Unaltered dogs.

I have no issue with people bringing unaltered dogs anywhere as long as the owners have them under control. As far as dog parks go, I don't see why someone can't just leave their females in heat at home until they are finished. We have unaltered males at our park that our fine, but the one female in heat we've come across was busy trying to eat the faces of any dog that came near her. It could be that only that one female reacted that way, but dog parks can be high energy, high intensity places anyway, it just seems needlessly risky to add a female in heat into the mix.

I only had dogs as an adult.. and I am on my 4th now.. of the 4, 3 was girls and 1 a boy.

I did neuter the male - for several reasons. First of all, cause I had a girl at the same time, and since he was a doberman mix and she was a yorkie, I really didn't want any accidents. And second, cause he really wasn't the most fortunate mix.. his mom was close to whatchacallitinenglish?.. when the dog is nervous and tends to be aggressive. And he's dad was a dominant dog, who got to roam free most of the time.. and behind him was apparantly lots of HD. That was not what I wanted to have accident puppies with.

Only one girl was neutered - she got diabetes, and I was told it was common to do that, to keep the diabetes better in check.


BUT apart from that, I see some people here neuter their dogs, mostly males, thinking the dog will be 'better behaved' after. And I am left thinking, whey the heck they just didn't train the dog better in the first place.

I don't think the intact dogs are the problem - it will always be the owner.
If your dog is welltrained, and the owner is considerate - it is no big deal.

But you hear the funniest arguments from people, when they try to justify not having trained their dogs. One of the most ridiculous must be from the owner of a siberian husky. It was pulling on the leash - HARD. And they sometimes talked my mom into walking it, and she's a little old lady. When she tried talking to them about the pulling-problem, they said it was cause it was a sled-dog... it was supposed to pull
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Of course that makes perfect sense when you get way up north.. the dogsleds are just whoooshing by, and you jump on and off them while they pass you... sheeeeeeeeeeesh

I think that a bias based on something so inconsistent is really ridiculous, honestly. Do I think that female dogs in heat should be parading around at dog events? No! If I had a female in heat, I would even ban her from walks around the neighborhood, to spare the rest of the dogs nearby the frustration. But having an intact dog really isn't that much different from having an altered dog - if the dog isn't trained and socialized to begin with, they probably won't be after losing their huevos.

I just started working at the Petsmart Hotel, and it's annoying that ALL unaltered dogs are banned from group play, regardless of their temperament. I spent 2 hours tirelessly re-directing/squirting/time-outing a neutered Cockapoo for literally attempting to rape this poor Shih Tzu, and a neutered Boston Terrier who was also attempting to ravage an old, male Beagle. This was not dominance/play humping, it was full-out. Gross, rude dogs given no restrictions. It has nothing to do with their testicles or lack thereof. These dogs are allowed to go to play groups, while the sweetest, most polite little unaltered Mini Bull Terrier is not.

Around here and walking in town you don't have much of a chance of a stray dog. And in my experience a well trained dog does not loose her training when in heat. (and if she did then no I wouldnt' take her out) But the obed club I was at would let girls in heat come to class, the more advanced classes, as long as they were wearing panties. NONE of the girls ever stopped working-and they were off leash- to go see a boy. Kaiden (a stud dog) would do his sits and downs right beside girls in heat and stay put. The fustration level of the males isn't a big deal-if they are sufficiently trained and know when is NOT the time to think with their parts. I speak from owning multiple intact males of various breeds.

Heck if you ride a 1600 pound stallion around mares in heat (and vs versa) I don't see why you can't expect a dog.. no matter how large.. to stay mannered.

Now if the bitch isn't trained very well to begin with .. then no you don't take her out if you can't physically control her. LOL I showed a 17hh old style hannovarian stallion at his first show. He was a fully mature (8 years old) stud. If he had wanted to breed a mare there was nothing I could have done to physically stop him. He was fine. We had an AQHA stallion (much smaller though) who showed and hacked with mares and never put a foot wrong.

But horse people tend (there are some who don't.. usually those who have never been around stallions) to be fine with intact horses in public.

Dogs are even easier than horses. And breeding isn't instant. There is courtship behaviour first.

