Obama or McCain?

[release the hounds]

That's your opinion as well. I dont see how her experience is any less important than a current Iraqi's - both are situations were tyrants were ruling the country, both are situations were they spent alot of time rebuilding. The Iraqi's seemed quite happy to tear down his statue and drag it through the streets - much like the Italians did to Mussolini.

Not so superficial I think....but again - you are quite entitled your opinion.

As far as Afghanistan goes - we're not having a whole lot of problems with Afghanistan so it's not on the news much - you might think that we're not doing a whole lot there because the media rarely reports on it...but frequently things arent as they seem when it comes to media portrails.

The fact that they're sending Guard units and green beret units in oddles speaks enough to me. But then again...thats just me.

~Cate

Yes the Italians did hang BM ( like the initials better, easier to spell and reminds me of taking a dump) and rid their country of him. They also were fundamentally a lot like Americans or any other European country. They weren't a ME country that has been fueding with "christians" for 2000 years. They also didn't have half the country so blinded by religion and hungry for power living in caves trying to destroy the infedels. Besides being ruled by a dictator (what do you get when you cross a penis and a potato?, yeah a dictator) if that's uncalled for i guess it can be edited, but anyway

besides being ruled by dictators the two situations are vastly different, i see no other commonalities.

 

[release the hounds]

They're following historical precedent . . .

[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1]Propaganda:[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica] noun
ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1] QUOTES: [/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1] Hermann Goering, Hitler's #2 Man had this to say about war[/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany.
That is understood. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]But it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along to fight a war, ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, and necessities, whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skillfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct."
-- Hitler[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."
-- Attorney General John Ashcroft answering critics of his anti-terrorism measures [/FONT][/FONT]


Voltaire summed it up well:

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]-- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)[/FONT]

:hail: That is all

 

[Renee750il]

Yes the Italians did hang BM ( like the initials better, easier to spell and reminds me of taking a dump) and rid their country of him. They also were fundamentally a lot like Americans or any other European country. They weren't a ME country that has been fueding with "christians" for 2000 years. They also didn't have half the country so blinded by religion and hungry for power living in caves trying to destroy the infedels. Besides being ruled by a dictator (what do you get when you cross a penis and a potato?, yeah a dictator) if that's uncalled for i guess it can be edited, but anyway

besides being ruled by dictators the two situations are vastly different, i see no other commonalities.

Exactly. Add into that equation the concept that the Iraqis are a nation made up of tribes and the tribal culture is still very much alive there, which gives them a vastly different cultural basis than ours.

So we go in and throw down a dictator that we set in place and then tell them to do things our way, that we know what's best for them . . .

 

[Amstaffer]

Wow. I just had to pop in and say Michael Moore is the biggest piece of SH*T I have ever had the displeasure of seeing anywhere. His movies are nothing but lies and propaganda. They are NOT documentaries. When you watch 9/11, in a lot of scenes there is a clock, especially the one with the man from the NRA. The clock jumps around erratically because he is editing EVERYTHING TO LOOK GOOD FOR HIS CAUSE. That is NOT a documentary. That is a piece of propaganda BULLSH*T.

Sorry. I hate the man. And it is really surprising to see that someone still believes his lies.

I recommend you check out the book "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Liar". I'm pretty sure that's the title anyway. If not, its close to it.

Your comments about Moore reminded me why I don't like Bush, Cheney and Rove. Lies, lies, propaganda and more misinformation. The difference is one is a movie maker and the others are/were the leaders of the free world.

The Oil company, the Drug companies, Military Industrial Complex and Insurance companies run this country.

Whoever said earlier that the next president has and rough job a head is right on. Our country is in debt financially, emotionally (split Red vs Blue), and our creditability is shot world wide.

 

[Amstaffer]

They're following historical precedent . . .

[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1]Propaganda:[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica] noun
ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1] QUOTES: [/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1] Hermann Goering, Hitler's #2 Man had this to say about war[/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany.
That is understood. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]But it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along to fight a war, ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, and necessities, whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skillfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct."
-- Hitler[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."
-- Attorney General John Ashcroft answering critics of his anti-terrorism measures [/FONT][/FONT]


Voltaire summed it up well:

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]-- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)[/FONT]

Excellent post!

 

[Puckstop31]

I don't see any light at the end of this particular tunnel that's not a train.

We need another American Revolution, but we're too lazy and too cowardly.

I was reading this and just waiting for the right thing to quote. Not very shocked it was Renee... LOL

THIS is the exact reason I am voting for McCain. He is the CLEAR winner when it comes to protecting the 2nd Amendment. I hate to be a pessimist, but this nation really is doomed, sooner or later. History is against us and we are far to divided. So, I will vote for the person who will protect my right to protect myself and my family. Sooner or later that Fascist Left will get into power and make me a criminal for owning an inanimate object that they fear and do not understand. That is when the 2nd American Revolution will begin. Bank on it.

Further, Obama is clearly a socialist of the Marxist vein. It is MY money and I know better than YOU as to how it needs spent. McCain pays lip service to keeping Srubs tax cuts in place. One of the very few good things he did.

The more we come to rely on government to "fix" our problems, the closer to the end we come. Thus, we are doomed as the nation we currently enjoy.

Sad.

 

[perla123]

And people who say they don't know Obama and that this is the reason why they're not gonna vote for him better start opening google and doing a little research. They also need to do some research on Mccain. A website that i recommend for all you Mccain supporters is Therealmccain.com . The reason i point to this website is because Mccain's track record is full of flip flops, and people need to see that.

 

[Puckstop31]

They're following historical precedent . . .

