Iditarod 2008 Death & Injury Statistics

lakotasong · Mar 29, 2008

When looking at the race statistics page, you are provided with the number of dogs that each musher finished or scratched with. Thus, the number of total dogs dropped involves *gasp* math. If anyone would like to second check the math, be my guest - I'd love it as I want it to be accurate. I had one other person check it, but could use any other set of eyes that is willing to sit and compute. I printed out the statistics and did it by hand, and it can get a bit blurry LOL!

I'm glad this thread got through to at least one person (member) through all the "wool-pulling" that goes on in this forum.

FrenchKissed · Mar 29, 2008

summitview said:

Human races have just as many injured, and in the cases of multi terrain and or survival races, they have deaths. The dogs that compete in those races love what they do just as the people who race (who can also die and do). The dog that do that work are not meant to just be pets. They a born and bred to race, without the race they would probably not exist. But then that is the way the mind of an ARist works...better not to exist at all.

PWCorgi · Mar 29, 2008

I have an honest question.

What is so wrong with having a dog "dropped?" I read a book about a race, not the Iditarod but can't remember the name, and when a dog was "dropped" it meant they were left at a checkpoint and sent home. I don't really see anything wrong with this, isn't it better than saying that a musher has to continue with a dog that may be getting worn out?

jess2416 · Mar 29, 2008

There was NO need to roll your d@mn eyes at me, I didnt know whats what I need to look for...

So people STOPPED because of the health of their dogs... WELLL good for them, at least they didnt continue...

But as you can see thats not how you made it seem with your quote... as always..

PWCorgi · Mar 29, 2008

Jess, from what I understand, when a dog gets dropped they get to pick up a new dog. Before the race starts they have a set number of backup dogs waiting in case one (or more) are dropped.

ETA: Just wanted to add that I think this is a good thing, then they have no need to try and continue with an injured dog or a dog that just isn't running well.

lizzybeth727 · Mar 29, 2008

summitview said:

One thing that always bothers me about the Iditarod is the prizes. Whichever musher reaches point A or point B first gets some ridiculous amount of money or some other human oriented prize. Why couldn't these prizes be a year's worth of annual exams for the dogs at a local veterinary clinic? Or a year's worth of heartworm/flea/tick preventative? Or some super amazing food for the dogs? The races are so focused on the mushers, and not the dogs, that it is truly saddening. Mushers push their dogs to gain for themselves.

Stupid question, but - do they have fleas/ticks/heartworm in Alaska??

Laurelin · Mar 29, 2008

I'd just like all the facts. I know there is abuse and I know there are deaths but I really just don't know the entire story. I'd also need to know the cruelty laws of the area and then how often they're actually enforced. I have a problem with abuse but then again I don't have a problem with people keeping their dogs in ways that i personally would never keep my dog. Even if you personally don't agree but the dogs are well cared for, then what can you really argue?

If it's a question of enforcing cruelty laws on sled dogs, I'd see no problem. Dogs should be maintained well, but it's naive of me to assume that all dogs will live inside on the sofa eating premium food all the time. My main concerns are if a dog has shelter, food, water, and vet care.

Most sports have prizes for the people only. I mean.. do you think conformation dogs really care if they win or not? Good show dogs LOVE being in the ring. There's certainly people that are abusive and wrong, but they are the minority. An abused dog doesn't show well. Regardless of feelings the handler/breeder has or doesn't have for that dog a dog competing has to be kept conditioned well and has to be happy in order to perform well. A lot of show dogs kept by handlers are kept in crates a lot of the time or kept in runs. This could be made to look horrible and certainly there are some handlers/breeders who are, but it's not everyone. It's not most. I've seen the way AR people portray showing (something I'm more familiar with) and it's not an accurate picture of the norm.

Punish the abusers, imo.

jess2416 · Mar 29, 2008

Whatever... I really dont know.. I was just taking it as I was reading it..

Oh and last I checked.. SCRATCHED MEANT STOPPED!!!!!!!

But whatever, I dont get her anyway, she really needs to get over herself, if she wants to help anything...

adojrts · Mar 29, 2008

It is my understanding that many of the dogs that are *dropped* isn't always because of injury/health etc but for solid reasons like a dog or pair of dogs are needed for certain terrian and once that is done the dogs are sent home. Because the more dogs a musher has on the line, the more supplies they have to carry, so it makes sense that if those dogs have done their part and the load can be made easier on the other dogs, to send them home...........

