The Human Mill is at it again...
- Thread starter MandyPug
- Start date
This is an interesting thing to think about.
On the one hand, we can't tell people not to have children, or try to control that in any way. That would violate human rights, and open the floodgates for further violations, things I don't even want to comprehend. Even though I don't believe that people should have 20 kids, I would fight vehemently against any legislation that tried to place limits. Its the principle of it all.
On the other hand, our planet now has 7 BILLION PEOPLE. That is a LOT of people for our planet to sustain. We do have to think about how we are going to allocate resources for our children and what will be left for our children's children. With today's medicine and very low infant mortality rate (except in third world countries, of course), there is no longer a need to have large families just so a few of your children will survive to reproductive age.
Sometimes I wonder if Mrs. Dugger likes being pregnant because of the attention she receives, much like a person with Munchausen Syndrome will fake being sick or injured because they like the attention they receive. I could be wrong though.
On the one hand, we can't tell people not to have children, or try to control that in any way. That would violate human rights, and open the floodgates for further violations, things I don't even want to comprehend. Even though I don't believe that people should have 20 kids, I would fight vehemently against any legislation that tried to place limits. Its the principle of it all.
On the other hand, our planet now has 7 BILLION PEOPLE. That is a LOT of people for our planet to sustain. We do have to think about how we are going to allocate resources for our children and what will be left for our children's children. With today's medicine and very low infant mortality rate (except in third world countries, of course), there is no longer a need to have large families just so a few of your children will survive to reproductive age.
Sometimes I wonder if Mrs. Dugger likes being pregnant because of the attention she receives, much like a person with Munchausen Syndrome will fake being sick or injured because they like the attention they receive. I could be wrong though.
They can do as they please.. they support themselves and their children, and they all seem happy and healthy so..whatever.
I, personally, think it's crazy. but hey, there is a lot of things people do that I don't "get". Doesn't make it wrong.
I morally, would never have that many children. As others have said, the world is over populated as it is..
but what people do with their own bodies/homes (as long as the children are healthy, well cared for and loved) is their business and entirely their right.
Hell I'd rather see these people with 20 kids supporting themselves all healthy and happy then people, for example, with 4 kids who are on welfare, can't support their children and continue to have more and mistreat the children they DO have.
*shrug*
sparknotes version: It aint my vagina and it aint my money lol
I, personally, think it's crazy. but hey, there is a lot of things people do that I don't "get". Doesn't make it wrong.
I morally, would never have that many children. As others have said, the world is over populated as it is..
but what people do with their own bodies/homes (as long as the children are healthy, well cared for and loved) is their business and entirely their right.
Hell I'd rather see these people with 20 kids supporting themselves all healthy and happy then people, for example, with 4 kids who are on welfare, can't support their children and continue to have more and mistreat the children they DO have.
*shrug*
sparknotes version: It aint my vagina and it aint my money lol
I do think there will come a point when we should have a say on how many children people can have. The earth can only support so many people. And when it gets to the point that your children are putting the rest at risk due to too little resources then it does become other people's business.
Till then, ewww, but what ever.
Till then, ewww, but what ever.
Actually, I don't think overpopulation has much to say to this. Pretty much everywhere on earth, people are having fewer children. Lo and behold, the minute women get the chance to, they have fewer kids. (By the way, the best guarantee of a lower population is women's rights . . . if women have access to birth control and are allowed to use it, they will use it) That's why the population is going to peak at 10 billion in 2050 and then start to drop rather quickly. And the only reason THAT is going to happen is that Africa and the Middle East have a huge generation that is just coming into their childbearing years . .. but no one expects them have have all that many children per couple. Probably between 1 and 3, which is what people are at, or are moving towards, everywhere. The one place where they DO limit how many children people can have, China, is beginning to regret it . . . because they are now below replacement and they have no idea how they are going to care for all those old people with the generations after them being SO much smaller. Oh, and then there's the issue of having too many boys and not enough girls, which will further crimp population but many lead to unrest . . .
Yes, there are too many people . . . but it seems that the problem is, in fact, taking care of itself. Once the current "pig in the python" is through (and that was the result of modern medicine meeting traditional societies . . . people were used to having lots of children, but not used to all of them living) the population will drop, and it will do so due to voluntary choices.
