Who says you can't protest a puppy store.
- Thread starter Lolas Dad
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Troll or just extremely ignorant. Plus he's following me from my other forum, lol!
I've been through this all before, actually several times.
This is what I've gathered from his posts:
- pit bulls kill babies
- herding breeds shouldn't be house pets
- no one should have saint bernards because he can't handle the drool
- his puppy is perfect with no training
- shock collars or debarking are how to get a dog to stop barking
- feed iams because it has 'chemicals' in it to make poops smell less
- declaw all your cats
- pet stores are fine
- shelter dogs are all horrible and have lots of issues
- something about pure dogs being white or some nonsense like that
- mainstream and enthusiast are his favorite words but he can't spell either
Ermmmm I'm missing some I know.
ETA: Nothing you guys say is going to change anything, it'll just get him going more.
I've been through this all before, actually several times.
This is what I've gathered from his posts:
- pit bulls kill babies
- herding breeds shouldn't be house pets
- no one should have saint bernards because he can't handle the drool
- his puppy is perfect with no training
- shock collars or debarking are how to get a dog to stop barking
- feed iams because it has 'chemicals' in it to make poops smell less
- declaw all your cats
- pet stores are fine
- shelter dogs are all horrible and have lots of issues
- something about pure dogs being white or some nonsense like that
- mainstream and enthusiast are his favorite words but he can't spell either
Ermmmm I'm missing some I know.
ETA: Nothing you guys say is going to change anything, it'll just get him going more.
Emma was from a pet store. She is not a mill dog, but a small byb. And you know what Crush? She's DEAD because she is from a byb. Yes DEAD. Why? She had Addisons for the last year of her life. Thousands of $ to diagnose, and $80 every 20 days in meds. Then a disk in her neck collapsed. She had a genetic disk disorder. Had she been from a good breeder her parents never would have been bred. Yes she wouldnt exist, but I wouldnt be heart broken at loosing my heart dog before she was 5 years old. I dont think only a few ppl should breed only those who health test.
C
It wasn't because it was from a backyard breeder.
I'm sorry you believe that a AKC registered breeder will breed healthy dogs. That is certainly not the truth. If a breed is prone to getting an ilness, he might get it, he might not.
For any of the potential dog owners reading: there is never a garuntee of health for any dog, from any breeder and it's not responsible to say that the only reason your dog passed was because it was the BYB's fault.
I guess I can find a million people that got their dogs from BYB's that lived long lives and then find AKC registered breeders where the dogs died early of health complications.
I'm sorry you believe that a AKC registered breeder will breed healthy dogs. That is certainly not the truth. If a breed is prone to getting an ilness, he might get it, he might not.
For any of the potential dog owners reading: there is never a garuntee of health for any dog, from any breeder and it's not responsible to say that the only reason your dog passed was because it was the BYB's fault.
I guess I can find a million people that got their dogs from BYB's that lived long lives and then find AKC registered breeders where the dogs died early of health complications.
Are you really that stupid?! The breeder knows her dam has Addisions, and her sire has had spinal issues.
A good breeder wouldnt have bred these two dogs. DUH! No one ever said AKC or CKC or any reg for that matter was a garentee of quality. You need to use your brain (dificult I know) and ask the breeder questions. No the parents being clear of genetic problems isnt a garentee, but its a better chance than the crap shoot of not knowing.
Its good you know people who have BYB dogs that lived a long life, I know MANY that havent.
Dont tell me what my dogs problems were or were not caused from when you know nothing of the situation!
A good breeder wouldnt have bred these two dogs. DUH! No one ever said AKC or CKC or any reg for that matter was a garentee of quality. You need to use your brain (dificult I know) and ask the breeder questions. No the parents being clear of genetic problems isnt a garentee, but its a better chance than the crap shoot of not knowing.
Its good you know people who have BYB dogs that lived a long life, I know MANY that havent.
Dont tell me what my dogs problems were or were not caused from when you know nothing of the situation!
There is a difference in the "dog world" between a backyard breeder and a puppy mill. Puppy mills, pretty much by definition, keep mass numbers of dogs in cages with no regard for their well being. Backyard breeders oftentimes have fine conditions but their breeding dogs are lacking.
I'm not sure if you're writing ACK on purpose but it's the AKC (American Kennel Club).
Health lines from the AKC/CKC, could you please explain that? Unfortunately just being a breeder has AKC or CKC registered dogs does not mean they are health tested. We are in full agreement that wherever the dog is born has no bearing on his genetics- they come from the parents. Conditions aren't half as important to me as dam and sire and what they're made of. However... what do you know about the parents of your dog? Health testing, any sort of titles, anything?
I think you're assuming too much here.
There are many, many people on this board that are NOT fans of the AKC at all. Some people feel it could do more (like mandatory health testing), some feel that it is simply a registry. Certainly, no one thinks it is the be-all, end-all.
