i hate people "saving" dogs graphic warning
- Thread starter Pops2
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Dogs can be on leashes. Dogs can also be contained in fences.
Desensetizing a cat to a harness and leash is possible to do, but it's very difficult. Especially for adult cats. And cats can jump over just about any fence without even thinking. Dogs, of course, can jump fences too, but they usually won't do it if their family is outside with them, because they're so social. And if they do get out, they will probably come back.... because they're social. (I know that I'm making very wide generalizations here, but I think these do pertain to at least 60% of dogs, and certainly dogs owned by people on this forum.)
Basically, it's cats' independent nature that makes them much more difficult to contain. They don't really get a lot of social rewards from people, so they are content living out on the street alone. This is not something you can necessarily train out of a cat, and this is why I personally, only let my cat out for short periods of time, supervised, before meals.
Desensetizing a cat to a harness and leash is possible to do, but it's very difficult. Especially for adult cats. And cats can jump over just about any fence without even thinking. Dogs, of course, can jump fences too, but they usually won't do it if their family is outside with them, because they're so social. And if they do get out, they will probably come back.... because they're social. (I know that I'm making very wide generalizations here, but I think these do pertain to at least 60% of dogs, and certainly dogs owned by people on this forum.)
Basically, it's cats' independent nature that makes them much more difficult to contain. They don't really get a lot of social rewards from people, so they are content living out on the street alone. This is not something you can necessarily train out of a cat, and this is why I personally, only let my cat out for short periods of time, supervised, before meals.
Dogs who never have collars and leashed on till they are older have issues too. And yes you can fence off areas for cats. I never said it was easy.
And no cats are not that independent. Every dumped stray or city stray I have dealt with has desperately wanted to come in and live IN a house WITH people once they are no longer afraid of them.
And you DO let your cats out. .. so not sure why you are arguing that they can't go outside ever
And no cats are not that independent. Every dumped stray or city stray I have dealt with has desperately wanted to come in and live IN a house WITH people once they are no longer afraid of them.
And you DO let your cats out. .. so not sure why you are arguing that they can't go outside ever
on the original subject
i'll say this one more time for those who missed it the first two, I was NOT remotely expressing an interest in adopting (i have access to plenty of good hunting stock both here and in the British Isles). the one wench was being snotty because i hunted my dog.
FTR it is possible to condition a racer for hunting. the process is almost as long as raising a pup and the racer will still have a thin skin & be prone to soft tissue injuries.
on the hijack subject
free roaming cats (not just ferals) are the second largest cause of decline in small animals ESPECIALLY small birds. only the combined effects of pollution, "clean" farming & reduced logging have a bigger impact.
i agree w/ the posts that say cats should be controlled just like dogs.
regardless of the excuses, not doing so is ignorant or willfully irresponsible.
i'll say this one more time for those who missed it the first two, I was NOT remotely expressing an interest in adopting (i have access to plenty of good hunting stock both here and in the British Isles). the one wench was being snotty because i hunted my dog.
FTR it is possible to condition a racer for hunting. the process is almost as long as raising a pup and the racer will still have a thin skin & be prone to soft tissue injuries.
on the hijack subject
free roaming cats (not just ferals) are the second largest cause of decline in small animals ESPECIALLY small birds. only the combined effects of pollution, "clean" farming & reduced logging have a bigger impact.
i agree w/ the posts that say cats should be controlled just like dogs.
regardless of the excuses, not doing so is ignorant or willfully irresponsible.
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Agree totally. For the idea that loose cats cause less problems than loose dogs, that's ridiculous cat-owner logic designed to deflect culpability. I think some have a problem seeing beyond their own situation in which their impeccably-trained kitties just sit and look beautiful on their doorstep all day. Where I'm at, most dogs are loose, and they largely run back to their own properties when you yell at them and don't come back. Cats are also loose, and the same cat will come back day after day just because it can. I was out on my front porch with the husband's 45 aimed at this loose B/W cat that has been coming in our yard regularly. Like I wimp, I couldn't shoot. I kicked myself later when the cat was in our yard again, with our dogs freaking out at the windows and coming close to redirecting on each other.
