I think I'm going to find a new home for Boris... or put him down

S

Squishy22

Guest
#21
I would do what you feel is necessary. Having an aggressive dog like that in a home with two little babies is very DANGEROUS. Something has to be done before those babies become more mobile...

Even with training and improvement, you could never ever trust him again. He would have to be crated whenever the babies are around, and thats not the happiest life for him...
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

Guest
#23
Yes it's a lot of work :( And we can't crate Boris much, or he will bark/whine/scratch... he tolerates it some if we're around, but that's it.
And so what if the spoiled dog barks and whines a bit? Here it would be tough sh!t if he didn't like it.

Jules there's no point seeing a behaviorist again. We know what needs to be done to fix the issue. I even read a book about it. The idea is to reward the dog for dropping the item, over and over and over again, then getting closer etc etc. I'm sure it could work if we had hours to do it but... it's still based on bribery. Boris knows when it's a training session and knows he will get something out of it. So he's much more likely to do it then than in other circumstances. He was always the best in his class at training classes... not so much in normal circumstances.
Training and desensitizing a dog from resource guarding issues takes time and effort.

Using the food is NOT BRIBING HIM. Using food rewards teaches the dog that he need not WORRY about someone approaching his things. And in my personal experience that translates to others as well as the people in the home.

And again... it doesn't work for everyone, just for the person who trained him. So there will still be the problem of what's going to happen if the dog steals something from the babies' room then stops on the stairs destroying it, and the baby wants to go down and/or try to get the thing back?
I strongly disagree with the above. Good training WORKS, and not only for the people doing the training.

Dogs should not ever be free to have access to a child. Or vice versa. This is what crates, exercise pens, and baby gates can be judiciously used to avoid.

So I told my husband he has two months to work on it (I'll help, obviously)... if in two months it's not better, we'll find him a new home... hopefully honestly a rescue that will know what the problem is and be willing to work on it... but even then, I'm really not sure I will ever trust him around the kids once they start moving around the house and leaving their toys... and at the first sign of growling he'll have to go. We just don't have the room to leave a dog separated from us all the time, and it's not a life anyway. Things would be so much better if he stopped stealing, but we can't teach him to play with his toys because since Tips had to have emergency x-rays after eating one, we don't allow toys anymore (he destroys every single one of them). And he was always protective of some of his toys too anyway...

There's really a lot of weird things about him, like, if he's lying down under the desk and we're stepping on him by accident he will growl too. But never in the open (I could step with him 100 times when I get off the bed and he doesn't care)...

I know it's really a messed up situation all around...
In my opinion, rehoming this dog would be irresponsible at this point in time.

If you are unable to work through his issues, IMO he should be destroyed.

I can feel the frustration and the feeling of powerlessness in your posts.

I am certain this comes across to the dog as well. Sometimes you must be MENTALLY POWERFUL in order to lead a multi dog household.

If this were my dog, he would be crated except for supervised enforced exercise.

He would be obedience trained EVERY day.

He would be hand fed only, for several weeks, one morsel at a time.

He would drag a line when he was loose in my house so that I could control the situation.

While he was dragging the line I would set him up OVER and OVER and OVER again to demonstrate this behavior, and each time he did, I would reel him in, and using upward pressure on the leash and collar, I would quietly but firmly cause him to release the object he had. As he dropped the object, I would say OUT, while walking him away from it, and offer him a food treat.

He would be crated while I removed the article in question, and then I would set him up AGAIN.

I would close my ears to his protests at being confined, and I would take CONTROL of the situation AWAY from the dog.

While I was taking this proactive active positively dominant role with the dog, and controlling his every move while lose in my home, I would also control his access to areas where he "steals" things by using baby gates and closing doors to keep him out of areas where he has no business.

His crate door would also stay shut, as he would go in the crate only when I PUT him there, and come out only with my permission, whether the door was shut OR open.

Your dog needs a strong firm leader who will take control of his life and this situation and show him that he is NOT in charge.

Your crying and your feelings of helplessness come across loud and clear to him, you can bet your boots on that.

And again, this dog should NOT be rehomed if you cannot resolve his issues.

JMO as always.
 

PoodleMommy

Yorkie Love
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
6,444
Likes
0
Points
36
#25
Red, why should a dog be killed if someone is willing to take them in and work with them?

