We bought each of our pure bred dogs because those were the dogs we wanted. Each dog has it's own traits that are bred into the breed and those traits can't always be identified in a shelter dog. Even with rescue dogs, you don't always know what you are getting, and there is a reason they went to rescue in the 1st place. I'm sure there are fabulous dogs in rescues but we didn't want to chance that.
I hope I don't offend anyone with this...
- Thread starter Scooter
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I bought a purebred dog. By doing so, I do not feel I displaced a shelter dog out of having a home. Why? Because I did not want a shelter dog this time around. Using the "Every time you by a dog, a shelter dog loses a home" theory is about as rational as saying every time a human has their own baby, a kid in an orphanage loses a home. I don't need a guilt trip for my decision, when it was EXTREMELY well thought out.
I have done my part to help homeless great danes, and still do. I have never contributed to the pet overpopulation - I spay and neuter my pets, with the exception of Hannah and that is because she will be shown. However, she is and indoor dog, only outside WITH me, so the chance of an accidental pregnancy is zilch.
Someone else said it best in a prior post - I chose to buy from a reputable breeder this time around because I was tired of being heartbroken and I wanted to reduce my odds of having a sick or poorly bred dog. My first and second danes were from a BYB (Same breeder). They both taught me so very much - about bad breeders, about heartbreak, and oddly enough, about rescue (I took in one of their siblings that was purchased as an impulse buy and then at 6 months...no one wanted him anymore). The rest of my danes have been rescued. Out of Hootch, Shelby, Mugsie, Dozer, Bailey, Abby and Jaeger....I had ONE dane live past 5 years. ONE. So, this time around, I wanted to purchase a dog from lines I can trace, health testing I can verify and trace back for generations, and I wanted a breeder I could turn to if I need to. I also wanted to dabble in the areas of showing and so it was necessary for me to purchase a well bred dog.
When I move later this summer, I will begin fostering danes again to continue to do what I can to help them. Just because I purchased a dog does not make me irresponsible nor uncaring to the plight of homeless animals.
I have done my part to help homeless great danes, and still do. I have never contributed to the pet overpopulation - I spay and neuter my pets, with the exception of Hannah and that is because she will be shown. However, she is and indoor dog, only outside WITH me, so the chance of an accidental pregnancy is zilch.
Someone else said it best in a prior post - I chose to buy from a reputable breeder this time around because I was tired of being heartbroken and I wanted to reduce my odds of having a sick or poorly bred dog. My first and second danes were from a BYB (Same breeder). They both taught me so very much - about bad breeders, about heartbreak, and oddly enough, about rescue (I took in one of their siblings that was purchased as an impulse buy and then at 6 months...no one wanted him anymore). The rest of my danes have been rescued. Out of Hootch, Shelby, Mugsie, Dozer, Bailey, Abby and Jaeger....I had ONE dane live past 5 years. ONE. So, this time around, I wanted to purchase a dog from lines I can trace, health testing I can verify and trace back for generations, and I wanted a breeder I could turn to if I need to. I also wanted to dabble in the areas of showing and so it was necessary for me to purchase a well bred dog.
When I move later this summer, I will begin fostering danes again to continue to do what I can to help them. Just because I purchased a dog does not make me irresponsible nor uncaring to the plight of homeless animals.
Becoming jaded it is very hard to do rescue and to hold these souls as they are put to sleep and not wonder what we can say or do to stop or at least reduce this.
Been there and I have also offended people before i became a breeder about the same topic.
You lash out hell just watching Animal Planet police stories my hubby wont come to BED because I lash out, I curse, I cry I swing I punch the bed.
So I dont get as heated as I used when strangers post this topic.
It is venting that is all and if more people vented for the dogs a bit of good attention will go there way.
We will always need purebred dogs for function and for some as pets that carry traits some pet owners simply need in a purebred.
However due to the cow being out of the GATE for a long time in regards to puppymills laws lack there of.
We will always have a endless supply of unwanted mutts.
Best all of us can do is take care of our little courner be it as a breeder of rescue or pet who does foster.
All make a difference and it is the only way NOT to go insane thinking of all the sadness in the pet world.
When I get that upset online I just go hug a dog and sometimes cry.
No such thing as caring too much.
Oh well my 2 cents
Been there and I have also offended people before i became a breeder about the same topic.
You lash out hell just watching Animal Planet police stories my hubby wont come to BED because I lash out, I curse, I cry I swing I punch the bed.
