Wow, I love the American way of thinking, I thought that as Americans we should be bound together towards the same goal. It is a HUMAN thing for everyone to be healthy in this country. I'm not talking about some guy that eats cheeseburgers all his life and then has a heart attack "even though they would still be covered". I'm talking about the fact that everyone in the US should have access to healthcare. We are the richest country in the world, and people here with insurance are dying of cancer because their insurance company is denying them the treatment. That is not American at all. You mean to tell me it's fair that some young child born into poverty doesn't deserve to be healthy because their parents are to poor to afford it? Here, in the United states of America? How can a kid take responsability for themselves?
Obama or McCain?
- Thread starter aivzdog
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I was responding to PWCorgi on that first part...the part after that where I was discussing democrats being real democrats was responding to you.
We are going after Osama. Didnt you hear? But I was talking about Iraq specifically in that comment. Finding Osama has turned into a needle in a haystack...there's been some leads...but alot more caves.
lol - If I havent gone over alot of this already than I probably can't - I'm getting PO'd...and when I do that I say stupid things...soooo break time for me!
~Cate
OK - one more things - Americans are almost NEVER bound together on one way of thinking...did you miss this thread! No - we all think very differently and hold alot of different views because we can!
We are going after Osama. Didnt you hear? But I was talking about Iraq specifically in that comment. Finding Osama has turned into a needle in a haystack...there's been some leads...but alot more caves.
lol - If I havent gone over alot of this already than I probably can't - I'm getting PO'd...and when I do that I say stupid things...soooo break time for me!
~Cate
OK - one more things - Americans are almost NEVER bound together on one way of thinking...did you miss this thread! No - we all think very differently and hold alot of different views because we can!
This is a whole other topic, but cancer treatments on a whole are total crap. Big freakin deal that they find a woman at 35 with BC and treat her and she lives to 60 and dies from the treatment after years treatment and remission and return of cancer etc. In the past the woman wouldn't go into the Dr till she was in her 60's find out she has BC and die after a shorter time with treatment.
I really fail to see the progress, just because they catch it sooner doesn't mean any less people are dying or living to an absolute older age. BTW our biggest decrease from cancer came in the immediate years after they stopped using HRT on a wide scale in 2003. Double digit decreases because they stopped a human intervention. It should make you stop and wonder.
That arguement may make me sound cold and unfeeling which is not the case. I've been affected by cancer as much as the next person has, i know what it can do and what it is like. 2 days ago they released the transcripts from a big Cancer convention. 2 drugs were the story and lots of hoopla. 9,000 dollars a month for those drugs. for the possibility at MAYBE 4 more weeks of life on average. Sorry, laying in a bed dying for 4 more weeks isn't treatment, its torture and selfishness on the part of everyone.
and a young child born into poverty doesn't need a Dr. to make them healthy. Millions are healthy all on their own, because they do the things necessary to keep their health. Problem is we've all been so brainwashed into thinking we're weak little beings that need doctors to keep us healthy and drugs to survive, and insurance companies to pay for everything.
Well, considering the question was directed at individuals here on the forum and wasn't asking what your grandmother from Italy thought, I stand by my answer - and everyone else's varying answers.
Now . . . is it any wonder that the U.S. has little credibility on the world stage, considering WE were very instrumental in Saddam Hussein's rise to power? Here's a decent overview. http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/2003/0314history.htm
Now . . . is it any wonder that the U.S. has little credibility on the world stage, considering WE were very instrumental in Saddam Hussein's rise to power? Here's a decent overview. http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/2003/0314history.htm
If you're going to tell me that cancer treatment and intervention thanks to early detection in our present days, and cancer treatment in the past years is the same is bull. Second, the reason why it cost so much for these medication is because we let these drug companies charge whatever they want, and we let these insurance companies, to whom we pay, tell us wether or not they will pay for it. BTW, when they catch cancer sooner, it can prevent the cancer from reoccuring. Also, if you think it's ok for a mother or father of 35 who has a family to die at that age because you think it's "ok" is a **** insult to Human life and to medicine as a whole. BTW, it's not being "Brainwashed" when a young girl born into an inner city family, or any part of the country for that matter, and cannot get access to simple antibiotics and end up getting sick and die. And you think it's ok when the HMO that you pay for doesn't approve of the hospital that you got rushed to when you got into an accident, and instead of treating you there, they literally, put you in a cab, and send you to another hospital that's on you're approved list.
