What's so bad about breeding 'designer' dogs?

[Squishy22]

I didnt read throught the entire thread, because, well... I'm being lazy.

I absolutely do NOT believe in breeding "designer dogs" what so ever. Its just as wrong as breeding a random mutt in my opinion. Whats the point!!! Lets take those darn "labradoodles" for example. Please tell me the difference from a labradoodle and a poodle? It seems like people are bored with older breeds so they try to created more exciting newer breeds to attract buyers. Its BULL.

Look at how many designer dogs are in pounds these days. We already have enough dogs in shelters, so adding more breeds to the list of already existing HUNDREDS of breeds is just foolish. WHY?

 

[Squishy22]

I would take a pure bred poodle or lab over a labradoodle ANYDAY. 9 times out of 10 they probably have sounder temperaments than doodles anyway, why? because labradoodles come from BYBs. Not to mention they are over priced for their breeders greed.

 

[Paige]

Someone created the Border Collie and by God am I ever happy they did. We wouldn't have our breeds if someone hadn't started to breed for their specific traits. If they go about it the right way I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[LauraLeigh]

IMO there was a NEED for companion breeds when most Toys were developed. The timeframe many like the Peke, the Pug, the Pap, the Bichon were developed in was a time of dogs WORKING and HUNTING. The dogs of those days were most definitely not companions and tho kept indoors at the master's feet (sometimes....just as often in kennels or outside) they were not there to be endlessly stroked and coddled.

Those days if you can imagine it....there were NO companion breeds.

There was a niche...

Can we say the same today? That all dogs today are working and there is a gaping yawning dearth of purely companion dogs for those of a gentler nature?

Very good point..... And just to be clear, I was not saying their was a need, I don't believe there to be a need, but just did not agree that every breed was bred for a job so to speak, because some were bred for the "Job" of being a pet... I do agree that today there should be a breed to meet your needs, without starting a new breed.

 

[adojrts]

Have to agree, with all the shelters full and over flowing, I don't understand the 'need' for designer dogs with cutsey names. For me it really doesn't have anything to do with the debate of working vs show or purebred vs mixed.

Maybe what rescues and shelters should do is start making up cutsey names to the dogs that come in, then those dogs many have a better chance of finding a forever home.

I don't understand when there are so many dogs out there that do or can fill that gap without making new ones.
In my opinion the timing isn't right, we need to take care of the over population of both purebreds and mixes.........and then MAYBE in the future sometime and as long as the genetic testing etc is done.

 

[Dekka]

See and I don't get the 'shelters are all full' argument. That to me is a totally different issue. We could say there are enough JRTs, Hounds, labs, etc etc in shelters so no one should breed any. The issue is that BAD breeders who pump out dogs (of any kind, even show breeders) with out regard to homes.

I am all for creating breeds provided its done ethically, with for thought, a plan and sound purpose.

 

[Squishy22]

Someone created the Border Collie and by God am I ever happy they did. We wouldn't have our breeds if someone hadn't started to breed for their specific traits. If they go about it the right way I see nothing wrong with it.

Yeah, but ya know... when you create a breed that is almost EXACTLY like an already existing breed. What is the point of it? Pure bred poodle VS goldendoodle. Looks and temperament. Both are low shedding, both are friendly, both are family dogs, both look alike, etc, etc, etc.

But what matters the most is all of the dogs in shelters. Dogs that are going to be put to death. We have too many dogs as it is. When we solve the overpopulation problem, THEN it would be a different story. But right now... we cant even handle the breeds we already have. Why add to the list?

 

[corgipower]

See and I don't get the 'shelters are all full' argument. That to me is a totally different issue. We could say there are enough JRTs, Hounds, labs, etc etc in shelters so no one should breed any. The issue is that BAD breeders who pump out dogs (of any kind, even show breeders) with out regard to homes.

I am all for creating breeds provided its done ethically, with for thought, a plan and sound purpose.

agreed.

 

[LauraLeigh]

Honestly?? Being totally, completely honest... I am not sure anymore how I feel about the shelters are full argument.... Someday I want another Dobe, and then when we retire I'd love to have a Papillion or Chihuahua..... Then I go to a shelter, or see a program and so on, and think, Wow am I that greedy that I'd rather have "X" breed than save a dog from a rescue/shelter?? I don't know right now to be honest.....

