I think I'm going to find a new home for Boris... or put him down
- Thread starter Fran27
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Red, the only few times my husband tried to use 'force' on him, even just pulling the leash when he did something wrong... it made things worse.
Poodlemommy, the reason he doesn't have toys anymore is because Tips destroyed them all and it was just too dangerous... all the ones he couldn't destroy Boris showed no interest in. I know it's made things more difficult....
Mrose, we do pretty much what the site says... we wait for him to look at us when we give him a treat, he has to wait for our ok for his food etc...
The behaviorist said she had seen much worse, but we can't seem to get rid of the problem...
Ugh I just feel so awful for having let things go so far.
Poodlemommy, the reason he doesn't have toys anymore is because Tips destroyed them all and it was just too dangerous... all the ones he couldn't destroy Boris showed no interest in. I know it's made things more difficult....
Mrose, we do pretty much what the site says... we wait for him to look at us when we give him a treat, he has to wait for our ok for his food etc...
The behaviorist said she had seen much worse, but we can't seem to get rid of the problem...
Ugh I just feel so awful for having let things go so far.
He ate way more than one... I have yet to find any safe toy he doesn't destroy right away. It really sucks, and I know it's part of the reason Boris steals our stuff (although only papers/shoes and clothes).
Dizzy, they still get lots of attention during the day... it really hasn't change one way or another since we got the babies.
Dizzy, they still get lots of attention during the day... it really hasn't change one way or another since we got the babies.
My thoughts are that Boris has you two quite well-trained to give into his whims and it's going to take more than what either of you are willing or able to put forth in order to change it. I know that as far as I go, there's no way on Earth I would allow MY dog to hold me hostage just because he was on the stairs with a stolen item. But that's me.
Much as I really honestly hate to admit it, Boris is a liability. You've got two babies to think about. Boris is not safe to have around them, especially when they start being mobile. I'd love to see him find a good, dog- and training-savvy home, but those are few and far inbetween. I kind of have to agree with the idea that PTS is probably the most ethical option. You might be able to find a good Golden rescue who understands beyond the shadow of a doubt what they're dealing with and what type of home they have to look for. Might.
Much as I really honestly hate to admit it, Boris is a liability. You've got two babies to think about. Boris is not safe to have around them, especially when they start being mobile. I'd love to see him find a good, dog- and training-savvy home, but those are few and far inbetween. I kind of have to agree with the idea that PTS is probably the most ethical option. You might be able to find a good Golden rescue who understands beyond the shadow of a doubt what they're dealing with and what type of home they have to look for. Might.
I agree with a lot of what Redyre said, but I do think that setting the dog up to grab and item and then have to drop it, is too dangerous for most people and most dogs. And I think that a dog in that state of mind ("MUST GUARD!!!!!!!") are not really going to learn a whole lot because they're not really going to be thinking a whole lot.
I worked with a rottie who was bad about resource guarding just a few weeks ago, and I followed the training plan set up in Jean Donaldson's "Mine!" It worked beautifully. The idea is that you're teaching a dog using systematic desensitization that people are always going to give him good stuff when he's got something he likes. It uses positive reinforcement, so the dog stays happy throughout the process. The idea is to start with some object that the dog doesn't care a whole lot about (we used a soup ladle), and teach the dog with that object that we can approach and even take it away, and he'll get all kinds of good stuff (after we take it, so that it's not a bribe).
Here's an intro to the book:
http://www.charleszukow.com/download/sfspca/jean_donaldson_book.pdf
Like I said, the method works beautifully, but unfortunately it takes a lot of time and patience. So I"m not sure if the OP would be able to do this, and I really do believe it would be best for her to get rid of the dog. But I just want to mention this to let everyone know that you don't have to do "dominance training" or any other force methods to work with resource guarding.
I worked with a rottie who was bad about resource guarding just a few weeks ago, and I followed the training plan set up in Jean Donaldson's "Mine!" It worked beautifully. The idea is that you're teaching a dog using systematic desensitization that people are always going to give him good stuff when he's got something he likes. It uses positive reinforcement, so the dog stays happy throughout the process. The idea is to start with some object that the dog doesn't care a whole lot about (we used a soup ladle), and teach the dog with that object that we can approach and even take it away, and he'll get all kinds of good stuff (after we take it, so that it's not a bribe).
