Let's Talk About Owner Responsibility

[GSDlover_4ever]

The point isnt that total responsibility is unattainable... thats obvious to anyone who bothers to think about it. The point is how absurd it is to come here to share with like-minded people and face the firing squad when the person already feels guilty, and wretched... And the negative reinforcement we all complain about when people use it on their dogs, but then turn around and use on eachother with impunity.

I agree with you. My only point is why do some people catch a break but with an "oops litter" its the end of the world and these people get cussed out to the point where they just leave. I just stay out of the breeding forum now because those replies are just disgusting.

 

[DemitriousK]

The symptoms are indicative of the forum wide problem of intollerance. Welcome to the wonderful world of segregation, but instead of being (insert skin color, gender, or nationality here) it's the BYB's or its the people whos dog gets out, or its the people who dont know any better.

The root of all hatred is the believe that ones self is in the "right" simply because one is ones self. And there are a lot of people around here who seem to hold the view that "I'm right because I said I am." Which of course has the subscript of "which means you're wrong."

Lets face it... there is a group of elitest hatemongers hanging around. Its rather like a canine KKK. Someone makes the wrong mistake, and we have a bunch of guys on horseback running around screaming "lets skin the filthy >explicative< and burn them alive, that'll teach them!"

And the absolute worst part of it is that these people, being (lets call it "hazed" because "assaulted" would be too close to real life and hit a little too close to home.) hazed are the people coming here to ASK for HELP. But they have to sift through all the hate-mongered replies to get any help.

Which is why I dont post here that often. I only come here to read when I have nothing else to do, or just cant sleep... I got tired of seeing people asking for help, and then publicly (and brutally) punished for the "crime" of not knowing better.

If not being perfect is acceptable, then I sure cant tell that by reading these forums. As far as I can tell by reading here ther is a huge gap inbetween people: You're iether careless/thoughless/mean/stupid/unworthy or you're perfect because you never do anything wrong (and never have, of course!) The people I *DO* like to read on here are the few that fall in the middle...

You see for the return on investment on my time someone willing to try is more valuable than someone who isnt. And someone willing to forgive, likewise, is more valuable than someone who is not. And the least of all traits - which will surely cause me to leave - is that special blend of ignorance mixed with self righteousness that we find all to often screaming on the other end of a desperate plea for help.

 

[rhinecat]

That's a great solution, DemetriousK. We'll just hand out pats on the back for actions which get peoples' dogs maimed, killed, or otherwise hurt. It'll work swimmingly, I'm sure.

For the record, I have, in fact, made mistakes. That doesn't make me any less RESPONSIBLE, because I recognize that I, and only I, am at fault for making those mistakes. Responsible does not mean omniscient (because I assume that's what you were trying to spell with "omnescent"); it means willing to assume responsibility for all aspects of your dog's care that are within your control. When things go wrong with those, you accept that they were your responsibility and do not assign blame to someone else. If it makes me a "hatemonger" because I expect other dog owners to hold to the same standard, then I'll willingly accept the label.

 

[Saje]

I'm not saying it's right but there is a huge difference between what happens there and racism. BYBers, puppy mills and some of the other people who get flamed hurt living creatures. Some people feel passionate about that and don't express themselves well. To compare them to the KKK is just off the wall? No race hurt other races. People hurt other people but not entire races. At least the people here are trying to help innocent dogs. Could it be done in better ways? Absolutely, but to call them elitist hatemongers isn't right. They are just trying to help dogs.

 

[Renee750il]

Which is why I dont post here that often. I only come here to read when I have nothing else to do, or just cant sleep... I got tired of seeing people asking for help, and then publicly (and brutally) punished for the "crime" of not knowing better.

Demetrious, if you'd spend more time here you would see that the posters who are only attacking are the minority - just as they are in real life. And, just as it happens in real life, they tend to "pack up." They tend to disperse - voluntarily or not - when confronted about their narrow focus and woeful lack of compassion.

Now, someone who IS running a puppy mill . . . well, it's hard to find any way to excuse that. Those who have accidental litters or are - unthinkingly - BYBing are an entirely different matter and it should always be remembered that no one can or will learn anything if you just berate them. Teach, don't preach.

 

[sparks19]

I don't see many people who come here to brag about their puppymills. I see people who come here because they made a mistake and now they need help to do the best they can in the situation. I find it sad when someone comes here because they were "not fully informed on dog ettiquette" and now their dog is pregnant and they want to know the best ways to take care of her and all they get is "why isn't she spayed" "why would you let her out of your sight" "How could you be so stupid" WELL I can see how THAT helps the mother.