IliamnasQuest · Mar 29, 2008

Living in Alaska all my life, and being a vet tech for a veterinarian who not only did pre-race health checks but also was an Iditarod vet at one point, I've had a bit of an inside look beyond what most people probably get.

Is there abuse within the sport? Certainly, but the IDITAROD race is not at fault. There is abuse in pretty much any sport out there. Should individuals be held to account for their personal abuse of dogs and the system? Yes, of course - but I find it completely unfair and hypocritical to blame an entire race for the problems perpetrated by a few.

The health regulations and testing for these long distance sled dogs is far above what most animals EVER have to go through in their lives. Before they're allowed to enter a race like the Iditarod the dogs have to go through extensive tests. This means bloodwork, physical exams, proof of vaccinations and worming, heart monitoring, etc. Dogs that do not pass these exams are not allowed to compete. Serious Iditarod competitors are serious about the health and welfare of their dogs - and these dogs are not the lazy, lay around the house couch potatoes that most of us have. These dogs are toned, physically superior athletes who have one primary desire (beyond breathing, eating, etc.) and that's to PULL and RUN. They are happiest when in harness and on a trail. And building these dogs up for competition means regular exercise, much more exercise than probably any of our dogs get. They may spend time on a relatively short chain with access to a doghouse with straw bedding, but when you look at the grand scheme of things these dogs actually get more exercise and stimulation than the typical pet dog does. They wouldn't be happy living inside a house because it would be too warm for them.

And let's talk math. There were 96 teams starting, and mushers generally start with 12-16 dogs. Let's choose an average of 14 (I'm not going through each individual musher to see how many they actually started with). At 14 dogs, that means about 1344 dogs started the race. I can find information on three that died. That means .2% of the dogs in the race died. One of those died because of an accident where a snowmachine hit a team (not a fault in the dog and not the fault of the musher). Of the other two dogs, one has been determined to have died from aspiration pneumonia and the other is still to be determined (at least as far as I know). So if we figure that those two dogs died directly from health conditions due to racing, that still puts the number of deaths at .15% of the total number of dogs that started. And aspiration pneumonia can happen in any sled dog (often happens from dogs grabbing up mouthfuls of snow while running - I've had my dogs choke on snow just playing in the back yard). The percentage of these athletes who actually die during the Iditarod is very low. And teams that are scratched are not necessarily scratched because of serious health problems. Scratching could be because the team just got tired and didn't want to run anymore, or the health of the handler could be a problem.

Yes, I find it sad that any dog dies. But in every aspect of dog ownership, there are dogs that die. It doesn't necessarily mean that the dog was abused, nor does it mean that dog ownership should end.

There is no solid logic in making the entire Iditarod race seem bad when many of those mushers treat their dogs with love and care and concern. They WANT them to be healthy and happy, and they feed them well, provide vet care far beyond the typical pet owner, provide exercise far beyond the typical pet owner, and know their dogs inside and out. Blaming the entire Iditarod race because some mushers who participate in the race may treat their dogs in a poor manner makes as much sense as blaming everyone who participates in an obedience-style sport because some who participate in these sports use some very harsh training techniques, or blaming all pet owners because some allow their dogs to become overweight, ill-mannered or don't provide proper veterinary care.

Blaming the "whole" because of the actions of a small part will never make sense, and those who do show a level of narrowmindedness that is quite concerning. This is the type of action that leads to breed specific legislation and other anti-dog laws. And we should ALL be concerned about that.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

skittledoo · Mar 29, 2008

IliamnasQuest said:

Living in Alaska all my life, and being a vet tech for a veterinarian who not only did pre-race health checks but also was an Iditarod vet at one point, I've had a bit of an inside look beyond what most people probably get.

Is there abuse within the sport? Certainly, but the IDITAROD race is not at fault. There is abuse in pretty much any sport out there. Should individuals be held to account for their personal abuse of dogs and the system? Yes, of course - but I find it completely unfair and hypocritical to blame an entire race for the problems perpetrated by a few.