 

[Paige]

Yeah, but ya know... when you create a breed that is almost EXACTLY like an already existing breed. What is the point of it? Pure bred poodle VS goldendoodle. Looks and temperament. Both are low shedding, both are friendly, both are family dogs, both look alike, etc, etc, etc.

But what matters the most is all of the dogs in shelters. Dogs that are going to be put to death. We have too many dogs as it is. When we solve the overpopulation problem, THEN it would be a different story. But right now... we cant even handle the breeds we already have. Why add to the list?

The shelters are full is a totally different issue then creating a new breed. If the people are only in it for the money they'll breed whatever type of dog that will get them money. That's the issue. Not ethical breeding practices.

 

[Romy]

Yeah, but ya know... when you create a breed that is almost EXACTLY like an already existing breed. What is the point of it? Pure bred poodle VS goldendoodle. Looks and temperament. Both are low shedding, both are friendly, both are family dogs, both look alike, etc, etc, etc.

I'm going to have to disagree with this to an extent. I have not met a single "friendly" standard poodle, ever. Not to say they don't exist, but as a whole their tendency is to be aloof with strangers, and to many of the standard poodles I have met that translates to "growling/showing my teeth to strangers when my or my master's space is invaded".

The whole point and reason for making goldendoodles in the first place was for service dog work. Some of the dogs would have more hypoallergenic properties to their coat than traditional pure goldens or labs, and the mix tended to take the snarky edge off the pure poodles that made the majority of poodles unsuitable for service work. On that line of thought, I do think there could be a good niche for a breed that has a more golden style temperament with a poodlish coat that has been selectively bred to be hypoallergenic. To accomplish this goal however, would require not just one person but a group of very dedicated people who are in agreement as to what their goal is, and strict in health testing, temperament testing, and sticking to the program. You can find this level of responsibility in guide dog breeding programs. They are not wholesaling extra puppies to pet stores or puppy mills, they let pups who don't make the grade out on pet contracts, or if it has some outstanding characteristics that it could add back into the breeding program it may be kept by the folks who foster/house the program's breeding animals.

Overall, I'm not 100% opposed to mutts. American staghounds are mutts in that they are constantly evolving and don't have any registry to speak of. New blood from various sighthound breeds is added here and there to refine their working ability. My problem with people who breed designer mutts is that 99.9% of them don't health test or work their dogs, aren't starting with animals that have decent temperaments, and they don't have any goals other than to make $$$.

 

[Sapphire-Light]

If people really want an non shedding hypo allegenic dog, there's the xoloitzcuintle and the peruvian hairless

My problem with people who breed designer mutts is that 99.9% of them don't health test or work their dogs, aren't starting with animals that have decent temperaments, and they don't have any goals other than to make $$$.

Agree, also another reason is that since many designer breeders think hybrids are inmune to any disease they problably think they don't need any health testins because is imposible the dogs are goin to get sick :lol-sign:

 

[GlassOnion]

Agree, also another reason is that since many designer breeders think hybrids are inmune to any disease they problably think they don't need any health testins because is imposible the dogs are goin to get sick

Why on earth would they think that? That would have to be the epitome of ignorance. I know that designer breeders have a bad name but come on, give them some slack. Surely they don't think that their 'Whatzamadoodlepaniel' will be immune to every disease out there.


Oh by the by what's a 'conformation' breeder? Is that one that conforms to a new trend (IE designer dogs) and gets in it for the money? Sounds like a BYB to me.

 

[huskyloves]

Even the "designer" dogs are already showing some serious issues, they're seeing a high number of puggles with liver shunts, "doodles" with temperament issues and seizure disorders, and don't get me started on the Klee Kai, what started out as a program with good intentions went to the crapper pretty quickly . Why on earth would you want to breed a dog that's skittish and nervous around people? And that's part of the standard! Fabulous, take the Siberian with the prey drive and running instincts and couple that with a nervebag, that's a dog that's gonna grow up to be a bit of a freak.

 

[Sapphire-Light]

Why on earth would they think that? That would have to be the epitome of ignorance. I know that designer breeders have a bad name but come on, give them some slack. Surely they don't think that their 'Whatzamadoodlepaniel' will be immune to every disease out there.