We're fans of healthy dogs, well looked after dogs (no, they don't have to be pampered, just decently cared for) and where a dog is purebred, that it is a good representative of it's breed.
Health testing is the best way we have to ensure that the progeny of animals ends up as free of genetics problems as possible. Health testing, as well as a guarantee from the breeder, are both expected from members here. Is it because we are fanatical members of some dog cult? No. It's because we don't like to see animals with preventable genetic disorders, but also, just as importantly we don't like to see the "mainstream dog owner" pay $300+ for a puppy, only to have it develop a genetic problem in 2 years, and then the poor dog owner is faced with having to kill their 2 year old dog or spend thousands trying (oftentimes in vain) to save it.
We don't make this **** up, lol. Really, it does happen, frequently, and it is a bad deal for everyone involved... except the breeder/mill, why would they care? Basically we want breeders to be accountable for the dogs they produce.
Puppymill dogs sold in pet stores are a bad deal because the dog and the new owner oftentimes end up suffering for it.
Real life example. Someone I know got a GSD from a local pet store. Gave the petstore 2 grand for it (!!!). GSD was a fine dog for them until it was 8 MONTHS OLD and developed such severe hip dysplasia that they ending up having it put down.
My GSD, is sired by a dog that was producing until he was about 10 or 11, I believe? And that dog was sired by a dog that was an active police k9 until 11. My dog is 2 years old and has never needed the vet for anything but mandatory shots for boarding.
That is just one, limited example. Everything has been done to ensure this dog I have won't get hip dysplasia. If my dog were to get HD, I would be compensated for it, and supported by the breeder.
Listen, if you've come here with an open mind it should be clear to you by now that you can just sit back, ask questions and learn. If you're going to be condescending and give out false information, I really wonder why you're here. No offense, but it's not like you've got a vast repertoire of dog knowledge to contribute.
I'm not sure if you're writing ACK on purpose but it's the AKC (American Kennel Club).
Health lines from the AKC/CKC, could you please explain that? Unfortunately just being a breeder has AKC or CKC registered dogs does not mean they are health tested. We are in full agreement that wherever the dog is born has no bearing on his genetics- they come from the parents. Conditions aren't half as important to me as dam and sire and what they're made of. However... what do you know about the parents of your dog? Health testing, any sort of titles, anything?
I think you're assuming too much here.
There are many, many people on this board that are NOT fans of the AKC at all. Some people feel it could do more (like mandatory health testing), some feel that it is simply a registry. Certainly, no one thinks it is the be-all, end-all.
We're fans of healthy dogs, well looked after dogs (no, they don't have to be pampered, just decently cared for) and where a dog is purebred, that it is a good representative of it's breed.
Health testing is the best way we have to ensure that the progeny of animals ends up as free of genetics problems as possible. Health testing, as well as a guarantee from the breeder, are both expected from members here. Is it because we are fanatical members of some dog cult? No. It's because we don't like to see animals with preventable genetic disorders, but also, just as importantly we don't like to see the "mainstream dog owner" pay $300+ for a puppy, only to have it develop a genetic problem in 2 years, and then the poor dog owner is faced with having to kill their 2 year old dog or spend thousands trying (oftentimes in vain) to save it.
We don't make this **** up, lol. Really, it does happen, frequently, and it is a bad deal for everyone involved... except the breeder/mill, why would they care? Basically we want breeders to be accountable for the dogs they produce.
Puppymill dogs sold in pet stores are a bad deal because the dog and the new owner oftentimes end up suffering for it.
Real life example. Someone I know got a GSD from a local pet store. Gave the petstore 2 grand for it (!!!). GSD was a fine dog for them until it was 8 MONTHS OLD and developed such severe hip dysplasia that they ending up having it put down.
My GSD, is sired by a dog that was producing until he was about 10 or 11, I believe? And that dog was sired by a dog that was an active police k9 until 11. My dog is 2 years old and has never needed the vet for anything but mandatory shots for boarding.
That is just one, limited example. Everything has been done to ensure this dog I have won't get hip dysplasia. If my dog were to get HD, I would be compensated for it, and supported by the breeder.
Listen, if you've come here with an open mind it should be clear to you by now that you can just sit back, ask questions and learn. If you're going to be condescending and give out false information, I really wonder why you're here. No offense, but it's not like you've got a vast repertoire of dog knowledge to contribute.
C
And no, I personally do not find puppy mills to be cruel. The dogs like each others company, lots of space to move, and are most likely more happy there than in the...
get ready for it..
humain society.
I mean look at the hypocrisy. You have the Humaine Society all against puppy mills. Then, they themselves lock the dogs in seclusion in the WORST CONDITIONS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY WHOLE LIFE.