The health regulations and testing for these long distance sled dogs is far above what most animals EVER have to go through in their lives. Before they're allowed to enter a race like the Iditarod the dogs have to go through extensive tests. This means bloodwork, physical exams, proof of vaccinations and worming, heart monitoring, etc. Dogs that do not pass these exams are not allowed to compete. Serious Iditarod competitors are serious about the health and welfare of their dogs - and these dogs are not the lazy, lay around the house couch potatoes that most of us have. These dogs are toned, physically superior athletes who have one primary desire (beyond breathing, eating, etc.) and that's to PULL and RUN. They are happiest when in harness and on a trail. And building these dogs up for competition means regular exercise, much more exercise than probably any of our dogs get. They may spend time on a relatively short chain with access to a doghouse with straw bedding, but when you look at the grand scheme of things these dogs actually get more exercise and stimulation than the typical pet dog does. They wouldn't be happy living inside a house because it would be too warm for them.

And let's talk math. There were 96 teams starting, and mushers generally start with 12-16 dogs. Let's choose an average of 14 (I'm not going through each individual musher to see how many they actually started with). At 14 dogs, that means about 1344 dogs started the race. I can find information on three that died. That means .2% of the dogs in the race died. One of those died because of an accident where a snowmachine hit a team (not a fault in the dog and not the fault of the musher). Of the other two dogs, one has been determined to have died from aspiration pneumonia and the other is still to be determined (at least as far as I know). So if we figure that those two dogs died directly from health conditions due to racing, that still puts the number of deaths at .15% of the total number of dogs that started. And aspiration pneumonia can happen in any sled dog (often happens from dogs grabbing up mouthfuls of snow while running - I've had my dogs choke on snow just playing in the back yard). The percentage of these athletes who actually die during the Iditarod is very low. And teams that are scratched are not necessarily scratched because of serious health problems. Scratching could be because the team just got tired and didn't want to run anymore, or the health of the handler could be a problem.

Yes, I find it sad that any dog dies. But in every aspect of dog ownership, there are dogs that die. It doesn't necessarily mean that the dog was abused, nor does it mean that dog ownership should end.

There is no solid logic in making the entire Iditarod race seem bad when many of those mushers treat their dogs with love and care and concern. They WANT them to be healthy and happy, and they feed them well, provide vet care far beyond the typical pet owner, provide exercise far beyond the typical pet owner, and know their dogs inside and out. Blaming the entire Iditarod race because some mushers who participate in the race may treat their dogs in a poor manner makes as much sense as blaming everyone who participates in an obedience-style sport because some who participate in these sports use some very harsh training techniques, or blaming all pet owners because some allow their dogs to become overweight, ill-mannered or don't provide proper veterinary care.

Blaming the "whole" because of the actions of a small part will never make sense, and those who do show a level of narrowmindedness that is quite concerning. This is the type of action that leads to breed specific legislation and other anti-dog laws. And we should ALL be concerned about that.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

:hail::hail::hail: AMEN!

jess2416 · Mar 29, 2008

skittledoo said:

DITTO^^^

sparks19 · Mar 29, 2008

Yeah well... just look at who posted this thread lol how seriously do you think it should be taken

DryCreek · Mar 30, 2008

I just read this story today....

Lead dog's ashes spread where he often ran best
KENNEL DEATH: Governor's last great race ends at Bishop Rock, where Gebhardt says goodbye.

By KEVIN KLOTT
[email protected]

Published: March 11th, 2008 01:25 AM
Last Modified: March 11th, 2008 01:04 AM

UNALAKLEET -- Feeling melancholy from pouring the ashes of his dead lead dog on the Yukon River, Paul Gebhardt dug deep for happiness late Saturday when he watched green northern lights dance in the sky.

Traveling in and out of the fog banks between Nulato and Kaltag, the lights illuminated the sky so brightly that even Gebhardt's dogs took notice. Running with their ears pinned back from a slight headwind, all but one dog looked to the heavens and watched the aurora borealis show.

"I'd never seen them do that," Gebhardt said. "It was something out of a Disney movie.

"I was just laughing," he said. "It would have been a beautiful picture."

Hours before, Gebhardt had been mourning Governor, a 4-year-old that died suddenly four months ago at the musher's Kasilof kennel. Gebhardt took out a bag with ashes of his prized lead dog and spread them along the Iditarod Trail.