This lady is an outlier by any standards. 20 living children would have made her remarkable in any era, and choosing to have that many makes her unusual today. But our overpopulation problem is not due to people like her, and her 20 kids won't make much of a difference.
I think her decision to have 20 kids is odd . . . but we are allowed to be odd.
PS: I'm rather annoyed with people who are complaining about over population ( a real problem) yet seem unaware of the actual demographics of the situation, let alone the issues raised by too rapid a decline in births. Of course, I'm just as annoyed with those on the right who seem convinced that anyone who suggests that people should have fewer children because of overpopulation is actually suggesting genocide.
Yes, there are too many people . . . but it seems that the problem is, in fact, taking care of itself. Once the current "pig in the python" is through (and that was the result of modern medicine meeting traditional societies . . . people were used to having lots of children, but not used to all of them living) the population will drop, and it will do so due to voluntary choices.
This lady is an outlier by any standards. 20 living children would have made her remarkable in any era, and choosing to have that many makes her unusual today. But our overpopulation problem is not due to people like her, and her 20 kids won't make much of a difference.
I think her decision to have 20 kids is odd . . . but we are allowed to be odd.
PS: I'm rather annoyed with people who are complaining about over population ( a real problem) yet seem unaware of the actual demographics of the situation, let alone the issues raised by too rapid a decline in births. Of course, I'm just as annoyed with those on the right who seem convinced that anyone who suggests that people should have fewer children because of overpopulation is actually suggesting genocide.
I don't know, until you've raised a kid yourself and see what it takes day in and day out, that's a bold statement to make. All people are different, kids are different, adults are different. Some people are just amazing and can. :dunno:
In my experience as a nanny and a mom, it gets easier with more kids because the older ones help out. If it was 20 toddlers? No. 20 children spaced out a year or two? Sure. If there was enough income to support them? Sure. A lot of expenses can be absorbed since things like clothes and toys can be shared. I'm sure the Dugars aren't hurting for money anyway.
For overpopulation, China is going to see a huge dropoff once the older generation passes. And a large portion of the younger populations in African countries are HIV positive.
It's less that we have resource shortages, and more that we just need to manage them better.
EDIT: A lot of countries are offering incentives for people to have more kids, IIRC Germany is one. Korea is another, that whole "year of the golden boar" thing a few years ago was the Korean gov encouraging people to have kids by pushing that it was a super lucky/rare astrological year so everyone would go out and have "golden boar" children (it worked, even my American-Korean friend got pregnant with her boyfriend because of it).
In my experience as a nanny and a mom, it gets easier with more kids because the older ones help out. If it was 20 toddlers? No. 20 children spaced out a year or two? Sure. If there was enough income to support them? Sure. A lot of expenses can be absorbed since things like clothes and toys can be shared. I'm sure the Dugars aren't hurting for money anyway.
For overpopulation, China is going to see a huge dropoff once the older generation passes. And a large portion of the younger populations in African countries are HIV positive.
It's less that we have resource shortages, and more that we just need to manage them better.
EDIT: A lot of countries are offering incentives for people to have more kids, IIRC Germany is one. Korea is another, that whole "year of the golden boar" thing a few years ago was the Korean gov encouraging people to have kids by pushing that it was a super lucky/rare astrological year so everyone would go out and have "golden boar" children (it worked, even my American-Korean friend got pregnant with her boyfriend because of it).
lol, I don't really think there's a human overpopulation, I just say it because I'm bitter that all my favorite secluded and beautiful areas are being developed for housing
Well to be fair they raised the vast majority of those kids long before there was a tv show or any publicity. I say who cares. They take care of their kids, love them and raise them. Might they be a little weird? Sure but so what. There are far worse things kids can turn out to be other than weird.
They seem to be doing a good enough job. The kids are fed, clOthed, have adequate shelter and are obviously loved.... So whats the problem.
That is definitely not the life for me but i dont think anyone is suffering because of their choice. As for the medical emergency that was the last pregnancy... Why are People up in arms about it? My friends son was born very premature due to eclampsia. Would it be out of line fOr her to have anymore kIds?
They seem to be doing a good enough job. The kids are fed, clOthed, have adequate shelter and are obviously loved.... So whats the problem.
