Dog Bite Question

[Renee750il]

What are the odds that anyone who is there is going to back her up if she tries to make a big deal out of it? Especially your dad.

Animal control doesn't - in my experience in the rural south - get involved in that kind of thing anyway, not more than a perfunctory visit if someone really, really pushes them.

 

[Doberluv]

This is not to say that I don't think it's horrible. I feel awful for that little dog and it's suffering. If I had a dog that I thought might do something that serious, I'd probably be extra careful leaving it loose even if it stayed on my property, just because it would be so sad if it killed a little dog. I think I'd want a fence for sure. But that wouldn't do any good if "my aunt" brought her little dog and placed it on the ground near my dangerous dog. Maybe your aunt, although she knew her own dog was apt to antagonize, didn't think that your dog would hurt it. But that's just it. She didn't think at all.

I had some neighbors once where I use to live...several acreage parcels down the road who had about 5 Irish wolfhounds. They bred and showed them. They had a big, tall chain link fence all around their 10 acres for their dogs. A little white fluffy mix breed dog who didn't live in that neighborhood (no one knew where he came from) wandered in and somehow got under their fence. Those dogs killed the little dog and my other neighbor saw the whole thing and was horrified, naturally. Who's fault was it? The owners of the wolfhounds or the owners of the little white dog? Yes, there was a fence in this case. But the GSD of the op's remained on the Dad's property...right?

 

[Miakoda]

The first thing to figure out is if you have a leash law. If so, you could both be fined, but usually each owner is then responsible for the treatment of his/her own dog. And that's the end of it.

My advice is to try and calm down and talk to your aunt about it. Find out the truth behind her dog's injuries. And then calmly and rationaly state your mind about the whole situation. IMO if some dog runs up to one of mine on my own property, that dog is fair game and there is NO way I am responsible. Couple that with the fact that I will tell the cops that I felt threatened and it's all over at that point.

This incident might be the "straw that broke the came's back" in terms of family relationships, but it needs to be dealt with without emotions running amuck. I wish you the best.

 

[Squishy22]

I agree with carrie 100%

Nope, not your fault in my opinion. The law might see it much differently though.

I feel bad for the poodles pain and suffering, but I do not feel bad for its owner. maybe she will learn to keep her dog from bullying other bigger dogs or dogs in general.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

we'll have to agree to disagree, Dober...I do have experience with dog aggro dogs, and prey driven dogs...being that I come from Akitas. Their reactions are quite often, extreme...like this, and no I do not consider that the norm within dog groups...I consider that the result of man's purposeful breeding which has messed with their "off" switch due to their being fought.

As someone said a separate issue to deal with outside of this situation.

But because so many people stop by this site...and may read this thread...and consider one dog picking another up and shaking it until it ceases to move or cry out (which is the likely outcome if no one intervened)...is normal to canine canine behavior, I just wanted to mention I personally, do not consider it to be so.

For the OP I hope the family issue can be worked out...and that the injured dog recovers fully...and that no further incidents occur with your dogs. Best of luck.

 

[bubbatd]

We have a leash law here , but many times Ollie is in our front yard ( unfenced ) ,with me . The little poodle next door could get out of his fenced in area and come over to torment and nip . Had Ollie ever grabbed that pup , whose fault would it be ???? Sadly little Cinnamon was hit by a car , so Ollie and I don't worry anymore .

 

[grab01]

It doesn't sound as if this was on the GSD's property, I believe it was the OP's father's home. I don't take my dogs to friends or relative's homes and let them run amok or act defensive around it.

That said, I believe both owners made unwise decisions having their dogs off leash. Knowing the poodle is snarky around other dogs, I think it was a poor decision to allow them off leash around each other, just due to the size difference. Even a normal dog 'correction' could seriously injure a smaller dog.
The aunt was foolish to leave her dog uncontrolled around the other dogs, yes, but it does sound as if she's a bit clueless about her dog's behavior. I think in that situation, it is up to everyone else to protect their own dogs by having them leashed.

The picking up and shaking does seem more of a prey response. While I think both owners were at fault, I know if it were my larger dog who wounded a small dog in that manner, especially were it a family member's dog, I'd pay the vet bills

 

[Dekka]

on.

But because so many people stop by this site...and may read this thread...and consider one dog picking another up and shaking it until it ceases to move or cry out (which is the likely outcome if no one intervened)...is normal to canine canine behavior, I just wanted to mention I personally, do not consider it to be so.

