What do you personally believe in?...
- Thread starter Kase
- Start date
Reading page after page its makes me aware of how different my beleifs are and my religon is. And how so many others are similar to each other I mean in most religons I think you beleive in god or jesus (I think cause i don't really know). You do realize that alot of them are not that different.
You know if you have a christmas tree thats a pagan thing? lol
You know if you have a christmas tree thats a pagan thing? lol
BigDog- I don't think it's fair to bash Tessa.
That's everyone's whole point who DOES NOT believe in God. That there is no real "proof".
Believing in God does not require proof, as we "scientists" we would like. There is no real answer other than just believing. People who believe in God have their own "proof". He comforted them when they were in need. He gave them a sense of being loved when they didn't feel love.
For people who believe in God those are reasons enough. For people that don't that's no enough reason.
That's everyone's whole point who DOES NOT believe in God. That there is no real "proof".
Believing in God does not require proof, as we "scientists" we would like. There is no real answer other than just believing. People who believe in God have their own "proof". He comforted them when they were in need. He gave them a sense of being loved when they didn't feel love.
For people who believe in God those are reasons enough. For people that don't that's no enough reason.
T
And your argument holds no faith or passion. Just depends..would you rather have faith, love, and passion for an awesome God, or be lonely and "rational".
BigDog, if an arguement or debate is what you are looking for, you will not get one from me. I have expressed myself to the best of my ability already in this thread. I have given my arguements, I've tried to show my honest love and passion for God. I can do nothing else but hope that my words, with the help of God, will help guide someone in the right direction.
BigDog, if an arguement or debate is what you are looking for, you will not get one from me. I have expressed myself to the best of my ability already in this thread. I have given my arguements, I've tried to show my honest love and passion for God. I can do nothing else but hope that my words, with the help of God, will help guide someone in the right direction.
Oh, it holds passion. Why should I have faith, love and passion where he doesn't have it for me? (see my 2nd post in this thread)
Tessa: you've been arguing and debating this whole time and now you don't want to do it with me? I'm just having a discussion, I'm not baring my teeth here. I think you should keep going if you're so passionate and caring about this lost soul... right?
Tessa: you've been arguing and debating this whole time and now you don't want to do it with me? I'm just having a discussion, I'm not baring my teeth here. I think you should keep going if you're so passionate and caring about this lost soul... right?
This part (previously posted):
It's nice to see a thread like this as I've already pointed out in a previous post. I feel like as of late I've been on a spiritual journey... looking for answers. I've talked to many people about Christianity among other religions and I've maintained an almost Agnostic view for a period of time... but I feel like I'm moving on into, yes, you guessed it, Christianity. Clive Staples Lewis has a way with words, I suppose
(Mere Christianity, great book by C.S. Lewis).
But there are a couple of questions I have and I want to see the answers I get from some Christians among the board. And I've asked quite a few actually, I've talked to a lot of people on my journey.
First of all, how can somebody worship a God as immoral and cruel as the one that the Christian religion makes God out to be? According to Christianity - He has:
Turned somebody into a pillar of salt.
Killed 50,000+ people just because a few looked into the Ark of the Covenant.
Ordered the genocide of an entire race including the animals, infants, and women (Amalekites).
And not to mention, torturing people for eternity for a lack of belief in Him and the Christian religion. Christianity makes God out to be worse than any human dictator.
He is unfair; He dishes out infinite punishment for finite sins quite sadistically as well (hell is meant only to inflict pain.. for eternity).
Christians say: God gives us a choice, we don't have to burn in hell, he gives us a way out.
But I say to you, what kind of choice is it? Would you rather get your throat slit or get shot in the head? An abusive father says: constantly praise and adore me or be beaten.
Christians say: God is giving us the way out OF HELL, it's a free gift, please take it!
But I say - are you suggesting that hell exists outside of God's control? Is the devil so POWERFUL as to win souls? In this analogy you portray God as someone who is trying to protect a child of a danger which exists outside of His control. But that's like a parent saying to his son: "Don't go into the street or you'll get run over by a car" and then the son goes out into the street and the parent gets in a bus and runs them over.
Christians say: God doesn't send us to hell, we send ourselves.
But I say - hey, God is the one who CREATED hell, why would He do that? It was created for Satan and his demons but if a parent buys an oven to bake cookies and puts his children in there, it does NOT remove his guilt. It's God's choice to put us there since he created it, he made it for us, in a way, it's sort of his tool. Nice and loving, eh?
Also, another example: I do agree. We punish ourselves. A man indulges in his sexual lust, he gets aids and lives a crappy life. God takes it one step further and then damns the man to hell forEVER.
And I have one more thing to say which bothers me about the Christian religion; or rather, a passage. Apparently, animals have no souls. Which means I will not see Rocky in heaven, if I were to go there. That doesn't make me happy. Not one bit. If my family is not there with me, then I cannot be happy up there. But the bible says the household of a Christian will also be in heaven. But if you consider an animal to be a part of your household then how does that hold water?
God created animals. Scientifically, we ARE animals. But what seperates us from other animals is that we're more intelligent. But then you'd ask, so if there here for no reason at all - then why did God create them? I imagine God would say 'to help humans'... but they do help us, perhaps they love us and I love them, to take them away in the final stage of 'life' (heaven) is just one more cruel and immoral thing God could do.
It's nice to see a thread like this as I've already pointed out in a previous post. I feel like as of late I've been on a spiritual journey... looking for answers. I've talked to many people about Christianity among other religions and I've maintained an almost Agnostic view for a period of time... but I feel like I'm moving on into, yes, you guessed it, Christianity. Clive Staples Lewis has a way with words, I suppose
(Mere Christianity, great book by C.S. Lewis). But there are a couple of questions I have and I want to see the answers I get from some Christians among the board. And I've asked quite a few actually, I've talked to a lot of people on my journey.