That is definitely not the life for me but i dont think anyone is suffering because of their choice. As for the medical emergency that was the last pregnancy... Why are People up in arms about it? My friends son was born very premature due to eclampsia. Would it be out of line fOr her to have anymore kIds?
:hail: Pretty much how I feel. Both my pregnancies had their own complications, each very different from the other. Samuel's delivery was terrifying and we almost lost him. We were seriously questioning whether it would be wise to have any more kids after this.
After talking to several docs, they all agreed that each pregnancy is different and there weren't any problems that would necessarily reoccur for any reason. Basically, it could so super smooth, or be a super complicated nightmare. Pretty much like any pregnancy. :dunno: I'd say it's her body, if she's comfortable with the risk level then it's her choice.
After talking to several docs, they all agreed that each pregnancy is different and there weren't any problems that would necessarily reoccur for any reason. Basically, it could so super smooth, or be a super complicated nightmare. Pretty much like any pregnancy. :dunno: I'd say it's her body, if she's comfortable with the risk level then it's her choice.
I think more focus should be on the twin 18-hr-old mothers who left their toddlers home alone with an oven turned on and left open. None of the kids survived the fire.
Or the woman who supposedly left her 2-yr-old alone in a car on the side of the road while she and her 4-yr-old took an hour-long hike for gas. The boy is missing.
Or the mother who just "didn't see" her 7-yr-old in the commercial frontliad washer and turned it on. She then panicked and broke the girl free. Girl has a nasty 10-inch laceration on her back.
Or the mother who watched as her boyfriend picked up her 6-week-old baby by the feet and repeatedly swung him head-first into the door frame.
There's a lot worse in this world than a bunch of polite children raised with conservative morals and values.
On the other hand, their friends, the Bates, have 18 kids. On Medicaid. Last I read they were paying out of pocket for fertility treatments (whet happened to just allowing for God's will?) all so thru could have yet another Medicaid baby.
Or the woman who supposedly left her 2-yr-old alone in a car on the side of the road while she and her 4-yr-old took an hour-long hike for gas. The boy is missing.
Or the mother who just "didn't see" her 7-yr-old in the commercial frontliad washer and turned it on. She then panicked and broke the girl free. Girl has a nasty 10-inch laceration on her back.
Or the mother who watched as her boyfriend picked up her 6-week-old baby by the feet and repeatedly swung him head-first into the door frame.
There's a lot worse in this world than a bunch of polite children raised with conservative morals and values.
On the other hand, their friends, the Bates, have 18 kids. On Medicaid. Last I read they were paying out of pocket for fertility treatments (whet happened to just allowing for God's will?) all so thru could have yet another Medicaid baby.
Yep, the more Children you have (I think we're at 3+) you collect more child money from the state. We have been having super low birth rates though for years. I think we're at 1,5 children per family at the time. When I was born it was a little higher.
The problem is, right now,it works fine, because the 60s had a high birthday, so theres enough workers to support those who are in retirement. However, when the 60s and 70s go into retirement whe have a problem. Right now, 6 people support one retieree. When my mom and dad retiree, 2 people will be supporting one retieree.
We have weird things like that too. :rofl1: Like one radio channel does 1000 babies for the new year, shortly before new years. The first 1000 to know they concieved get something for the baby. In reality its more the 1000.
Anywho, I think everyone can have as many children as they want as long as they can ALL be supported financially and psycologically throughout their lives.
The problem is, right now,it works fine, because the 60s had a high birthday, so theres enough workers to support those who are in retirement. However, when the 60s and 70s go into retirement whe have a problem. Right now, 6 people support one retieree. When my mom and dad retiree, 2 people will be supporting one retieree.
We have weird things like that too. :rofl1: Like one radio channel does 1000 babies for the new year, shortly before new years.
The first 1000 to know they concieved get something for the baby. In reality its more the 1000. Anywho, I think everyone can have as many children as they want as long as they can ALL be supported financially and psycologically throughout their lives.
Her doctors have told her that she has a good chance of dying if she has another kid. IN MY OPINION it's blatantly irresponsible to get knocked up again and run the greatly magnified risk of dying when they have 19 kids, 18 of which still live at home. However, from all I've read/seen/heard about their religion it's probably not her choice anyway...it sounds like it's all up to the husband.
(Emphasis not really directed at you Sparks....lol)
(Emphasis not really directed at you Sparks....lol)