Normal does not mean acceptable. Its 'normal' for dog to jump all over returning friends and family.. but we spend an awful lot of time training them out of it. IMO it is fairly 'normal' for a dog to react to a small running animal as prey.. or to see a full on frontal 'assault' coming and do something about it. Does that make it acceptable? Not really.

I dont' think its your fault if its exactly as stated. If you do opt to pay a portion for family harmony I would ask for a copy of the vet bill and a report of injuries from the vet. That way she can't inflate the cost or the damage!

 

[ihartgonzo]

The dog shouldn't be allowed to run around and play on its own property?

On her own property, sure. But if I understood the whole story correctly... the OP was visiting her Dad's house, the dogs were all out running around, and the Aunt arrived with her Poodle. I'm not saying this is something that the OP could have predicted beforehand, if her GSD has been fine with small animals until now, but the behavior she describes sounds completely prey driven... not defensive, or anything near polite dog-dog interaction. To that GSD, at that moment, the Poodle was prey.

So, yes, it would be advisable that the OP keeps her dog leashed/contained when any small dogs or small animals that aren't a direct part of the family are nearby. Personally, I would not trust a dog that displayed this type of drive unsupervised/unleashed around small animals ever again. I honestly don't feel that the Poodle being a brat was the cause for this attack - prey drive just kicks in, sometimes completely out of nowhere.

 

[puppydog]

I think laughing at the situation shows a definate lack of caring which can equate to a lack of training. The OP got this dog from a man in a parking lott, so who knows her breeding.

I truly do believe that you should be able to call your dog of ANYTHING. If you do not have that control over your dog they should be very very closely supervised.

 

[SarahFair]

I would just like to say that I had NO idea the poodle was coming over. I asked my father if she was bringing the dog and he said no. I guess she changed her mind. If I would have known she was bringing the dog I would have properly restrained my dogs. Her dog has snapped and nipped rudis face while sitting in my aunts lap. She seemed to think that was funny. I just think my aunt should have called and said 'Hey Im going to bring Tess' then everything would have been fine.


Paying the vet bills is just not acceptable in everyones opinion (except my aunt who already got the money out of my grandmother). My aunt is just mad at everyone cause they laughed (which was wrong...) and has her little pin head of a daughter (who was laughing right along with everyone else...and even well on into the night) over there filling her head with awful lies...shes going around saying my dog has bitten my SOs best friend twice and we have to keep her chained down cause shes SO aggressive, which are complete LIES. I tied rudi away at my sons 3rd birthday party because I had 20+ people in my small house and running around my yard. Putting a big dog in the mix just would not end up gracefully. Not to mention the moonwalk she probly would have wanted to check out.

Rudi is the biggest puppy. I dont see her just attacking something! If that were the case I wouldnt have my cats kitten or chickens and I certainly wouldnt allow her around my children!

 

[SarahFair]

Is there a temperament test I could give her that yall know of?

 

[Gempress]

Rudi gets along with just about everything (except unwelcomed dogs in our yard)

My dad said the only dog Tess gets along with is his JRT Gent.

Just going from those two sentences, I think this was a situation that was doomed to failure from the beginning. You and your aunt took two dogs---both having been dog aggressive before, and one that is knowingly "neutrotic"---and they got together with no leashes, no careful introduction, and no other controls.

I know it was your aunt's off-leash dog who approached yours. But by the same token, your dog was also not under control. I have to admit, it alarms me that you have a large dog who you know has moments of dog aggression, yet you allow her to run free in an open area without a leash. And yes, not liking strange dogs who come into your yard IS a form of dog aggression. It's not "protecting herself".

I have a large dog with mild dog aggression. And Voodoo is not allowed ANYWHERE off-leash, even though he has a perfect recall. Not even on our own property. He is not even left alone in my 6-foot-fenced yard without a tether, because he can jump the fence. If he ever escaped my control and got angry at another dog, he could kill it. And I will not risk that.

I would take this event as a warning. You now know how your dog reacts---so plan for it. Please take precautions with your dog. Dog aggression occurs naturally with many breeds and individuals, and it doesn't mean your dog is "defective". It also doesn't mean that your dog will become aggressive to humans. Dog aggression and human aggression are two completely different things. But you NEED to be more careful in the future.

 

[puppydog]

But she did attack. The onus is on you now to be mindful of her at all times.

 

[corgipower]

I would say it's everyone's fault. It's not the fault of the dogs, it's the fault of the owners.

The GSD has a right to defend himself and his property, but if he's going to aggress, the owner needs to have more verbal control on him.

The poodle, if the dog is unliked so badly, needs to not be given a chance to be with the other dogs. The poodle could come over if it's kept on leash, under verbal control, physically separated from the other dogs.