[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1]Propaganda:[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica] noun
ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1] QUOTES: [/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1] Hermann Goering, Hitler's #2 Man had this to say about war[/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany.
That is understood. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]But it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along to fight a war, ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, and necessities, whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skillfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct."
-- Hitler[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."
-- Attorney General John Ashcroft answering critics of his anti-terrorism measures [/FONT][/FONT]


Voltaire summed it up well:

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]-- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)[/FONT]

When I get home from Canada, I want to get back to my socialist = fascist thing. I can show that Nazi Germany was more like what OBAMA wants for us than Bush did.

Yep... You heard me right.

 

[Gamedogs]

Who do you want to be elected for Presidency?
I want Obama to win.

Anna

I've not read this thread but I thought you might want to see this, If you are thinking about voting for this man, you better watch this!!

http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036

 

[Amstaffer]

I've not read this thread but I thought you might want to see this, If you are thinking about voting for this man, you better watch this!!

http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036

Would anyone else like a second helping of fearmonger pasta?

Hussien is a very common Muslim name whoopi. McCain is an Irish name and the IRA perfected the Car Bomb thus with this logic if McCain is only running for President so he can attack our ally the UK...right?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

If that picture of Obama not covering is heart by the flag is real....why is everyone facing away from the flag?
http://hubpages.com/hub/Barack-Obama--Top-Ten-Myths

Check out this guy
Rev. John Hagee...McCain's religious buddy is sooo much better
Rev. Wright is a Wack job...not doubt but he will never have a job in the Whitehouse...Bush gave one to Rove!

Anybody want to go on a "Swift boat" ride?


I just about puked when they appear to compare Kennedy to Bush in the being of that video.

 

[Renee750il]

When I get home from Canada, I want to get back to my socialist = fascist thing. I can show that Nazi Germany was more like what OBAMA wants for us than Bush did.

Yep... You heard me right.

Thing is, Puck, those principles of effective propaganda can be used by ANY side with ANY agenda . . . and they are.

Propaganda - it's not just for fascists

 

[Whisper]

So because I'm politically liberal and have some socialist ideals I'm some sort of idiotic fascist? I love how open-minded we all are. I wondered how long it would take for this thread to go downhill. Not long apparently.

 

[Puckstop31]

Thing is, Puck, those principles of effective propaganda can be used by ANY side with ANY agenda . . . and they are.

Propaganda - it's not just for fascists

Oh for sure... Don't think I implied that it was. LOL

 

[Renee750il]

Just makin' sure it didn't get misunderstood, Puck

Gotta admit, though, that this batch of Neocons really has a supreme grasp of the principles as Goering expounded them.

 

[Puckstop31]

So because I'm politically liberal and have some socialist ideals I'm some sort of idiotic fascist? I love how open-minded we all are. I wondered how long it would take for this thread to go downhill. Not long apparently.

My my... Struck a nerve did I? How does what I say make this thread "head downhill"? Because I said something YOU disagree with?

So tell me, how should I behave? Would you make laws that require me to behave as you see fit?

And spare me your "open minded" drek. I am 34 years old and have made up my mind about how I want to live. Perhaps something might change me, but it will be my own mind that changes it and not some government decree.

I have said it many times... Fascism does not need to come on the heel of a jackboot. Modern Liberal Fascism is "nice", but it is Fascism none the less. I don't want to force my ideals on you, but I bet you would be for laws forcing me to change my life.

Would you? If not, then tell me how socialism does not FORCE people to live a certain way?

Again, as I have said many times... We can be "safe" or we can be FREE. I choose free. Our Constitution chose FREE before safe. Too bad it does not matter any more.

 

[Puckstop31]

Just makin' sure it didn't get misunderstood, Puck

Gotta admit, though, that this batch of Neocons really has a supreme grasp of the principles as Goering expounded them.

Again, FOR SURE. What modern politician dosen't?

LOL

I really can't get out to the ranch soon enough. I swear, I was born 3 centuries too late.

 

[Whisper]

It doesn't make me a fascist, because I have my own ideals that *I* follow that I don't *make* anyone else follow. I am a vegetarian, because that's what's right for *me*, but am I going to restrict meat from you? No, absolutely not. No matter who you vote for president, you are voting for changes for our country, for everyone. Some changes will only affect some people, some will affect everyone, whether you vote for McCain or Obama. McCain is my state senator. I think he's a prick, but you can like him all you want and I feel no need to try to change your mind about him.
No, this was my first post in this thread and I was referring to several posts, though I replied to only something you said, so I can see easily how you would think it was just you. Sorry about that.
Honestly, Puck, I see the world very differently than you seem to, but I respect you for sticking to your ideals. Even if I didn't like you, I don't say things for the sake of disagreeing with people. I guess it's not just this thread, there have been others where being "liberal" has been thrown around and equated to fascism.
I will not spare you, or anyone else, my "open-minded drek." I appreciate open-mindedness to different walks of life and ideas. Am I perfect in that respect? Not at all.
Anyway, I posted to the topic. I would like Obama to be president, and I can't wait for Shrub to be gone. Adios.

 

[Renee750il]

The term "liberal" has been debased and devalued by political agendas.

Don't forget, Thomas Jefferson was called a Liberal.

 

[Renee750il]

Again, FOR SURE. What modern politician dosen't?

LOL

I really can't get out to the ranch soon enough. I swear, I was born 3 centuries too late.

I figure if the time comes I can afford to be on the front lines . . . I've got no one I have to keep myself in one piece for.

And, for me, it's far better to die for something than to live for nothing.

 

[sparks19]

Well... I can't vote so my opinion doesn't even matter lol.

But I would vote for McCain if I could vote.