sick ones, and now i know i was only enabling. THis is what made me quit and never look back.
50 puppies came in. Stacked crates of a different breed in each box. Between 6 and 8 weeks old. THe second day i smelled parvo and started to see the tell tale stool. I told my boss. A vet came in and 50 puppies were pts. No trying to save their lives, just a shot and tossed like so much garbage. WE were instructed to bleach the containers because another shipment was coming in THE NEXT DAY. The outside of these cubes were rough fiberglass. THere was no way to properly disinfect the whole area. i quit. I could not be a part of this any longer. It was bad enough for the birds, rodents, and reptiles. I will tell you truth that for every bird that makes it several die along the way. WHich is why as much as i adore birds i will not have one, i will not put something in a cage, i will not be a part of anything that is connected with this trade. THis is the middle stop for those puppies you see in pet stores. IT's all hell. Don't be a part of it, don't promote it, don't encourage it. Dont' do business with pet stores that do. It is the only way it will stop.
 
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ig·no·rance

noun

Definition:

1. lack of knowledge: lack of knowledge or education


2. unawareness: unawareness of something, often of something important
I don't think we are dealing with ignorance here. I think we are dealing with someone who has been brainwashed.

I mean come on guys... He's obviously loving this. No matter what we say, he's not going to change his ways.

No matter who I have met, mainstream dog owner or reputable breeder, or rescue worker, I have NEVER met anyone that supports puppy mills and truly loves dogs.

The fact that the dog is with its flea infested, matted, open wound, sleeping in it's own feces littermates does not make it okay just because the littermates are there.

I have less against BYBers than I do puppy mills. Yeah they're still breeding dogs and making money, but most BYBers I have dealt with, truly do love their dogs.

You, sir, are not ignorant. You know EXACTLY what you are saying. You know EXACTLY how to ruffle the feathers on a dog forum.

When I watched your youtube video last night, I thanked GOD that you don't own any of my dogs.

Funny thing, is that most of us on this board have more than one dog. Our dogs ARE with their pack.

I will ask the question that you have YET to answer:

WHERE IS YOUR DOG'S PACK?
 

smkie

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I wish this thread was not about trolling or one person in particular IT is about something i care very deeply about and do not find any humor in it at all.

I Do not care who it is we are not suppose to name call or personal insult. SO please stop. Please take the topic seriously and ignore troll like behavior. THat's with a big please. THis topic is too serious to do anything but.
 
C

Crush

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Poor Kassie, if only she knew she was in a horrible condition.... Run away Kassie, the door is open, run!!


QUOTE]

I really like Kassie and think she's cute. I like all your dogs.

My beef was that her dogs did not have enough room to stand up and were needlessly crated stacked ontop of one another.

I personally would never do such a thing If I was breeding dogs. Never.

But that's just me though. They're YOUR dogs and it's legal so I'm not going to protest the gov't to not have those dogs in crates.

I personally feel that dog breeders should not be allowed to crate or cage dogs with no exceptions. If you cant let them run in their pack, then you aren't breeding.

And please save the argument about how it's their natural cave. It isn't. We all know this. The cave is something they are FREE to go in and out of. LOCKING them in a cage isn't.

See I'm actually the humain one here. However, I do crate but don't like doing it and he's just a puppy..
 
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I really like Kassie and think she's cute. I like all your dogs.

My beef was that her dogs did not have enough room to stand up and were needlessly crated stacked ontop of one another.

I personally would never do such a thing If I was breeding dogs. Never.

But that's just me though. They're YOUR dogs and it's legal so I'm not going to protest the gov't to not have those dogs in crates.

I personally feel that dog breeders should not be allowed to crate or cage dogs with no exceptions. If you cant let them run in their pack, then you aren't breeding.
First she is not a breeder. Second she was visting her breeders with her pack of 5 dogs, so to get all dogs used to each other, they cratd them to ensure no fights would break out. You dont just through 2 pack of dogs togeter and hope for the best.

breeders use crates or many reasons.
fights.
no accdental breedings.
feeding.
sleeping

ct. if breede has a handful of dogs, how will she stop them from
mating? Stealing each others foods? Fighting oer a place to sleep? ect.
 
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I really like Kassie and think she's cute. I like all your dogs.

My beef was that her dogs did not have enough room to stand up and were needlessly crated stacked ontop of one another.

I personally would never do such a thing If I was breeding dogs. Never.

But that's just me though. They're YOUR dogs and it's legal so I'm not going to protest the gov't to not have those dogs in crates.

I personally feel that dog breeders should not be allowed to crate or cage dogs with no exceptions. If you cant let them run in their pack, then you aren't breeding.

And please save the argument about how it's their natural cave. It isn't. We all know this. The cave is something they are FREE to go in and out of. LOCKING them in a cage isn't.

See I'm actually the humain one here. However, I do crate but don't like doing it and he's just a puppy..
Hold on to your seats people.

Crsuh I want to actually say I LIKE that you are crating your dog. It really is for their safety. If your argument that dogs belong in a natural environment is true, then if we are going to stick them in a house full of electrical wires and things that can harm them, the least they can do is be safe while we are not home.

Please understand me when I say there is nothing wrong with a crate stacked on top of another one. Why would you say there is? The crates do not become smaller. And those dogs are 4 pound dogs, they certainly can stand up and turn around.