First of all, how can somebody worship a God as immoral and cruel as the one that the Christian religion makes God out to be? According to Christianity - He has:
Turned somebody into a pillar of salt.
Killed 50,000+ people just because a few looked into the Ark of the Covenant.
Ordered the genocide of an entire race including the animals, infants, and women (Amalekites).
And not to mention, torturing people for eternity for a lack of belief in Him and the Christian religion. Christianity makes God out to be worse than any human dictator.
He is unfair; He dishes out infinite punishment for finite sins quite sadistically as well (hell is meant only to inflict pain.. for eternity).
Christians say: God gives us a choice, we don't have to burn in hell, he gives us a way out.
But I say to you, what kind of choice is it? Would you rather get your throat slit or get shot in the head? An abusive father says: constantly praise and adore me or be beaten.
Christians say: God is giving us the way out OF HELL, it's a free gift, please take it!
But I say - are you suggesting that hell exists outside of God's control? Is the devil so POWERFUL as to win souls? In this analogy you portray God as someone who is trying to protect a child of a danger which exists outside of His control. But that's like a parent saying to his son: "Don't go into the street or you'll get run over by a car" and then the son goes out into the street and the parent gets in a bus and runs them over.
Christians say: God doesn't send us to hell, we send ourselves.
But I say - hey, God is the one who CREATED hell, why would He do that? It was created for Satan and his demons but if a parent buys an oven to bake cookies and puts his children in there, it does NOT remove his guilt. It's God's choice to put us there since he created it, he made it for us, in a way, it's sort of his tool. Nice and loving, eh?
Also, another example: I do agree. We punish ourselves. A man indulges in his sexual lust, he gets aids and lives a crappy life. God takes it one step further and then damns the man to hell forEVER.
And I have one more thing to say which bothers me about the Christian religion; or rather, a passage. Apparently, animals have no souls. Which means I will not see Rocky in heaven, if I were to go there. That doesn't make me happy. Not one bit. If my family is not there with me, then I cannot be happy up there. But the bible says the household of a Christian will also be in heaven. But if you consider an animal to be a part of your household then how does that hold water?
God created animals. Scientifically, we ARE animals. But what seperates us from other animals is that we're more intelligent. But then you'd ask, so if there here for no reason at all - then why did God create them? I imagine God would say 'to help humans'... but they do help us, perhaps they love us and I love them, to take them away in the final stage of 'life' (heaven) is just one more cruel and immoral thing God could do.
T
Lol.
The difference from up until now and then now, is that up until now I was just being listened to. And we were having a nice discussion. And I wasn't feeling bashed or attacked, and certainly not harshly questioned. Fact is, you are here for a debate. And arguement. Here to prove me wrong, and prove yourself right. And debates are not what gets a person to believe. They aren't. I know this from experience. And I know I promised myself I would never be one of those christians that would debate God to only prove myself right, for only my own pride and selfish reasons. And continueing would be doing that. I have already stated all that I can. From now on I'd only be repeating myself(which I think I've already been doing anyway. Lol).
So, good day, and happy debating.
The difference from up until now and then now, is that up until now I was just being listened to. And we were having a nice discussion. And I wasn't feeling bashed or attacked, and certainly not harshly questioned. Fact is, you are here for a debate. And arguement. Here to prove me wrong, and prove yourself right. And debates are not what gets a person to believe. They aren't. I know this from experience. And I know I promised myself I would never be one of those christians that would debate God to only prove myself right, for only my own pride and selfish reasons. And continueing would be doing that. I have already stated all that I can. From now on I'd only be repeating myself(which I think I've already been doing anyway. Lol).
So, good day, and happy debating.
I don't feel that she's been debating. Tessa has posted that she once felt the same way but now doesn't.
I know with me personally, nothing anyone could say, unless they had some sort of proof unknown to mankind, could convince me.
No experience. No scripture. Nothing.
I don't want to hear anything, I want to see it. I don't want to "feel" his "calm" come over me. I feel calm all the time.
Even though I feel this way, I still understand where Christians are coming from, and I admire the fact that they can believe and have faith wholeheartedly in something that does not have any "real" proof. As in you can't show me God, I can't talk to God...
You must understand Christianity BigDog. And if you really understand it, than you know that you'll never get the answer your looking for. For me, anything a person who believes in God states about having "proof" I could debate until my face turned blue.
But that's not the point. The point is just having pure faith without real proof, without wanting "real" proof.
I know with me personally, nothing anyone could say, unless they had some sort of proof unknown to mankind, could convince me.
No experience. No scripture. Nothing.
I don't want to hear anything, I want to see it. I don't want to "feel" his "calm" come over me. I feel calm all the time.
Even though I feel this way, I still understand where Christians are coming from, and I admire the fact that they can believe and have faith wholeheartedly in something that does not have any "real" proof. As in you can't show me God, I can't talk to God...
You must understand Christianity BigDog. And if you really understand it, than you know that you'll never get the answer your looking for. For me, anything a person who believes in God states about having "proof" I could debate until my face turned blue.
But that's not the point. The point is just having pure faith without real proof, without wanting "real" proof.
I think it would. So are you trying to tell me that you don't want anybody to question what you say; just to listen and accept? I'm sorry, Tessa, I didn't mean for you to feel bashed or harshly questioned... but this is a topic with some heat on it - and I will ask questions. All I can say is, don't take my "harsh questions" to heart.