Let's Talk About Owner Responsibility

[iheartsammy]

I'm sure everyone (well most everyone) on this board understands that their dogs are 100% there responsability at all times, but belittleing someone from a mistake isn't going to solve anything..

I mean we've all messed up more then once, and if we refused to accept that we screwed up & don't do anything to make it better then you can freak out. But when they mess up and then fix the problem and understand what the did wrong and fix it, there is no longer a reason to belittle them...

(EDIT: IMO there is no reason to ridacule anyone for anything unless there being a complete @$$hole and refuse to fix the problem...)

 

[RetrieverLove]

This thread is rather upsetting to me and I hope that the OP about her dogs nails will not be offended. Accidents happen, sure it was the owners "fault" however, I don't think that's for a bunch of people on a forum to judge. People come here for advice, and support. I was really shocked to see people hammering her.

 

[iheartsammy]

i don't think this thread should have even been made, it's only perpose (sp?) was to carry out an old argument that got locked... it got locked for a reason...

 

[sparks19]

This thread is rather upsetting to me and I hope that the OP about her dogs nails will not be offended. Accidents happen, sure it was the owners "fault" however, I don't think that's for a bunch of people on a forum to judge. People come here for advice, and support. I was really shocked to see people hammering her.

It was upsetting. I see a lot of it on the board though. Self professed experts. I haven't met an expert that taught by bullying and belittling. They say that we should teach our dogs with positive reinforcment. Well I think the same applies to people. No one is going to listen to your advice if you are spouting off about how stupid they are. you catch more flies with honey than with Vinegar. People have so much knowledge to offer on this board but have NO idea how to offer their knowledge to human beings.

 

[iheartsammy]

It was upsetting. I see a lot of it on the board though. Self professed experts. I haven't met an expert that taught by bullying and belittling. They say that we should teach our dogs with positive reinforcment. Well I think the same applies to people. No one is going to listen to your advice if you are spouting off about how stupid they are. you catch more flies with honey than with Vinegar. People have so much knowledge to offer on this board but have NO idea how to offer their knowledge to human beings.

i find it pretty sad..

 

[DanL]

See, the only bullying and belittling I saw on the other thread was NOT towards the original poster. She was given advice and sympathy, and that was that. The person being belittled was making some good points that the emotional people couldn't see past. Asking for sympathy, and then calling for the blood of the neighbor who may or may not have had anything to do with the dog's injury was wrong, but when those points were brought up, with quotes from the participating people, they were ignored and then those same people slammed the person again.

I made this post not to continue that thread, but to rationally discuss the point of responsibility with our dogs. Many times when a thread gets off topic some wise soul will suggest that a new thread be started with the off topic subject. This is what I did here.

My opinion is that we are 100% responsible at all times. If people agree or disagree, lets talk about it and talk about why you believe what you do.

 

[Renee750il]

Maybe first and foremost we need to remember that we are 100% responsible for what we say . . .

 

[Bobsk8]

IMO, personally with me, I would blame myself in EVERY one of those circumstances.

It's like a child. It does not understand and is not respsonsible for it's actions. I AM.

If a friend is over, and when they leave Roxy darts out and gets hit by a car. MY FAULT. I should've either trained her to not do that, or known that she would've and been prepared. Even if I had told that friend to watch for her, it is still my fault and my responsibility.

The only people I will leave my dogs in the hands of, is Brent or my parents. If I leave my dog with anyone else and something happened, it is MY FAULT. *I* decided to trust those people therefore if something happens *I* was wrong to place my trust in them.

I think there is a second way of looking at the "accident" that happened. Lets say your friend comes over and as he leaves he doesn't fasten the gate. You look out and see your dog run out into the road. ( your mistake or your friends mistake) At that moment a car comes down the road, and and the driver deliberately swerves so that he will hit your dog, and then he continues down the road without stopping. What would be your reaction, to say.. "Oh, I made a mistake in not keeping my dog under control period so it's all my fault"....? I don't think so....... You would be mad as heck at the driver of the car that hit your dog on purpose with their car. This clipping of the nails, sounds like the same type of "accident", which doesn't seem to be an accident at all. I would tend to agree with the vet's opinion since the vet actually evaluated the injury rather than reading about it on some Dog Forum. Accidentally injurying the nails is almost certainly not going to produce cuts that are straight across in my opinion. Wire cutters or clippers will, however.

None of us really knows for sure what went on, but that fact that one person on this forum starts hyperventilating and goes on and on and on for post after post , trying to prove his point by acting like the OP doesn't have a right to post her feelings, is way over the top in my opinion.

 

[sparks19]

Maybe first and foremost we need to remember that we are 100% responsible for what we say . . .

Not all people are What about Tourettes Syndrome lol I think my step dad has that

 

[MomOf7]

I agree with you DanL...Although there are some times grey areas nothing is completely black and white.
Sometimes things happen even IF we take precautions. Cannot be perfect all the time

 

[MomOf7]

Maybe first and foremost we need to remember that we are 100% responsible for what we say . . .