This is an internet forum. It is not your place to judge people you have never met. I thought you were here to help teach people who didn't k now any better. I don't think giving constructive advice is patting someone on the back. So they screwed up and it p!sses you off, so tell me, who exactly does that help?

Does it help the dog that is already pregnant? NO Does it help the OP who needs help taking care of her already pregnant dog? NO it does not. Does it make you feel big to beat someone down? Only the people who participate in such activities can answer that.

I think coming to a forum for help is admitting that you might have screwed up.

I will give someone the benefit of the doubt. After hearing the facts, if they are still determined to produce litters then the gloves come off. That is completely different. But to be attacked because you need help is terrible.

and rhinecat, stooping to pointing out spelling mistakes? lets keep this mature and civil

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Demetrious, if you'd spend more time here you would see that the posters who are only attacking are the minority - just as they are in real life. And, just as it happens in real life, they tend to "pack up." They tend to disperse - voluntarily or not - when confronted about their narrow focus and woeful lack of compassion.

Now, someone who IS running a puppy mill . . . well, it's hard to find any way to excuse that. Those who have accidental litters or are - unthinkingly - BYBing are an entirely different matter and it should always be remembered that no one can or will learn anything if you just berate them. Teach, don't preach.

I'm not trying to start an arguement p ), but.... how come so many threads get closed then? Why do people run, not walk, away from Chaz after a verbal beating of how stupid and ignorant they are?

It's sad, really. There are sooo many good, honest, respectable people here on Chaz that can teach members a lot of things, but they let passion get in the way. They feel so "right" but yet can't find a reasonable approach to help teach others "right."

I am guilty of jumping on the band wagon myself, but have since taught myself to leave thread before they get hateful, to hope that the OP has even strength to ignore those who are so self-righteous, but we lose a lot of members.

Now, BYB's, puppy mill runners, there are no excuses for them. What they do is awful and hateful to those like chaz members that love animals so much. But bashing doens't do anything but get our adreneline rushing.. it doesn't teach a lesson, we fall down to their level and they beat us.

I stay because I like Chaz so much and I learn new things everyday and I have found myself able to weed out the self-righteous, butnot everyone can. It's too bad everyone couldn't communicate better-more peacefully.

 

[rhinecat]

and rhinecat, stooping to pointing out spelling mistakes? lets keep this mature and civil

...Why would it be unreasonable to point out that this slight on responsible pet owners is misspelled? It detracts from any validity the argument might have had.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

...Why would it be unreasonable to point out that this slight on responsible pet owners is misspelled? It detracts from any validity the argument might have had.

ROFL... you're a classic.

 

[jess2416]

Just Kidding Thought you could use a laugh

 

[tessa_s212]

You know, Demitrious has already said all I've wanted to say. But, I do have one thing to add on to.

I once was a person that thought it was rude and down right stupid to be intolerant. I thought tolerance was a WONDERFUL thing. And then I started reading, and talking to people.. and thinking. Intolerance isn't a bad thing. Not at all. It is only through our intolerances that we can make a bold stand against something, and work to improve whatever is at fault. BUT(and this is a big but because this is where so many fall short) you have to be kind in your words.

Proverbs 15 says that "A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs anger." In other words, a kind and gentle answer is better than an unkind one, for an unkind answer will only cause more anger. What I hope to get across to you with quoting this proverb is that although I think it is not unwise to practice intolerances, and certainly not a bad thing to take actions to change things for the better, be kind in doing so. Too often people are turned off, and then refuse to listen to what people are saying because the words they are hearing comes from anger, and not kindness or love. To have passion is all good and fine, but perhaps some compassion wouldn't hurt either, eh?

 

[Buddy'sParents]

*clapclapclap*

Well said, Tessa, well said.

 

[DemitriousK]

I havent called anybody specific a hatemonger, I have equated tendencies towards certain types of blanket practices in one incorrect line of thinking to those found in many of the closed threads here on chaz.

And my spelling is what it is... unfortunately... one can ignore me, or dicipher me, but asking me to spell properly is an excercise in futility.

I'm not sure I'm terribly far off the mark here, though. When someone approaches a situation with all of their judgements preconceived, and no allowance for the situation, people (or animals involved)... thats close enough for me. And hanging people out to dry, verbally, the way I've seen plenty of times here... well we sure didnt actually physically hurt anybody... that cant possibly be equatable... can it?! Well the blanket term abuse carries with it emotional, verbal, and physical connotations. Do all 3 have to be in play to call someone on it?