Governor was just reaching his prime when he died Nov. 2. He had led Gebhardt to a second-place finish in last year's Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race. But Governor, a rock eater all his life, swallowed a quarter-sized rock and it killed him.

Instead of burying him near the kennel, Gebhardt decided to spread Governor's ashes at Bishop Rock -- the halfway point between Ruby and Kaltag where Governor often ran best.

"He was always good on the river," Gebhardt said. "So it made sense."

With 13 dogs traveling by the glow of Gebhardt's headlamp, he cut a hole in the bottom of the bag and let Governor's ashes spill out as the team ran.

"Mitch (Seavey) was right behind me, so his team was running right through Governor," Gebhardt said. "That's probably why he's ahead of me now. He's got Governor dust."

continued on link

noludoru · Mar 30, 2008

J's crew said:

Please search all of her past threads (or just search for the words "tether," chain," and "summitview" - you'll find it!). I wont go so far as to say all of them, but MOST are filled with the SAME bullsh!t over and effing over again. It's like watching a hamster racing around on a wheel, you know how it's going to happen because it's the same every time - people step in and ask logical questions and tell her not only her reasoning but her methods are flawed.. and they are... and she doesn't answer questions or PMs and says we've threatened to ban her and that her lawyer says she can't talk about it.

Usually I find it amusing, but I'm very grumpy tonight. Maybe this crap over and over again will be more fun to hear in the morning. Not.

If she actually has something to contribute then she should contribute it, but this isn't contribution - it's a pattern of borderline trolling. Frankly I think she's toed the line way too long, since before I even joined, and we have some pretty dang tolerant mods to put up with her crap.

Renee750il said:

I'd like to hear the end of that sentence.

lakotasong · Mar 30, 2008

PWCorgi said:

Dropping a dog is usually in the best interest of the dog. Mushers need as many dogs as possible to pull the weight of the sled and all the equipment, so dropping a dog is a not a light decision to make. If often happens when a dog is simply too injured or sick and is only slowing down the team. The phrase that mushers use is "you're only as fast as your slowest dog."

lakotasong · Mar 30, 2008

PWCorgi said:

That isn't the case. You only have as many dogs as you start with. You cannot replace a dropped dog with a new dog.

lakotasong · Mar 30, 2008

lizzybeth727 said:

First of all, a large percentage of people who compete in the Iditarod are not from Alaska. So the prize of "year's worth of flea/tick/HWT preventative" would still be a great idea.

As for the prevalence of these three things in Alaska, I found the following information through a few minutes of simple google searching:

Alaska is a very low-incidence state so far as heartworm goes. (AVMA article 1) (AVMA article 2)

Though Alaska.com says there are no fleas or ticks in Alaska, the Biological Survey of Canada mentions fleas in Alaska - perhaps a different type of flea? I found an article about ticks that live on hares in the summer months, but they do not transfer to humans or dogs (though can be deadly if the meat of the infected hare is eaten). So apparently, yes, that prize wouldn't do much good for someone living in Alaska. I still think it would be a great idea for a prize, you'd just have to make sure someone from the lower 48 got it (maybe make that a requirement - "first non-Alaskan to reach this point").

lakotasong · Mar 30, 2008

IliamnasQuest said:

This excuse always cracks me up. It simply isn't the case. Dogs can adapt, and with regular grooming and plenty of hydration, even the most hardcore outdoor dog can do just fine in the house. All of my sled dogs made the transition to being in the house and LOVE it. And yes, I have "real" sled dogs, two are even from an Iditarod kennel.

IliamnasQuest said:

What about the other two hundred dogs sitting back at the lot? The ones who didn't make the "A" team? These dogs never see a veterinarian, won't ever have bloodwork done unless they make it to the Iditarod start line, and in all honesty not every dog even has a name nor a relationship with a single human being. The 16 dogs at the Iditarod start line may look like they are that musher's prized team, but they get circulated back into the forgotten hundreds when the glory of Iditarod month is over.

PWCorgi · Mar 30, 2008

Oh. It was different in the book I read, though it was about a different race than the Iditarod.

Iditarod 2008 Death & Injury Statistics

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