And if you want to talk about patriotic, think about this, the terrorist that are being detained at guantanomo bay get better healthcare, then the volunteer heroes of 9/11, who ended up with all sorts of breathing problems, and Post traumatic Stress disorders.
And if you want to talk about patriotic, think about this, the terrorist that are being detained at guantanomo bay get better healthcare, then the volunteer heroes of 9/11, who ended up with all sorts of breathing problems, and Post traumatic Stress disorders.
I was just giving you a point of view from someone who has actualy experienced America 'invading' her country rather than just speculating about it...I thought it would be slightly more useful. Weren't you the one who told me it was important to go out and talk to people who had actually experienced things?
This was your quote :
I just thought I would share as per your advice.
~Cate
This was your quote :
I just thought I would share as per your advice.
~Cate
Wow. I just had to pop in and say Michael Moore is the biggest piece of SH*T I have ever had the displeasure of seeing anywhere. His movies are nothing but lies and propaganda. They are NOT documentaries. When you watch 9/11, in a lot of scenes there is a clock, especially the one with the man from the NRA. The clock jumps around erratically because he is editing EVERYTHING TO LOOK GOOD FOR HIS CAUSE. That is NOT a documentary. That is a piece of propaganda BULLSH*T.
Sorry. I hate the man. And it is really surprising to see that someone still believes his lies.
I recommend you check out the book "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Liar". I'm pretty sure that's the title anyway. If not, its close to it.
Sorry. I hate the man. And it is really surprising to see that someone still believes his lies.
I recommend you check out the book "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Liar". I'm pretty sure that's the title anyway. If not, its close to it.
yeah, I saw Sicko, there are some good points in that movie and a lot of propaganda, much like we were fed by the bush regime in the march to war.
2nd I never said it was ok for a 35 year old woman to die from breast cancer. I said cancer treatments on a whole are crap. They are, convince me otherwise. The biggest drop in cancer rates came after we stopped HRT and the next biggest drop is attributed to reduced smoking rates.
and I said what's the difference if they find cancer at 35 and after years of treatment and relapse and treatment and relapse they die from either treatment or cancer in their 60's or if they wait till they have symptoms of BC in their 60's, go to the dr and die after a shorter treatment time?
I'm all for fighting for life, i'm also not blind enough to miss the fact that most cancer treatments are nothing but emotional because they have to do something and money makers.
If they catch cancer sooner, yeah there's a good chance people survive. If they screened everyone they'd find a hell of a lot of cancer and lots of us would survive with nothing. Cancers form everyday in everybody, and are destroyed by our immune systems. Check out Dr. Michael Williams from Northwestern Medical School and what he has to say about cancers. If they find it early there's a good chance your body can still fight it off and survive. The Medical treatments are a sham and we're lucky they don't kill more of us sooner.
an inner city kid doesn't need antiboitics to be healthy any more than I do, I saw the mother on sicko, it was a sad story. I'm not saying our HC system isn't broken, but universal HC isn't going to fix it either, our attitudes need to change, the publics, the dr's and the insurance companies. ANd get pharma and the lobbyists out of washington.
2nd I never said it was ok for a 35 year old woman to die from breast cancer. I said cancer treatments on a whole are crap. They are, convince me otherwise. The biggest drop in cancer rates came after we stopped HRT and the next biggest drop is attributed to reduced smoking rates.
and I said what's the difference if they find cancer at 35 and after years of treatment and relapse and treatment and relapse they die from either treatment or cancer in their 60's or if they wait till they have symptoms of BC in their 60's, go to the dr and die after a shorter treatment time?
I'm all for fighting for life, i'm also not blind enough to miss the fact that most cancer treatments are nothing but emotional because they have to do something and money makers.
If they catch cancer sooner, yeah there's a good chance people survive. If they screened everyone they'd find a hell of a lot of cancer and lots of us would survive with nothing. Cancers form everyday in everybody, and are destroyed by our immune systems. Check out Dr. Michael Williams from Northwestern Medical School and what he has to say about cancers. If they find it early there's a good chance your body can still fight it off and survive. The Medical treatments are a sham and we're lucky they don't kill more of us sooner.
an inner city kid doesn't need antiboitics to be healthy any more than I do, I saw the mother on sicko, it was a sad story. I'm not saying our HC system isn't broken, but universal HC isn't going to fix it either, our attitudes need to change, the publics, the dr's and the insurance companies. ANd get pharma and the lobbyists out of washington.