To the OP, I feel your pain. Maybe not the most articulately-worded complaint, but I get it. I, too, get tired of people "saving" dogs that they don't understand. Folks who assume that a greyhound would be happier not "having" to run, or that if you take a Pit Bull and love it, that it will be happier not "having" to fight. My concern is that rescues will only work with a certain type of owner, and not give consideration to any other. And I have also noticed the huge chip that some of those folks carry around on their shoulders. The presumption that if you're not on "their side," you're part of the problem. It's BS, and they certainly aren't winning over people to the rescue side by feeling that if you aren't one of the cool kids, you're unworthy.
To the OP, I feel your pain. Maybe not the most articulately-worded complaint, but I get it. I, too, get tired of people "saving" dogs that they don't understand. Folks who assume that a greyhound would be happier not "having" to run, or that if you take a Pit Bull and love it, that it will be happier not "having" to fight. My concern is that rescues will only work with a certain type of owner, and not give consideration to any other. And I have also noticed the huge chip that some of those folks carry around on their shoulders. The presumption that if you're not on "their side," you're part of the problem. It's BS, and they certainly aren't winning over people to the rescue side by feeling that if you aren't one of the cool kids, you're unworthy.
A) can you show me where you found that stat please?
http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...CB02FCA016.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=244397
B) I am not ignorant OR willfully irresponsible, nor are the other X million cat owners in the UK (I'd say the majority have cat flaps.
Cats have been owned for 1000's of years. They are not the reason for the decline of small animal populations. Destruction of habitat is.
I don't agree with introducing non-native species, however, I'd say cats were pretty much established before our time in our ecosystem. Suberban areas adapt to cat populations.
As for cats causing problems...... well.... I am yet to meet anyone who has been mauled by a cat, or had a dog mauled by a cat wandering. The only dog/cat encounters I know of are where dog chased cat, cat fought back.
Some people keep house cats. One of ours was destined to be a house cat. If you saw this cat when we confine him, I can tell you he is NOT a happy cat.
Cats are NOT dogs, you cannot judge them by dog standards. I'd never let my dog roam, because dogs cause problems - they are totally different animals with different needs and behaviours.
I don't shun people for keeping their cats indoors (which I think must be an OBSCENELY boring life for a cat), and I know my cats are happy, healthy and safe going in and out.
The proportion of time they spend outside is TINY. They sleep indoors and pop out when they want to check their terrirory and do normal cat things.
They have a litter box each which they USE, they don't go fouling anywhere.
They are microchipped, and we keep them indoors over night.
Having access to the outdoors keeps them fit, happy, stimulated and generally allowed to indulge in their natural behaviours.
As for the lead idea.... OMG.... try putting Shan on a lead - even from a kitten - I'd pay to see that.
So you might not be a good enough trainer to train a cat to a leash (as a kitten) that doesn't mean it can't be done.
And while I find it disturbing the people who have said cats just wander off (as most of my cats have had a great relationship with our family back when I was growing up and they did go in and out all the time.. NONE wandered off. In 17 years of my life and many cats.. NONE wandered off and didn't come home!!) I do think in this day and age cats should be kept track of.
When I was young everyone let their dogs roam. It was normal. For thousands of years dogs just roamed and came home at night, even in cities. So its no different for dogs now than it is for cats.
And while I find it disturbing the people who have said cats just wander off (as most of my cats have had a great relationship with our family back when I was growing up and they did go in and out all the time.. NONE wandered off. In 17 years of my life and many cats.. NONE wandered off and didn't come home!!) I do think in this day and age cats should be kept track of.
When I was young everyone let their dogs roam. It was normal. For thousands of years dogs just roamed and came home at night, even in cities. So its no different for dogs now than it is for cats.
I know it can be done. I didn't say I couldn't do it - I've never tried, nor would I want to unless I took a cat camping, which I'd never do.
I'd still pay someone to try and put Shan on a lead though, he is a feisty bengal
Our cats are kept track of - we know where they roam, and can call them in any time with a bell
Some cat people sure have a sense of entitlement. I stumbled upon some board that was on some art website or something a long time ago, and these people were talking about how a dog killed someone's cat and how the dog was therefore evil and they wanted to torture it to death.