Oh by the by what's a 'conformation' breeder? Is that one that conforms to a new trend (IE designer dogs) and gets in it for the money? Sounds like a BYB to me.

I said the inmune think because I read it in a mag,the article is spanish and the info is a bit weird.

I'm not so shure on what the autor knows about designers dogs but it say that when the mix for example a GSD with a poodle the hip displachia disappears

It also says that this breeders are improbing the dogs health with this mixes And that "you get the best (in a mix) of both without adding any problems"

So the article dosen't literaly says they are inmune, but that any congenial disease is not goin to appear, so I don't think they are all the designer breeders that think like this; but it appears the are some .


Also In a Dog world mag I think is the one with the french bulldog in the cover, in an article about the hip displachia they ask a vet "what about hybrid vigor" wish the vet replies that hybrid dogs aren't more healtier than pure breeds.
So some people belive designer dogs are healtier than some purebreds.



And about the conformation breeding thing, you are right it should be show breeder, but keep in mind english is not my first language so I make mistakes sometimes.
But thanks for the correction

 

[GlassOnion]

And about the conformation breeding thing, you are right it should be show breeder, but keep in mind english is not my first language so I make mistakes sometimes.
But thanks for the correction

Erm no I wasn't making a correction lol. I really don't know what ya'll mean by a 'conformation breeder'.

 

[mrose_s]

on health, I think I read that the youngest dog ever to get a total hip replacement was a spoodle only a few months old. Makes you wonder

 

[Psyfalcon]

Klee Kai standard says aloof, not skittish, there is a difference, but in these small dogs, it seems that line is being crossed far too often.

All AKC breeds have a purpose? No, not now at least. The field spaniel was created mainly for showing, they were never good working dogs, same with the Sussex. The American Cocker is a mess, at least how it compares to its "purpose."

The way things are going, to pet/show only homes really degrades the original purpose, so I don't really care who breeds what cute pet type (or show if you get it accepted as a new breed). They better have homes lined up as well, or better than breeders of purebreds, and their claims should be restricted to whats provable, not a marking invention (ie hypoallergenic/shed free goldendoodles with a complete golden coat).

That said, I'd never buy a dog bred for cuteness... Its always amazed me how people can fall for a cute dog that hard...

To me, the American Staghound and Alaskan Husky are the height of domesticated dog. They are bred to do their job, and thats it. Temperament and physical qualities follow what is required of the dog to live and work with humans, and at least in the Husky, other dogs in the team. While there is room for improvement, these breeders often keep a larger percentage of a litter, which reduces the incidence of them in shelters. After them, its the dogs that were never touched by the show ring, Chessies and Water Spaniels.

I can get what I want from shelters (dingo-ish mixes, or labradors/lab mixes) or from a purebred, like the Chessie. Would I rescue a Labradoodle, sure, if it did what I want in a dog. Besides temperament, I judge even shelter dogs by their physical ability to hike, or rollerjour, or fetching sessions, so a Labradoodle does not start with any significant lead for cuteness. To dog still has to live, and keep up with me, while not driving me crazy.

 

[shadowfacedanes]

Agree, also another reason is that since many designer breeders think hybrids are inmune to any disease they problably think they don't need any health testins because is imposible the dogs are goin to get sick :lol-sign:

Why on earth would they think that? That would have to be the epitome of ignorance. I know that designer breeders have a bad name but come on, give them some slack. Surely they don't think that their 'Whatzamadoodlepaniel' will be immune to every disease out there.

Sounds crazy doesn't it, but Sapphire Light is right.
No Slack-Giving necessary....to the majority of them anyway.

I have seen it on so many boards, websites, and puppy sale advertisements; people who are proud of being a designer dog breeder, going on and on about how much healthier their mutts are than purebreds because of "hybrid vigor".

It's not a rare occurance.

(That's another sign someone doesn't need to be breeding.)
Anyone who breeds a litter of ANYTHING should realize things can go wrong and do whatever ithey can to prevent it.

 

[Laurelin]

Erm no I wasn't making a correction lol. I really don't know what ya'll mean by a 'conformation breeder'.

Conformation breeder is someone who shows in conformation.

Conformation shows are the 'typical' dog shows everyone thinks of when they hear the word dog shows. Crufts, Westminster, Eukanuba, etc... are examples of the biggest conformation shows and are the ones televised.