OK, I've got a lot to address today! LOL
I came from my house thinking this thread would be long dead, but apparently not.
So here we go:
Doberluv- I contemplated, a little too late, when the collar was already on her, whether she would understand what the correction was for. But as I stated in a previous post, I firmly believe she knew that the correction was for the watch me.
We use the command watch me often. During heeling, before I leave her side on a wait and I perhaps may only be giving a hand signal with no verbal, when she barks incessantly at the people outside and it goes on. She knows the command well.
The reason I believe she understood what the correction was for, was because after the first three times she got a zap, she would maintain eye contact and the lip curl still continued. Yes, everyone is right, when they say clearly she is still uncomfortable. Quest has given me much more to think about, regarding her "safety zone".
I'm trying as best as I can to NOT sound defensive, because if an idea that's not the same as others I've tried, that is a positive method is mentioned, I will happily resort to it. But as Whatzmatter's already stated for me, this was definitely NOT a first choice. Many of the positive methods mentioned for us a few months ago, have already been exhausted with no change whatsoever.
I think as many of stated, it's so very hard to give advice over the internet, especially without knowing Roxy, or any dog for that matter. And I don't want to make her sound different than the average, but basically she is. LOL.
As so many of her "issues" circle around the fact that ROxy is more complicated than your average dog. When compared to Hades she does often get labelled plenty of human terms that would not normally apply to dogs. Her basic needs are so much more than food, water and love. She is complex.
The main reason I've resorted to this method is because of this:
The previous, positive method stated, involving only verbal aversives in almost a year has made absolutely NO progress. Roxy is the one clearly deciding when she wants to be touched and in what position.
As silverpawz stated, using obedience to control a HA dog DOES work. And it's worked so far in other situations and areas of Roxy's and my life together.
As for how she reacted to the collar. Your supposed to see a slight ear twitch, the level of stimulation varies for every dog. At one half level, Roxy shows no stimulation at all. At 1, sometimes her ear twitches other times it doesn't.
Silverpawz, Roxy has a solid stand stay, (without the examination part) won't break it for anything. I can tug on her leash, try to push her, probably fire a gun. The dog won't budge.
My trainer stood a few feet to the side of Roxy. As soon as she began to move towards Roxy, when Roxy went to turn her head, I "stimulated" her. Sometimes she wasn't even going to snarl, just watch her until she got closer.
Immediately she'd look at me. (As I was stimulating her, I would command "watch me" again) As soon as we got eye contact again, she got a verbal reward and a treat. She never moved a foot, during either three times.
After each session when she was released, it was just as normal. She jumped around, mouth open tail wagging, she'd run up to my trainer hoping for a treat etc.
Yes, even when she wasn't snarling, and keeping eye contact with me, she did look uncomfortable. Like any other method, I don't expect anything to happen overnight.
I only hope, that with enough good SFE's with the help of the collar, she'll soon realize that the act of someone examining her is NOT a bad thing. It doesn't hurt her anymore than a leash correction. And quite simply, I don't see her getting shocked too much more seeing as she already beginning to understand the concept. (I've been doing it at home with people she knows without the collar, and after a few verbal aversives she kept eye contact)
There are so many other areas of her life, that this will apply to other than competition in a positive way. Vet visits for that matter would no longer require muzzling the entire time for one.
But competition and not muzzling at the vet's are all things that aren't really that important. She can be muzzled. No, we do not have to compete. But if with training, we can do those things, why not?
So far, with one session, I do not see a changed dog. She neither acted differently with me or my trainer imediately after. And if I see any change in the trust and bond we share, you better believe the dreams of competing will be flushed down the toilet.
The facts are this. We all put our dogs in uncomfortable situations, in the hopes of desensitizing them so they become COMFORTABLE for them.
But there's always those first few group classes where your puppy is clearly uncomfortable. Do we stop going because of that? Heck no! We praise them and try our best to make them comfortable and hope that they'll GET USED TO IT.
What about the DA dog that goes to class and acts out aggressively? You work with it, train with it in the hopes that one day, it will be manageable. Whatever method you use, no matter. The fact that you do it safely and your goals is what I'm trying to make clear.
Silverpawz, the cheese idea is a good one, but that's already been exhausted with weiners and 10 dollar ZUke's treats! LOL
And PB gives her the runs! LOL. That's basically the method we've used over the past 9, 10 months. Constantly feeding her yummy treats while she quickly pats her. No change. As soon as the treats are gone the teeth come out.
So this has become quite long, but I hope I've made my goals and the reasons for those clear. ANd perhaps put my decision into perspective for some of you.
I know you all may not agree with the method, but IMO I trully have exhausted all other routes with her.
RD- I almost forgot, LOL, unfortunately, despite how quickly Hades is coming along he cannot compete. The ban in Ontario requires all pitbulls to be muzzled in public areas, and from my understanding they cannot compete.
) The only time he is in fear that he will get shocked is when we give him a command. He can the obey, knowing nothing will happen...or disobey, and get shocked.