I would never agree with rehoming without explaining the full extent of the problems however, it does not sound like this dog is beyond help. It sounds like he needs someone to work with him and give him time... so if someone is willing to do that why shouldnt he have a chance to live?
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

Guest
#26
PM, people can do as they like.

As for me, I could not take the legal risk, nor live with the mental consequences if I placed a dog with known issues, who then subsequently bites or injures someone.

It might help to take into consideration that I speak from a Rottweiler viewpoint. You just don't take chances in that regard with large powerful dogs, but any dog can hurt a child seriously if they decide to.

as stated, it is my OPINION, which I'm entitled to, just as you are entitled to yours.

;) :D
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

Guest
#27
Some other things that can help with dogs who want to be POWERFUL in their homes:

1) MORE EXERCISE. If this were my dog, he would be TIRED at the end of the day. This exercise needs to be done WITH you, preferably on a leash or a line so you can control it. Trotting beside a bike, or a scooter, or playing fetch on a retractible leash are all good options for exercise.

2) MORE MENTAL EXERCISE. Try these FUN games with your dog that put YOU in the leadership position.

play the LOOK GAME. Cut up soft treats (hot dogs, string cheese, left over table meat, etc) into small pieces. Start each time with about 20 pieces. Put your other dog away, and work one at a time. Feed the dog a few pieces of food from each hand. Show him you still have food in each hand, and drop your hands to your side. Stand still. Be quiet, and ignore the dog, but carefully watch him. The SECOND he makes eye contact, PRAISE HIM and feed him ALL the food you have in both hands, (6 to 8 tiny pieces) one piece at a time. Get more food, show him you have it, and play until the food is gone.

No lookie, no cookie.

This teaches the dog that in order to get a reward, he has to pay attention to YOU.

3) play the recall game. You can find that on a search of the training section, I don't think it's a sticky.

4) Take a class!!! Go sign up for a basic obedience class, and go with Boris. Even if he's been before, this will be a good opportunity for you to put yourself in the leadership position in a positive way. You can also interact with others, and you will have a person who has experience training dogs to brainstorm with for other ideas to keep Boris busy, and work on your own leadership skills with him.

I hope you can find new and innovative ways to work with this issue with Boris so that you can end up being successful. It is obvious you love and care for your dogs, and sometimes we just need to go around and look at an issue from the other side to see better how to deal with it.

Good luck, and please let me know if any of these hints are helpful with your situation.
 

Buddy'sParents

*Finding My Inner Fila*
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
25,377
Likes
0
Points
36
#28
Red, why should a dog be killed if someone is willing to take them in and work with them?
I thought this too, initially, as I read through the thread. But, from what Fran says, Boris is unpredictable and I (personally) would only feel comfortable if he were to go a professional that has had vast experience with dogs like Boris. I also realize that the likelihood of this notion is weak. I truly feel that 200% effort needs to be put into rehabilitating Boris, from both Fran and her husband. If that is then unsuccessful then he should be put down. :(
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
4,381
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Midwest
#29
I agree with what Red Rott's said, everything except about the rehoming part.

I think it can be done and probably should be. I don't get a very good feeling that what needs to be done can/will be done by the OP.

She's afraid of the dog, the dog senses that, the whole family seems to be. The dog has "won" these battles so many times it will try to do so even more IMO.

However I think somebody that has dealt with this before could overcome it rather quickly. Resource guarding isn't the same as misplaced aggression, but if not dealt with especially with children in the house it can end up with the same result.

I'd hate to see a dog get put down for something like this, but all you can do is make the best decision you can. Sure others may judge, me included, but that decision only affects you and your life so the make the one that is best for you. Good luck.
 

Fran27

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
10,642
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
46
Location
New Jersey
#31
Thanks Red, it's great advice... I have no doubt that it would be impossible to get him to drop what he is holding without another growling fest though... leash or not.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
1,341
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Texas
#32
Redyre is right, I don't see a point in rehoming a dog like this. Some dogs push on the people they know that they can. This dog has gotten away with resource guarding for a long time. If the dog was placed in rescue he may end up in a foster home that will not allow him to resource guard and the foster will think "Aha, he's fixed". The dog could be placed in a home where the person in charge of him doesn't have enough to stand up to him, and the behavior is back. Even if he was placed in a home with no children, that doesn't ensure safety of anyone or any other animals.

I'm so sorry to the OP having to deal with this. IMO, if the problem can not be resolved, they dog should be put down.
 

milos_mommy

Active Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
15,349
Likes
0
Points
36
#33
I think Red is very right, but no way can a woman with TWO infants do that. It'd be too much for her to handle, nearly impossible.