The conditions were so bad at the Toronto shelter, that I fealt like calling the employment standards people. No HUMAN should be working on thos conditions.
We had to take off our jackets and put them up to our face. It was that bad.
*THOSE* are terrible conditions.
This is not:
get ready for it..
humain society.
I mean look at the hypocrisy. You have the Humaine Society all against puppy mills. Then, they themselves lock the dogs in seclusion in the WORST CONDITIONS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY WHOLE LIFE.
The conditions were so bad at the Toronto shelter, that I fealt like calling the employment standards people. No HUMAN should be working on thos conditions.
We had to take off our jackets and put them up to our face. It was that bad.
*THOSE* are terrible conditions.
This is not:
WOW you have never been to a puppy mill have you?
They don't have more space. AND they live there FOREVER.
A few points you may want to note:
Shelter dogs get walked by volunteers. Puppy mill dogs don't get walked.
Shelter dogs have hope of getting adopted. Puppy mill dogs don't.
Shelter dogs get vet care. Puppy mill dogs don't.
Shelter dogs are there because there are trying to clean up someone elses mess. Pupply mills are the ones creating the mess...
What you show a pic of does NOT look like a mill. (a byb maybe)
This is a canadian story...
They don't have more space. AND they live there FOREVER.
A few points you may want to note:
Shelter dogs get walked by volunteers. Puppy mill dogs don't get walked.
Shelter dogs have hope of getting adopted. Puppy mill dogs don't.
Shelter dogs get vet care. Puppy mill dogs don't.
Shelter dogs are there because there are trying to clean up someone elses mess. Pupply mills are the ones creating the mess...
What you show a pic of does NOT look like a mill. (a byb maybe)
This is a canadian story...
The AKC has no correlation with healthy dogs. We are not saying that.
YOU ARE. lol
GENETIC DISORDERS. Think about it. They have to be passed down. If the parents can be tested free of those problems, and their parents before them, and so on, the likelihood of the puppy getting those problems goes way down or is eliminated. It is hard to pass something down that is genetic when you don't have the genetics for it.
YOU ARE. lol
GENETIC DISORDERS. Think about it. They have to be passed down. If the parents can be tested free of those problems, and their parents before them, and so on, the likelihood of the puppy getting those problems goes way down or is eliminated. It is hard to pass something down that is genetic when you don't have the genetics for it.
Hi let me help educate you. Genetics IS my forte. (by education)
BYB dont' do health testing. They don't do titles, don't have ANY criteria for creating healthy sturdy dogs.
Now a good breeder (akc, ckc, or not) will do health tests. They will test dogs for diseases. Now here is the cool part. If a DNA test says both parents are clear there is 0% chance the puppies will get it. How cool is that!
IF its hip testing and CERF testing, its not as certain, but its a LOT more certain than breeding what ever is handy.
You really are full of some strange ideas. I suggest you work with some rescues (seeing where you are I can recommend some) You will see which group of dogs has more issues, ends up in rescue more often etc etc.
The dogs you diss in the shelter are from the same type of breeder you bought from. If shelter dogs all have issues, well then your dog will too as they are from the same kinds of genetic stock.
Oh and a health guarantee pays you back the cost of the puppy if something shows up. It makes breeders put their money where their mouth is. GOOD breeders don't have high incidences of unhealthy puppies.
AND this might shock you. Puppy milled dogs OFTEN come with AKC or CKC papers... all that means is that they bred two registered dogs of the same breed together. It means nothing towards health or temperament. Those come from other tests, and having titles.
BYB dont' do health testing. They don't do titles, don't have ANY criteria for creating healthy sturdy dogs.
Now a good breeder (akc, ckc, or not) will do health tests. They will test dogs for diseases. Now here is the cool part. If a DNA test says both parents are clear there is 0% chance the puppies will get it. How cool is that!
IF its hip testing and CERF testing, its not as certain, but its a LOT more certain than breeding what ever is handy.
You really are full of some strange ideas. I suggest you work with some rescues (seeing where you are I can recommend some) You will see which group of dogs has more issues, ends up in rescue more often etc etc.
The dogs you diss in the shelter are from the same type of breeder you bought from. If shelter dogs all have issues, well then your dog will too as they are from the same kinds of genetic stock.
Oh and a health guarantee pays you back the cost of the puppy if something shows up. It makes breeders put their money where their mouth is. GOOD breeders don't have high incidences of unhealthy puppies.
AND this might shock you. Puppy milled dogs OFTEN come with AKC or CKC papers... all that means is that they bred two registered dogs of the same breed together. It means nothing towards health or temperament. Those come from other tests, and having titles.
And no, I personally do not find puppy mills to be cruel. The dogs like each others company, lots of space to move, and are most likely more happy there than in the...
get ready for it..
humain society.