In my way of thinking, dashing into a situation. Throwing your preconceived ideas around as gospel, and abusing those who you percieve as less than yourself... oh so its mentally less than yourself here - does that matter? That isnt bigotry?

Running puppy mills is an entirely different matter. when you consider living animals as "inventory" we're on a whole different page. It's not possible to apply this concept of "responsibility" in that context. You couldnt apply it to the ringleaders in the slave trade iether, could you?

And as for the proverbial pat on the back for doing something bad, I think you've missed something. Since when does positive reinforcement mean rewarding something bad? I think you've come out of context, and are simply angry with me here (which is fine. being angry at me is perfectly within your rights.) However how many people who preach positive reinforcement, that you've met, also preach beating for a wrong deed? I'm willing to bet that the number of people who hold both of those opposed views is a fairly small slice of the population. You're a lover, or you're a hater. Take it or leave it

I can understand peoples feathers getting ruffled by the things I've said. We're ok with being jerks... but to think that in this day and age we're capable of something as terrible as predjudice?! thats just not politically correct now is it?

I'd be interested to know how many people can, after thinking on it for a good long while in an objective manner, can honestly say that they dont have any preedjudices? An honest person would probably admit to some... And I bet (us all being dog people) a good number of our predjudices revolve around dogs. Call me out of line for stating things as I see them, but saying that a number of the drive by lynchings that happen around here is NOT sparked by predjudice is far more of a stretch than you choose to believe.

 

[sparks19]

...Why would it be unreasonable to point out that this slight on responsible pet owners is misspelled? It detracts from any validity the argument might have had.

Pointing out something as petty as a spelling error only makes YOUR argument less credible. if you cannot debate with the facts instead of stooping to the level of making fun of spelling errors then I suggest you bow out as you are only hurting yourself with this type of argument.


Demitrious, I think you have hit the nail right on the head.

It seems that knowledge means you are better than someone around here (with some people). It's great to have knowledge or be an "expert" in some field or another but if you cannot relate that to people and practice common courtesy then you might as well not have the knowledge at all. Whats the point in being knowledgable if you can't use that knowledge to teach others. you don't teach by berating.

 

[Saje]

Not all bigotry is equal and I still don't agree with the comparison of what happens here to the KKK. You have to see the bigger picture and realize that the majority of people on this forum are not how you see them. Miserable people are always louder than everyone else.

 

[sparks19]

Not all bigotry is equal and I still don't agree with the comparison of what happens here to the KKK. You have to see the bigger picture and realize that the majority of people on this forum are not how you see them. Miserable people are always louder than everyone else.

Not always


I am not miserable but I bet I am louder than most LOL

J/k I know what you meant

 

[Renee750il]

I'm not trying to start an arguement ( ), but.... how come so many threads get closed then? Why do people run, not walk, away from Chaz after a verbal beating of how stupid and ignorant they are?

Oh, I was referring to the fact that it is a minority of the members here who cause that sort of thing to happen - not that it rarely happens. It happens far too often, but there's a tightrope to walk between turning Chaz into the kind of forum where the dialogue is constrained and, frankly, fake and boring, and having it turn into Fight Club . . . We mods just try to keep walking that tightrope, and every now and then we miss a step and fall. We regret it when that happens, but there's always another troll or another drama or another fire to put out somewhere, so we have to move on.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Oh, I was referring to the fact that it is a minority of the members here who cause that sort of thing to happen - not that it rarely happens. It happens far too often, but there's a tightrope to walk between turning Chaz into the kind of forum where the dialogue is constrained and, frankly, fake and boring, and having it turn into Fight Club . . . We mods just try to keep walking that tightrope, and every now and then we miss a step and fall. We regret it when that happens, but there's always another troll or another drama or another fire to put out somewhere, so we have to move on.

Ahh, I getcha now. Thank you for the clarification, Renee.

 

[Buddy'sParents]

Not all bigotry is equal and I still don't agree with the comparison of what happens here to the KKK. You have to see the bigger picture and realize that the majority of people on this forum are not how you see them. Miserable people are always louder than everyone else.

The majority of people may NOT be, but enough are and well, they are a part of the bigger picture too.

 

[rhinecat]

Pointing out something as petty as a spelling error only makes YOUR argument less credible. if you cannot debate with the facts instead of stooping to the level of making fun of spelling errors then I suggest you bow out as you are only hurting yourself with this type of argument.

Show me where I "made fun" of any spelling errors. I pointed it out to make sure I was correct in my assumption that he meant "omniscient" rather than some other word.