Someone else, however, would be very capeable of it, and it would WORK. And it wouldn't take a ridiculous amount of time to work, either. I wouldn't want to see a dog who is able to live a normal, happy life and bring a family much joy "destroyed" because of legal risks that can surely be worked around.

Dear oh dear, can't someone on Chaz take him? I know there are a number of people here who could easily, easily "fix" a dog like Boris. Hey Nikki....he already fits in, he's another 'B'.....:( I would be so sad to see him put down.
 

milos_mommy

Active Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
15,349
Likes
0
Points
36
#34
You know what I would do?

Teach him to "hold" an object. Like grab something and carry it around or whatever. Make it a really big deal. That way, if he's got something that isn't his, you could give him a dog toy, say "hold" and then while he's holding that have time to grab a treat to treat him.
 

PoodleMommy

Yorkie Love
Joined
Jan 31, 2006
Messages
6,444
Likes
0
Points
36
#35
You know what I would do?

Teach him to "hold" an object. Like grab something and carry it around or whatever. Make it a really big deal. That way, if he's got something that isn't his, you could give him a dog toy, say "hold" and then while he's holding that have time to grab a treat to treat him.
well i was going to say something along the lines of this earlier... but he is not allowed to have toys... it really sounds like this dog is being set up to fail.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

Guest
#36
Thanks Red, it's great advice... I have no doubt that it would be impossible to get him to drop what he is holding without another growling fest though... leash or not.
Key to working through this for now is NOT SHOWING THE DOG ANY REACTION to his bratty behavior.

Also in my experience if dogs cannot breathe they have a hard time growling. And you bet, if I had a problem this serious, the dog would learn VERY QUICKLY that his "master plan" of having and controlling all the resources in your home was rapidly coming to a screeching halt.

I would set this dog up dragging a line, and I would begin working him with a slip collar. (IMPORTANT!!!! NEVER allow a dog to drag a line, ESPECIALLY ON A SLIP COLLAR, if you are not paying DIRECT attention to him. NOT EVER) Make the line long enough that you don't have to go so close to him to get the end of it. When he takes the article I have set him up to take, I would reel him in quickly. I would not make eye contact. I would raise him up with the line to a point at which he must make an important decision. Hold and growl, or breathe.

I would do this quietly, calmly, and the INSTANT the dog dropped the object, I would release the pressure JUST ENOUGH so he can take a good breath, and I would briskly walk him away and strongly food reward him.

I do not use these methods often, or lightly. However, this dog is looking at DEATH if this situation is not resolved. It is time for some backbone, and some gloves off real life tough love for this guy.
 

Saintgirl

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Messages
941
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
47
#38
Thanks Red, it's great advice... I have no doubt that it would be impossible to get him to drop what he is holding without another growling fest though... leash or not.
Red gave EXCELLENT advice!!!!!!! However, I believe one of the main reasons that behavior modification with Boris is not working is that because you don't believe it can be done in your home. When I work with a dog, I believe 100% that we are going to work on the problem AND change the unwanted behavior. There is no doubt in my mind that I can correct the problem unless there is a medical problem lying at the root of the problem. Confidence makes a strong leader for a dog, and it seems that your home lacks the confidence to correct the issue. I am not trying to bash you, I am worried about how this problem can continue to grow without consistent, confident training and behavior modification. If you do not feel that you can take control of the situation then you are placing your children and yourself in danger.

IMO the only home I would rehome Boris into would be a home with the new owner working in the professional dog world, if they understood all of his issues 100%, and were qualified to work with him. Unfortunatley these homes are few and far between and your only ethical option would be to PTS.
 

Dizzy

Sit! Good dog.
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Messages
17,761
Likes
1
Points
38
Location
Wales
#40
Sounds like he is getting away with murder, because he KNOWS he can...

Without knowing anything about the situation as such, I would ask how firm have been with him in the past? I know that sometimes, some people just don't have the authority to deal with certain dogs attitudes.

I am sure there is someone out there who would take him on, if you can't cope any more.

I wonder if these issues have suddenly reared again because the dogs aren't your main focus anymore (which is obviously inevitable!). Has Boris had the same amount of daily attention/exercise etc etc?

I really hope you can do something for the best of ALL of you.... I'd hate to hear he'd bitten, OR been PTS... :(
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top