I mean look at the hypocrisy. You have the Humaine Society all against puppy mills. Then, they themselves lock the dogs in seclusion in the WORST CONDITIONS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY WHOLE LIFE.
The conditions were so bad at the Toronto shelter, that I fealt like calling the employment standards people. No HUMAN should be working on thos conditions.
We had to take off our jackets and put them up to our face. It was that bad.
*THOSE* are terrible conditions.
This is not:
get ready for it..
humain society.
I mean look at the hypocrisy. You have the Humaine Society all against puppy mills. Then, they themselves lock the dogs in seclusion in the WORST CONDITIONS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY WHOLE LIFE.
The conditions were so bad at the Toronto shelter, that I fealt like calling the employment standards people. No HUMAN should be working on thos conditions.
We had to take off our jackets and put them up to our face. It was that bad.
*THOSE* are terrible conditions.
This is not:
These are MILLS.
And yes I DO think those dogs would be happier in a shelter.
oh let me post some more articles from regular newspapers (not crazy dog groups)
Montreal Gazette:
and a vid.. just in case you still think they are better off than shelter dogs (shelter dogs not only get handling, vet care.. they get FOOD)
Videos Posted by Humane Society International: Cruelty in Canada: Puppy Mill Bust | Facebook
Montreal Gazette:
and a vid.. just in case you still think they are better off than shelter dogs (shelter dogs not only get handling, vet care.. they get FOOD)
Videos Posted by Humane Society International: Cruelty in Canada: Puppy Mill Bust | Facebook
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What's funny is that he speaks of shelter dogs like we all WANT them to be there. Like we're hypocrites (his word, not mine) for taking dogs away from their byb homes and shoving them into shelters. It's ridicules. No one wants those dogs to be cooped up in a shelter or rescue, but where do you expect them to go? They're homeless...it's either the shelters or the streets.
Then agian, I guess the streets would be a better option because the dogs could run free and possibly have the companionship of other strays
Seriously though, it's pointless to argue. If anything, any legitimate points made will only be used to somehow magically illustrate how 'elitist' you are. No real knowledge is being retained by the intended target.
Then agian, I guess the streets would be a better option because the dogs could run free and possibly have the companionship of other strays
Seriously though, it's pointless to argue. If anything, any legitimate points made will only be used to somehow magically illustrate how 'elitist' you are. No real knowledge is being retained by the intended target.
Oh, I know I shouldn't respond but I really don't have anything else better to do right now.
^^That is not a puppymill. That is a publicity shot of Samoyed puppies ready for sale, so of course they're going to look cute and fluffy.
THIS is a puppymill:
And this is what poodles in puppymills end up looking like.
So by spreading your inane, misinformed and utterly ignorant viewpoint, you are condoning the above conditions for the lifetimes of numerous dogs. You seem to be lacking in basic compassion and I am thankful that most "mainstream" dog owners are smarter than you.
You want to know why some shelters are in such bad conditions? Because they are taking more dogs than their facilities were ever designed to do, because of BYB's and puppymills. So you only have yourself and others of your ilk to blame. If your sort wasn't condoning and promoting the continuation of the above conditions, shelters wouldn't need to exist in the numbers they do. So pat yourself on the back for contributing to that.
I sincerely hope your dog doesn't end up with the skin issues that are so prevalent in white dogs, nor the crippling joint disorders common in Std. poodles. However, that's more than likely going to be the case, especially in light of pumping him full of chemicals from Iams.
I fully support those who protest puppymills and petstores. Shame on those people who think that it's ok to make a buck based on the suffering of animals!
Go do some reading about the reality of puppymills and the true cost of BYB dogs.
^^That is not a puppymill. That is a publicity shot of Samoyed puppies ready for sale, so of course they're going to look cute and fluffy.
THIS is a puppymill:
And this is what poodles in puppymills end up looking like.
So by spreading your inane, misinformed and utterly ignorant viewpoint, you are condoning the above conditions for the lifetimes of numerous dogs. You seem to be lacking in basic compassion and I am thankful that most "mainstream" dog owners are smarter than you.
You want to know why some shelters are in such bad conditions? Because they are taking more dogs than their facilities were ever designed to do, because of BYB's and puppymills. So you only have yourself and others of your ilk to blame. If your sort wasn't condoning and promoting the continuation of the above conditions, shelters wouldn't need to exist in the numbers they do. So pat yourself on the back for contributing to that.
I sincerely hope your dog doesn't end up with the skin issues that are so prevalent in white dogs, nor the crippling joint disorders common in Std. poodles. However, that's more than likely going to be the case, especially in light of pumping him full of chemicals from Iams.
I fully support those who protest puppymills and petstores. Shame on those people who think that it's ok to make a buck based on the suffering of animals!
Go do some reading about the reality of puppymills and the true cost of BYB dogs.