The other people there laughing may have contributed by being excited. It was a situation that needed calm control. It's a tough way to learn lessons, but hopefully you'll work on call offs with your dog, hopefully your aunt will keep her dog away from dogs that don't like her, hopefully your aunt will work on training her dog to perhaps be able to play with the dogs, hopefully your aunt will spend more time with the poodle.

As for legalities, I hope it doesn't come to a court battle. If it won't be taken as an admission of guilt, I would pay half the vet bill.

 

[lizzybeth727]

Is there a temperament test I could give her that yall know of?

I think you have all the temperment information you need after these interactions.

 

[Angel Chicken]

Just going from those two sentences, I think this was a situation that was doomed to failure from the beginning. You and your aunt took two dogs---both having been dog aggressive before, and one that is knowingly "neutrotic"---and they got together with no leashes, no careful introduction, and no other controls.

I know it was your aunt's off-leash dog who approached yours. But by the same token, your dog was also not under control. I have to admit, it alarms me that you have a large dog who you know has moments of dog aggression, yet you allow her to run free in an open area without a leash. And yes, not liking strange dogs who come into your yard IS a form of dog aggression. It's not "protecting herself".

I have a large dog with mild dog aggression. And Voodoo is not allowed ANYWHERE off-leash, even though he has a perfect recall. Not even on our own property. He is not even left alone in my 6-foot-fenced yard without a tether, because he can jump the fence. If he ever escaped my control and got angry at another dog, he could kill it. And I will not risk that.

I would take this event as a warning. You now know how your dog reacts---so plan for it. Please take precautions with your dog. Dog aggression occurs naturally with many breeds and individuals, and it doesn't mean your dog is "defective". It also doesn't mean that your dog will become aggressive to humans. Dog aggression and human aggression are two completely different things. But you NEED to be more careful in the future.

Gemp, great post. :hail:

If you knew your dog was unwelcome with other dogs, why not have her on a lead at all times? Kona is off lead 98% of the time here, but if I know there is a dog/human around that she does not know, she gets put on the lead. Because if someone or some dog were to approach me in a rude manner, she'd be on them like white on rice.

This all could have been prevented easily, really...

 

[SarahFair]

Well like I said...If I knew the dog was coming over I would have restrained my dogs properly. Last I heard 'Betsy is on her way over and she is not bringing Tess' next thing I know I hear my aunt and cousin walking through the woods and here comes Tess charging out of the woods

She was FINE with my dads dog and has always been fine with him in the past. I had no worries and was trying to relax and enjoy my time with the family and dogs.

 

[Sweet72947]

This all could have been prevented easily, really...

Yeah it could have, by the aunt not bringing the dog over! People need to read:

I would just like to say that I had NO idea the poodle was coming over. I asked my father if she was bringing the dog and he said no. I guess she changed her mind. If I would have known she was bringing the dog I would have properly restrained my dogs. Her dog has snapped and nipped rudis face while sitting in my aunts lap. She seemed to think that was funny. I just think my aunt should have called and said 'Hey Im going to bring Tess' then everything would have been fine.

It is normal for a dog to shake a smaller animal in order to break its neck. That is how a lot of wild canids kill small prey. My friend's golden retriever does the same thing to squirrels that he catches. And I'm sure many of your dogs do the same thing to their toys. People have bred dogs to help them in the hunt, but now that we live in Suburbia and those skills are no longer needed, dogs who use them become "vicious killers".

I am sorry for the dog who got hurt, but I feel that this incident is mostly the aunt's fault, and that there is a little overreacting here in this thread about a dog's normal drives. (Like doberkim said though, it wasn't acceptable in this instance).

 

[dr2little]

Well so Rudi doesnt back down to Tesses advances and takes off after her. Being a larger dog she catches up before anyone really knows whats happening and has ahold of Tess. From what I see Rudi has Tess by the neck and is just kinda....well not slinging her but shaking her. My cousin runs down the hill (im up in the garage running after them) and kicks rudi away and grabs up Tess. My aunt takes the dog and everyone is kinda laughing at her cause no one likes to dogs for their own reasons. My aunt is yelling 'I dont think its very funny' and Im trying to appologize for what happend. She takes the dog home and we dont hear from her again.

Sorry, but aside from the entire thing being just a complete disaster waiting to happen, as soon as I read this I felt sick. I don't care who is involved, or how obnoxious a dog is, an attack is NEVER anything to laugh at. A grab and shake......:yikes:most small dogs don't survive this kind of incident.

This was wrong from the start, everyone is at fault and the real victim here is the little "obnoxious" dog.