And my dogs all sleep in their crates at night. WITH THE DOORS OPEN. They do like feeling safe and secure on all sides.

I only lock one of my dogs in a crate when I leave and that is because she will have accidents. She goes in without a problem, and doesn't even whine when I come home. I actually have to wake her up to let her out.

If you are saying that dogs don't belong in homes, and they belong with their packs, yet you have ONE dog... in your home... Than I am sorry to say but YOU are the one being the hypocrite.

Why do you think that we all don't care about our dogs?

We aren't using our dogs at status symbols.

I want to ask you an honest question. WHY did you pick the dog you did? Did you seek out that specific mix? And why? How often does your dog get to socialize with other dogs?

In your own words, the hypocrisy is unbelievable.
 

Dogs6

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Foxy :hail:

Your posts touched a place inside me and though I have never had the misfortune to be inside a puppy mill. I could sense the pain from your posts. Hopefully anyone reading this thread will read that and understand this is why we must never support these people.
 

jess2416

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Foxy :hail:

Your posts touched a place inside me and though I have never had the misfortune to be inside a puppy mill. I could sense the pain from your posts. Hopefully anyone reading this thread will read that and understand this is why we must never support these people.
Ditto ^^
:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail: Foxy
 
C

Crush

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Do you know that stacking crates doesn't make the crates...smaller?

the humane one.
Ha ha.

So you do crate your puppy yet its horrible for others to do so?
Take a look closer at the pic.

It just sits wrong with me and I'm very apposed to that treatment of the dogs. And this is whith me being a MAINSTREAM dog owner.

I know a lot of others here agree too, but they aren't saying anything due to forum bullying.

When people are afraid to speak due to bullying, there's less views, less page counts, less revenue, and the forum begins to fail. I'm certainly not censoring and bullying anyone.

What I am saying, is that I'm very apposed to the dogs being put into small crates like that when you have so much room to let them be free.

Anyone reading over this clearly sees the hypocracy.
 
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I know the picture your talking about, don't worry!
It's a hard crate, it's not going to be squished because a light crate is on it with a little dog inside. (It's not like your stuffing a big dog in that little crate)It's not going to make the bottom crate smaller...it just won't.

I just don't get how you still think it's wrong. I just...wow.
 

ACooper

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Take a look closer at the pic.

It just sits wrong with me and I'm very apposed to that treatment of the dogs. And this is whith me being a MAINSTREAM dog owner.

I know a lot of others here agree too, but they aren't saying anything due to forum bullying.

When people are afraid to speak due to bullying, there's less views, less page counts, less revenue, and the forum begins to fail. I'm certainly not censoring and bullying anyone.

What I am saying, is that I'm very apposed to the dogs being put into small crates like that when you have so much room to let them be free.

Anyone reading over this clearly sees the hypocracy.
I am very confused by this post Crush. You claim that puppy mills are not bad, but you are opposed to those dogs in crates..........crates that they don't spend much time in :confused:

Do you realize that true puppy mill dogs are kept in cages that small and SMALLER still? Many times not just ONE per cage but many.......and the cages have wire bottoms to hurt sensitive pads. They are left there for the duration of their LIVES in most cases..........

No, you know what? I am not even going to waste my fingers writing more.
 
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Take a look closer at the pic.

It just sits wrong with me and I'm very apposed to that treatment of the dogs. And this is whith me being a MAINSTREAM dog owner.

I know a lot of others here agree too, but they aren't saying anything due to forum bullying.

When people are afraid to speak due to bullying, there's less views, less page counts, less revenue, and the forum begins to fail. I'm certainly not censoring and bullying anyone.

What I am saying, is that I'm very apposed to the dogs being put into small crates like that when you have so much room to let them be free.

Anyone reading over this clearly sees the hypocracy.
Stop labeling yourself as the mainstream dog owner. You're not!

Mainstream dog owners are people that get their puppy out of the paper, and never join a forum, and live their life feeding their puppy IAMS or science diet because the vet says so. And their puppy lives a pretty good life, and thats that.

You, are a troll, trying to stir up trouble.

if you really represented the mainstream dog owner, there'd be a lot more of you on this forum. Most mainstream dog owners are ignorant, You are ust brainwashed.

Putting a small dog in a small crate for TWENTY minutes? You really think something is wrong with that?! YOU look at the picture again. I happen to know those dogs do not LIVE their entire lives in those crates.

At puppy mills, there are 6-7 puppies in ONE crate. With wire floor. But its okay because at least they're together?! Seriously dude, what are you ON?!
 
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What I am saying, is that I'm very apposed to the dogs being put into small crates like that when you have so much room to let them be free.

Anyone reading over this clearly sees the hypocracy.
The dgsare clearly laying down in he cages. SO they have plenty ofroom to lay, sit and turn round. I cant belev yo are aginst small cages ina home etting, whre he dos are only there for minimal amount o ime.

yet think a dog sitting in a cage with other dogs, feaces, pee, vomit, an other gross stuff for their WHOLE lives, never leavin those cages have a better life. That is a lie o a puppmill dog. yet you think puppy mills are ok, but cating a few dogs to ensure no fights happen is bad?.
 

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