I wonder if the cat had been eaten by a fox instead of they would have wanted to torture a fox to death?
I wonder if the cat had been eaten by a fox instead of they would have wanted to torture a fox to death?
standards do not matter LAWS...matter here it is the LAW that you confine your "pet"...and yeah that includes cats too. I call in every cat I see damaging my property INCLUDING opening trash bags which they do OFTEN...and I have trapped and will continue to trap problem cats that mess on my property or endanger MY cats and puppies with disease exposure and parasites.
You have NO idea where your cats "foul", that is a laffer...they can dump or spray/urinate 4 times in your box and once outside someplace and you would not know at all. Give me a break.
You have NO idea where your cats "foul", that is a laffer...they can dump or spray/urinate 4 times in your box and once outside someplace and you would not know at all. Give me a break.
Nope. But they still bite. They still claw people and scratch them. They still ruin other people's property. They still trespass onto other people's property. The still urinate and defecate on other people's property. And they still kill off the wildlife that maybe some people enjoy watching on their own property.
I have yet to see one person justify a cat being allowed to roam loose while dogs cannot. I guess in my case if I go key the people's cars to where the only "fix" is a sandown and complete painting and go pee & poo on their doorstep and kill their birds and leave the carcasses scattered about and sit outside their home at 2 am causing their dogs to go absolutely apeshit, and then slash their b-b-que grill cover to bits, then maybe they will get the point. Oh, & let's not dumping some fleas near their front door so their dogs will get infested.
Sorry folks, but there is NO excuse for allowing your animal to trespass onto someone's property and destroy someone's personal property. I don't care if it's a dog, cat, or goldfish.
As for leash training a cat, I've seen it done numerous times. I cannot count the number of cats that came into the clinic on a harness and leash. And my neighbor a few houses down has a Maine Coon that lounges outside with it's harness on attached to a tether while the owner is outside. That's the way to responsibly do it.
I have yet to see one person justify a cat being allowed to roam loose while dogs cannot. I guess in my case if I go key the people's cars to where the only "fix" is a sandown and complete painting and go pee & poo on their doorstep and kill their birds and leave the carcasses scattered about and sit outside their home at 2 am causing their dogs to go absolutely apeshit, and then slash their b-b-que grill cover to bits, then maybe they will get the point. Oh, & let's not dumping some fleas near their front door so their dogs will get infested.
Sorry folks, but there is NO excuse for allowing your animal to trespass onto someone's property and destroy someone's personal property. I don't care if it's a dog, cat, or goldfish.
As for leash training a cat, I've seen it done numerous times. I cannot count the number of cats that came into the clinic on a harness and leash. And my neighbor a few houses down has a Maine Coon that lounges outside with it's harness on attached to a tether while the owner is outside. That's the way to responsibly do it.
So Dizzy cats who use people's garden's as litterboxes should just 'suck it up' cause its a cat.. therefore if it goes on your property its ok. But if a dog runs over and poops in your lawn that is wrong? I know many children who could never play in their sand boxes because the neighbourhood cats thought it made a great outdoor litterbox. But is that ok because its a cat?
If a person enjoys watching birds and has bird feeders, but birds can't come because the cats lie in wait for them. (so they took down their feeders) But its ok cause its a cat?
Cat scratches outdoor furniture, cars, etc thats ok .. because its a cat?
The cat teases your dog, sits looking in your window causing your dogs to break things in the house trying to get at them.. but that ok right? Its a cat!
Soo what is it that my dogs are going to do roaming loose that your cats aren't.
So far I can't see anything my dogs would do that is anything worse than what a cat would do... (except Dekka who would snark at peoples dogs)
If a person enjoys watching birds and has bird feeders, but birds can't come because the cats lie in wait for them. (so they took down their feeders) But its ok cause its a cat?
Cat scratches outdoor furniture, cars, etc thats ok .. because its a cat?
The cat teases your dog, sits looking in your window causing your dogs to break things in the house trying to get at them.. but that ok right? Its a cat!
Soo what is it that my dogs are going to do roaming loose that your cats aren't.
So far I can't see anything my dogs would do that is anything worse than what a cat would do... (except Dekka who would snark at peoples dogs)