You're entitled to your grandmother's opinion.
As I haven't talked to her, I can't state an opinion for her, nor would I try to make two such vastly different historical situations representational of each other. Are there superficial similarities? Sure. But only superficial.
But then, we've become a society that only thinks superficially.
As I haven't talked to her, I can't state an opinion for her, nor would I try to make two such vastly different historical situations representational of each other. Are there superficial similarities? Sure. But only superficial.
But then, we've become a society that only thinks superficially.
That's your opinion as well. I dont see how her experience is any less important than a current Iraqi's - both are situations were tyrants were ruling the country, both are situations were they spent alot of time rebuilding. The Iraqi's seemed quite happy to tear down his statue and drag it through the streets - much like the Italians did to Mussolini.
Not so superficial I think....but again - you are quite entitled your opinion.
As far as Afghanistan goes - we're not having a whole lot of problems with Afghanistan so it's not on the news much - you might think that we're not doing a whole lot there because the media rarely reports on it...but frequently things arent as they seem when it comes to media portrails.
The fact that they're sending Guard units and green beret units in oddles speaks enough to me. But then again...thats just me.
~Cate
Not so superficial I think....but again - you are quite entitled your opinion.
As far as Afghanistan goes - we're not having a whole lot of problems with Afghanistan so it's not on the news much - you might think that we're not doing a whole lot there because the media rarely reports on it...but frequently things arent as they seem when it comes to media portrails.
The fact that they're sending Guard units and green beret units in oddles speaks enough to me. But then again...thats just me.
~Cate
I just hope whoever is in office next stops all the lying and fearmongering. Sometimes I think the government is like a parent that doesn't think we can handle the truth so they try to scare us with some "boogey-man" in an attempt to distract us.
"Bobby don't cross your eyes or they will stay that way."
"Don't vote for XXXX or XXXX will happen."
Stop all that BS, just tell us what You will do and why you will do it! That is what I wish all politicians could hear loud and clear.
"Bobby don't cross your eyes or they will stay that way."
"Don't vote for XXXX or XXXX will happen."
Stop all that BS, just tell us what You will do and why you will do it! That is what I wish all politicians could hear loud and clear.
The number of troops that we have in Afghanistan and the number of troops that we have in Iraq is a huge difference. Second, whether you hate Michael Moore or not is not the point, the point is that his movies are DOCUMENTARIES and that the people on these movies said what they said out of their own mouths, and that the stories of these people weren't fake. You go tell the volunteer of 9/11 that her story is bullshit and that she did receive care after she volunteered, or you tell me that the Bush family isn't in bed with the Saudis.
anybody ever watch "V" for Vendetta, its so true, when you don't fear, you are truly free. Free to act, Free to think, Free live and i'm not talking the fear of getting hit by a car if you don't look to see if one is coming. I'm talking the paranoia type fear that keeps you indoors all day because you're afraid of the cars.
They're following historical precedent . . .
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1]Propaganda:[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica] noun
ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1] QUOTES: [/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1] Hermann Goering, Hitler's #2 Man had this to say about war[/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany.
That is understood. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]But it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along to fight a war, ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, and necessities, whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skillfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct."
-- Hitler[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."
-- Attorney General John Ashcroft answering critics of his anti-terrorism measures [/FONT][/FONT]
Voltaire summed it up well:
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]-- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1]Propaganda:[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica] noun
ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][SIZE=+1] QUOTES: [/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica][SIZE=+1] Hermann Goering, Hitler's #2 Man had this to say about war[/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]
That is understood. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]But it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along to fight a war, ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, and necessities, whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skillfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct."
-- Hitler[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica][FONT=Trebuchet MS,arial,helvetica]"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty; my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists - for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil."
-- Attorney General John Ashcroft answering critics of his anti-terrorism measures [/FONT][/FONT]
Voltaire summed it up well:
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."[FONT=trebuchet ms,helvetica]-- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)[/FONT]