OK.
The bad guys who know the stuff we need to learn to prosecute this very unconventional conflict are, as I am sure you know, dedicated fanatics. I really cannot think of a 'civilized' way to extract what we need to learn from such people, other than to get brutal.
All I know is this.... IT WORKS. Never forget that these animals are trying to kill innocent people.
But I understand the reasons why we should not do it. It's really an impossible situation. This enemy knows they can't fight us on even terms. They also know how the west views such things and uses it to their advantage.
If you have a better idea how to fight this war, I honestly would like to hear it. Because the way things are now, we are going to be fighting this war forever. Think about that.
Oddly, there is extensive evidence that shows that whether or not it works, other methods also work. A lot of these guys are surprisingly willing to talk, if only because they don't have much else better to do. There has been
a lot of research on this area, and no matter what a lot of people want to say, there's little proof that torture in any way produces enough quality information to make it worth the cost (moral, reputational, etc), let alone that it the only option.
And I repeat, its wrong. Its a violation of everything we believe in. As for this war . . . what war? I see three wars in the Middle East that we could, if we wanted to, leave at any time. One of them we should never have fought in the first place. As for terrorism here . . .there ain't much, and as far as anyone has been able to show, not ONE terrorist attack here has been prevented by information gained from torture. Cheney has hinted about such things, but Cheney is bluntly NOT a reliable source of information. Yeah, they may have declared "war" on us, but so what?
And as Hounds pointed out, if the war is against "terror" it will never end. Ever. There will always be people willing to do horrible things for political and religious reasons. If we want our country back, our liberties back, we just have to accept that. And this torture thing is PART of what they did to our freedoms since 9/11 . . . just because they haven't done it to any white, non-Muslim US citizens yet . . . the right not to be tortured, the right to a trial, the right to habeus corpus . . . those are OUR rights. And when we cheapen them, when we take them away from just
those people, its the first step to taking them away from me and you.
Yes, I am horribly upset about the innocent people who have been caught up in this system. I can think of few greater injustices, and I am ashamed that my country was involved in them and refuses to make restitution. But it should not happen to the guilty either. Not because I have any sympathy for many of those turds disguised as human beings, but because if no one speaks for them, the precedent is set. It will be easier the next time, for the next group for which no one has sympathy. I've already heard people talk about treating the Mexican drug gangs as terrorists, using all our "special" powers on them. And if them, why not ordinary drug dealers? You see where this is leading.
I also ask what is the point of winning a war when we give up the very thing we claim to be fighting for. Yes, we are still better than them. But we are not who we were.