I agree. My latest dog before Pixel, was pretty big girl.. and since I am a wuss, she could have dragged me anywhere she pleased.
But the fact is, that no matter what, even if she was peaking in heat, I could have her under control without a leash. No matter how hard her hormones pulled at her, she would still take commands in a second. I really do miss her, she was something quite special.

Talulah's not well trained by a long shot (other than listening to me when I tell them something I have no real interest in it), but she still listened when in heat (she's now spayed after she reached maturity).

Kharma . . . she will listen, but it's harder on her. An old-style Fila's not like the more domestic breeds. The instincts are stronger -- far more intense, and if you're tuned in you can feel the internal battles. And you'd better have serious respect for the capability of a dog who can -- and will -- turn a 2400+ pound bull . . . at six months old, or disarm a very large man at 7 months.

Besides, no matter how well Kharma would listen to me, that odd male dog isn't likely to care what I say or do to him, short of sending his nuts back up into his abdomen.

Do I believe she'll listen to me? Absolutely. Is she far too precious to me to risk her? You better believe it.

ANY untrained, out of control dog should not be in public. I don't care where he/she is altered or not.

I would not bring my dogs to a dog park, altered or not.
However, I bring them everywhere else and they do great. Altered or not, all dogs should be under control when in public (this is so not the case though, wishful thinking I know) Control is not a matter of intact or not intact, it is something else entirely.

But I do think spaying and neutering offers many benefits, and I think the average owner has a hard time controlling their dogs, intact or not. One danger with owners who are not 100% responsible (which is many) is intact isn't just affecting the one dog and their dogs health, they are affecting MANY others for generations as they produce more puppies - accidently or not, like the two intact dogs (different owners) in my neighborhood and met up one time and had 9 puppies, who also went intact to their new homes. One owner kept 4 of them.

:hail::hail::hail:

What we haven't been able to figure out is that we have two intact males, and they have never once EVER humped each other. Just plain weird. lol.

I would say that Bimmer never has either, but he did once. Kharma was in heat and a neighbor wouldn't stop turning his unaltered Lab mix loose. It was getting to the point that I couldn't even take her out of the front door long enough to potty

Bimmer humped Chester, then when Herbie finally came over to get Chester (after I'd taken him home NUMEROUS times) and bent over to put Chester's leash on him, Bimmer got Herbie . . . not on the leg :rofl1:

Last time Chester got loose

See to me this doesn't sound like he is under control 100 % of the time. If he is showing agression and bullying or humping I don't think he should be there.

Thanks every one. I agee aswell obviously that any well trained dog, be fixed or not should go any where. Females in heat is the exception to me at a dog park offcourse. only becuase, yes even if you think your male is in control, you really never ever know. Blaze has been around 2 females in heat at the dog park, sigh. And I had full control, and he never once tried anything, even when the cute little border collie was flirting her heart out at him.


I agree. if you have to muzzle your dog to be at a dog park, that is nto control at all, thats putting a bandaid on a large wound IMO.

I voted that they should be, as long as they are under control. I don't have intact animals for my own convenience. I personally don't want to deal with smelly urine from my boy and I don't want to worry about him taking off if there is a female in heat.

I was not willing to put in the extra time for an intact dog, so I had them altered.

I see your point and agree Carrie. It's been one year now since Orson has been altered. In this past year I have noticed him being much more "jumpy" and nervous acting. Before being neutered, we (him and me) went to the pet supply all the time, walks anywhere, and everything was fine. Now since being altered he is on the offensive constantly............seems to have the attitude "I will get you before you get me" and I just don't feel as comfortable taking him as many places.

Before his neuter he was content to stay beside me in the stores, and as long as the other dogs stayed out of our space he could care less if they were around or not. Fast forward to NOW.........he wants to bark and "warn them" to stay away before they've even gotten close to us, he wants to jerk me towards them in an attempt to sniff them. I can honestly see "fear reactions" in him and I don't like it one bit.

Is this all due to his neuter? I don't think so, and I'm not going to lay it all on the neuter because I have had other altered dogs and never seen a change in them........Phoebe for example is laid back and relaxed around strangers, dogs, loud noises or anything and she's been altered for over 8 years.

In my opinion Orson already had the propensity for this behavior/these reactions and the altering (lack of hormones) just made them stronger/worse.