Thank you! Often times what is typed isnt always displayed or read the same as what it was meant. Ask specific questions without prejudice and you might get the answers to the questions you are not sure of. Dont just assume

 

[Roxy's CD]

I think there is a second way of looking at the "accident" that happened. Lets say your friend comes over and as he leaves he doesn't fasten the gate. You look out and see your dog run out into the road. ( your mistake or your friends mistake) At that moment a car comes down the road, and and the driver deliberately swerves so that he will hit your dog, and then he continues down the road without stopping. What would be your reaction, to say.. "Oh, I made a mistake in not keeping my dog under control period so it's all my fault"....? I don't think so....... You would be mad as heck at the driver of the car that hit your dog on purpose with their car. This clipping of the nails, sounds like the same type of "accident", which doesn't seem to be an accident at all. I would tend to agree with the vet's opinion since the vet actually evaluated the injury rather than reading about it on some Dog Forum. Accidentally injurying the nails is almost certainly not going to produce cuts that are straight across in my opinion. Wire cutters or clippers will, however.

None of us really knows for sure what went on, but that fact that one person on this forum starts hyperventilating and goes on and on and on for post after post , trying to prove his point by acting like the OP doesn't have a right to post her feelings, is way over the top in my opinion.

My respsonse was in NO WAY related to that other thread. At all.

But let's say that did happen. Yes I would be angry at the other driver, of course if they PURPOSELY hit my dog. But I can honestly and truthfully say that I wouldn't BLAME them. Yes it would anger me that they were so cruel to purposely hit my dog, but it's MY FAULT that I wasn't responsible and did not make sure that the gate was fastened. (I never leave my dogs outside unattended anyways)

 

[MyIrishWolfie]

DanL.. your post was really long, and it was hard for me to understand all of it.. so I'll try my best to respond correctly.

Accidents happen... yes.. but to prevent them I think its wise to always know where your dog is, and to always watch your dog. In the hypothetical examples you gave, it sounded like your GSD was running loose, and you weren't watching him. so therefore he got himself into trouble. I think thats an irresponsible owner.

Guess the bottom line is to always watch your dog, and know where he/she is when out in the front yard with you.

 

[bonster]

Whilst responsible as an owner, you can only do what you can do - but especially at home I think that making sure your dog can't wander off and get into trouble is pretty key (including making sure visitors do close gates and such), and home being a place you usually feel comfortable its important to pay attention.
Last year someone here had their dog (they were walking him, off-leash) caught in an illegal trap left by hunters in an open public space close to a pathway, in a place regarded as a pretty suitable area for dogs to exercise (we don't have dog parks here). Luckily it recovered. Thank kind of thing is much more difficult to govern against - short of wrapping your dog in cotton wool - its thankfully extremely unusual, but a risk none the less, and one for owners like me - now aware (it was publicised in the paper) - to manage.

 

[Roxy's CD]

Last year someone here had their dog (they were walking him, off-leash) caught in an illegal trap left by hunters in an open public space close to a pathway, in a place regarded as a pretty suitable area for dogs to exercise

Now that would not be an owners fault. I hope whoever owned the trap payed for vet bills and got some kind of fine for illegal use or trespassing or something.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Yes, we are responsible for every action of our pets! Whether it be something good or bad...we are responsible.

 

[Renee750il]

Anyone ever stop and think that most of the time assigning blame is a pointless and fruitless exercise? You do your best, try not to make mistakes, learn from the ones you do make, and remember that sometimes an accident is just an accident.

The times that it is important to find out who is responsible are when incidents take place that can be rectified or that might be a pattern of behaviour and need to be stopped.

At the end of the day - or thread - aren't we all on the same side . . . our dogs'?

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Anyone ever stop and think that most of the time assigning blame is a pointless and fruitless exercise? You do your best, try not to make mistakes, learn from the ones you do make, and remember that sometimes an accident is just an accident.

The times that it is important to find out who is responsible are when incidents take place that can be rectified or that might be a pattern of behaviour and need to be stopped.

At the end of the day - or thread - aren't we all on the same side . . . our dogs'?

Yes. ^

We learn from mistakes and hope that nothing truly horrible ever happens. We blame ourselves for things that happen but it doesn't get us anywhere, except for maybe down, when the guilt becomes too much.

 

[Dani]

Mistakes happen. If you acknowledge that you have done wrong and make sure the same thing doesn't happen again, nothing else can be asked of you.

It's never right to attack someone, whether it be that the person's dog escaped and got hurt, or hurt someone, or got pregnant. It's not a difficult concept... people learn more if they are not harassed and backed into a corner. Give advice, but don't be insulting while doing so.

'Tis lame to play the blame game

 

[elegy]

i hold an extremely strong sense of responsibility toward keeping my dogs safe and under control at all times. i know part of that comes from owning pit bulls and knowing if something happens i could lose everything, them included, whether it's their "fault" or not. letting my dogs out to roam in an unfenced area is absolutely unthinkable to me. period. and if something would happen to them because they were out roaming, i'd consider myself first and foremost to blame.

my dogs never go outside unattended. ever. i have a 6 foot high privacy fence. my yard is like a freaking fortress. and yet they don't go out unsupervised.

at my parents' house they're never out unsupervised, and yet luce has escaped several times (she's a fence breaker like nobody's business). she's never gotten into trouble, but if she had been hit by a car, been shot by somebody, whatever it would have been MY FAULT.

if somebody else left the gate open, it would have been, ultimately, my fault for not making sure it was shut. my dad has at times let my dogs run out the front door because he just doesn't know any better. again, my fault for not training them not to do that.

if you own them, they're your responsibility. no excuses.

and the law would generally agree with me.