Here's an intro to the book:
http://www.charleszukow.com/download/sfspca/jean_donaldson_book.pdf
Like I said, the method works beautifully, but unfortunately it takes a lot of time and patience. So I"m not sure if the OP would be able to do this, and I really do believe it would be best for her to get rid of the dog. But I just want to mention this to let everyone know that you don't have to do "dominance training" or any other force methods to work with resource guarding.
it happens all the time...a couple has dogs as companions, then babies enter the picture. now..sometimes that works beautifully, sometimes it just doesn't. no bashing intended here....but an aggressive dog should never be around your babies. I don't care what anyone says. YOU know best, not someone just giving training advice. but..please...Fran...find him a home. do NOT put him down for this. OMG...there truly is a home out there for him. ((hugs)) maybe I'm too soft, but giving him a chance elsewhere ...while telling them all his issues...has to be the better option. putting him to sleep??? why??? because he just needs a different home? my best thoughts are with you.
^^^^Thank you, Red. Exactly what I was going to say.
And I hope Fran is ready to be potentially liable if he does seriously injure someone/something. And, since, you know, there are just LOADS of experienced, competent homes out there just waiting for a dog like Boris, I'm sure she wont have any trouble at all finding him one.
And I hope Fran is ready to be potentially liable if he does seriously injure someone/something. And, since, you know, there are just LOADS of experienced, competent homes out there just waiting for a dog like Boris, I'm sure she wont have any trouble at all finding him one.
Honestly... from what I've read from the threads I gather the training was not really enforced the best. It almost sounds like you set in with the attitude that it wasn't going to work before you started, which if that's the case, it won't ever work...
I agree, you need to think of the kids first.
Only you know exactly what has been tried as far as training goes. We can all speculate but we're not there.
Honestly, I would have a major problem rehoming a dog I was afraid of biting me. To me, there is only two options here- work through his problems yourself or put him down.
I'd also have a major problem having to put down a dog I did not try everything with. Only you know if you've tried everything.
Some food for thought.
I agree, you need to think of the kids first.
Only you know exactly what has been tried as far as training goes. We can all speculate but we're not there.
Honestly, I would have a major problem rehoming a dog I was afraid of biting me. To me, there is only two options here- work through his problems yourself or put him down.
I'd also have a major problem having to put down a dog I did not try everything with. Only you know if you've tried everything.
Some food for thought.
R
Debi, are you really serious?
That you would take this dominant aggressive resource guarding dog into YOUR home and try to rehab him through these issues?
My reply was not really meant to be snotty, but to be a wakeup call. How many people are actually going to take on a dog with these serious and possibly dangerous behavioral issues?
I always ask this question when people state that dogs like this should not be euth'd but rehomed.
WHO is going to take this dog?
That you would take this dominant aggressive resource guarding dog into YOUR home and try to rehab him through these issues?
My reply was not really meant to be snotty, but to be a wakeup call. How many people are actually going to take on a dog with these serious and possibly dangerous behavioral issues?
I always ask this question when people state that dogs like this should not be euth'd but rehomed.
WHO is going to take this dog?
somebody with patience..and no children. come on...KILL this dog? he isn't working in Fran's home, but that doesn't mean somebody else can't work with him. you bet I'm serious. my husky mix has had the same issues, and I've been able to work past them. I'm not saying it's been a breeze, nor am I saying she'd be perfect for any family out there. I'm saying it's something that you can work thru. I don't happen to think this is such a serious issue......AWAY from those babies.
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Have you tried a basket muzzle on this dog? It would alleviate the fear of being bitten when administering a correction, which might allow you to make some headway. His reactions are being made because he know you won't follow up on anything out of fear. If you take that fear away, and are able to actually administer a correction, you might get somewhere.
Fran, here are two Golden Retriever rescues in PA, just in case you want to ask them for advice.
http://www.graperescue.com
http://www.wagsrescue.homestead.com
This one does northern Ohio and western Pennsylvania:
http://www.grinrescue.org/
I know this is hard for you. If you choose euthanasia, I completely understand. I have a dog that is fear aggressive, which is a worse problem to deal with (IMO) than resource guarding; it is hard, extremely frustrating at times, and takes a lot of work to fix an aggression issue. ((hugs)) to you.
http://www.graperescue.com
http://www.wagsrescue.homestead.com
This one does northern Ohio and western Pennsylvania:
http://www.grinrescue.org/
I know this is hard for you. If you choose euthanasia, I completely understand. I have a dog that is fear aggressive, which is a worse problem to deal with (IMO) than resource guarding; it is hard, extremely frustrating at times, and takes a lot of work to fix an aggression issue. ((hugs)) to you.