Amen sister! TELL IT LOUD AND PROUD! :hail::hail:

Though normally this is the case, I was present for a breeding that was literally dogs let loose, male mounted the female, two pumps, and they were tied. Less than 5 seconds, no joke. So it CAN happen that quickly while an owner's back is turned.

I don't like dog parks, period. But really if someone is STUPID enough to bring a female in heat to a dog park . . . . ugh.

When Teeny is in heat she stays home. We don't have a leash law in my town so I'm not going to chance running into loose intact males during our walks. Teeny listens slightly less when she is in heat, but she still listens. BLUE on the other hand loses his mind COMPLETELY when Teeny is in heat. You look at him and literally no one is home upstairs, he is completely driven by hormones and NOTHING else. It makes training him near impossible (I have to take him to a different location and give him some time to grow his brain back).

Just last week one of my friends had his male Mal EAT HIS WAY THROUGH HIS OUTDOOR KENNEL trying to get to a female in heat in the garage. Not a normal behavior for his dog at all. I have another friend who's male dog will not eat if any of her females are in heat.

So this goes beyond just having control of your dogs in public when we're talking about hormones. So no, I really don't think that females in heat should be offleash in public for many many many reasons. Intact dogs in general, that's the owners call though personally I wouldn't do it. I allow my intact dogs to interact in controlled settings with other dogs (work, friends houses, etc) but heck, I didn't even let my neutered males socialize offleash in public either.

I agree with Sis. Ben is neutered. He spends his days at my mothers house with Lilly and their border collie.
Their neighbours poodle was in heat a few weeks back. He turned into a marking, lip quivering, no listening mess! LOL!
He humped Lilly twice before he nearly lost his proverbial nuts again. She does not put up with it.

It really is amazing how a male can loose his mind when a female is in heat. I know this is not a rule and many dogs are perfect gentlemen, mine is just not one of them! LOL!

The arguement of a bitch in heat and being in public around stud dogs also depends on if that bitch is ovulating or not.
My stud dog, yep he is a well behaved dog, great dog to have in the public with people and other dogs.............ovulating bitch thats flagging..........want to see how fast his good behaviour goes out the door and see how fast he would jump her (if she was willing of course) and tie???? Can you snap your fingers??? Thats how long it would take him unleashed with a willing bitch. And he wouldn't look to me to ask if it was ok, he already got the ok from the bitch. lol.

And there are too many events/orgs that DON'T allow in heat bitches to compete nor be on the show grounds etc.

The bottom line is people need to know their dogs and have them trained regardless of whether they are intact or not.

It goes beyond just where an intact dog is allowed too. At my vets, the stand-in vet for the main vet is very snarky about intact dogs. She always tries to push getting them neutered. In my town, it's law to have your dog registered with the township but registering an intact dog is THREE TIMES the price of registering an altered dog!!!!

Ronan goes everywhere with me as does OC. Both behave as it is expected of them. Yes I do have to keep a closer eye on Ronan and what's in his surroundings but that's just a part of responsible ownership. He is never off leash and in busy places he is usually on a traffic handle so he can't wander. He doesn't get to go to the dog park when other dogs are present either. Like already has been mentioned its all about knowing your own dog. But that should be the case whether or not your dog is intact anyways.

I voted other, becuase it is way beyond me why they should even be considered "different" than any other dog or that it would even be considered they should be held to a different standard than any other dog.

if a dog can't be controlled it doesn't matter its breed, its size, how many teeth or testicles it has, likewise a dog that is well mannered is a well mannered dog and should be allowed anywhere. Plus it is nobody's **** business what my dogs are if they aren't causing any problems.

I may speak from a different perspective, but I attend events (dog shows) on a regular basis where there are literally THOUSANDS of intact dogs, including bitches in season. I can count on one hand the issues/confrontations I have seen in 20 years of attending such events.

The testicles or ovaries are not the problem. The one holding the leash is the problem, if there is one.

My intact dogs are well behaved and under control no matter where I take them. Point in fact, Milton just spent the weekend at the Charlotte 600 in the infield. He probably socialized with HUNDREDS of people. Big people, little people, kids, men, women, sober people, drunk people, loud people, you name it. Had a great time and made so many new friends for himself, and for his breed.