So I dont get as heated as I used when strangers post this topic.
It is venting that is all and if more people vented for the dogs a bit of good attention will go there way.
We will always need purebred dogs for function and for some as pets that carry traits some pet owners simply need in a purebred.
However due to the cow being out of the GATE for a long time in regards to puppymills laws lack there of.
We will always have a endless supply of unwanted mutts.
Best all of us can do is take care of our little courner be it as a breeder of rescue or pet who does foster.
All make a difference and it is the only way NOT to go insane thinking of all the sadness in the pet world.
When I get that upset online I just go hug a dog and sometimes cry.
No such thing as caring too much.
Oh well my 2 cents
Great posts from all sides. The bottom line is....we all love dogs.
Part of the reason I posted this question originally is that I got a wake-up call that for me, personally was a surprise. I had not owned a dog as an adult, but had grown up with them all my life. As a kid, we always had purebreds- a Laborador, a German Shephard and a Great Dane. When my husband and I first started talking about getting a puppy, I had my head and heart set on a purebred- because that's what I grew up with.
I was encouraged by so many friends to look into shelters. At first I was resistant, but as soon as we started looking I changed my mind- and my heart. We were lucky enough to adopt Zoe- a Lab/Border collie mix and I can't tell you how much joy this little dog has brought into our lives. She is the sweetest, most obedient, lovable dog I have ever known- including those in my childhood. I never would have looked into adopting if my friends hadn't encouraged me to do so.
Of course we need purebreds for certain jobs- herding, seeing eye dogs, drug smuggling dogs, etc. But if you want a pet, a companion, I would strongly encourage adopting. Just my story.
Part of the reason I posted this question originally is that I got a wake-up call that for me, personally was a surprise. I had not owned a dog as an adult, but had grown up with them all my life. As a kid, we always had purebreds- a Laborador, a German Shephard and a Great Dane. When my husband and I first started talking about getting a puppy, I had my head and heart set on a purebred- because that's what I grew up with.
I was encouraged by so many friends to look into shelters. At first I was resistant, but as soon as we started looking I changed my mind- and my heart. We were lucky enough to adopt Zoe- a Lab/Border collie mix and I can't tell you how much joy this little dog has brought into our lives. She is the sweetest, most obedient, lovable dog I have ever known- including those in my childhood. I never would have looked into adopting if my friends hadn't encouraged me to do so.
Of course we need purebreds for certain jobs- herding, seeing eye dogs, drug smuggling dogs, etc. But if you want a pet, a companion, I would strongly encourage adopting. Just my story.
absolutely, scooter. i would too. both of my current dogs were shelter/rescue dogs. and homer was (and i can, sadly, hold him up as an example of why people don't want to adopt from shelters, don't want to take the risk of getting a dog who is broken and dangerous. i got my heart broken by the shelter system and a shelter dog. i'd do it all over again, though).
but if i had kids to think about, it might be different. if i were getting a puppy, i'm not sure i'd want to get a dog from a shelter. i like a certain kind of dog. i want specific traits and don't want other traits. it's easy enough (usually) to pick that out in an adult dog. puppies are such wildcards, especially if they're mixed breed. everything from size to temperament to energy level- all a wild card. i don't want that. i like predictability. that's why i'd probably look to a breeder were i to get a puppy. not definitely. but probably.
but if i had kids to think about, it might be different. if i were getting a puppy, i'm not sure i'd want to get a dog from a shelter. i like a certain kind of dog. i want specific traits and don't want other traits. it's easy enough (usually) to pick that out in an adult dog. puppies are such wildcards, especially if they're mixed breed. everything from size to temperament to energy level- all a wild card. i don't want that. i like predictability. that's why i'd probably look to a breeder were i to get a puppy. not definitely. but probably.
I may have missed it, but I think there is one major point here that hasn't been addressed yet.
Good breeders keep our domestic dogs healthy. They do temperament testing, health testing, certification, working/conformation tests...all the things that are so vital to the health and well-being of a dog. If there aren't people around who will breed with the best interests of the breed in mind, then the overall health and quality of our domestic dogs will suffer the consequences.
I also don't agree with the mindset of "if you only want a pet, you should just adopt a shelter dog." Who's to say that pet owners shouldn't want or don't need a purebred from a reputable breeder? What if I want to be absolutely sure that my beloved Fido is unlikely to suffer from hip or elbow displaysia? Or, maybe I want to be sure my pup doesn't have a checked or abusive past that might cause problems later in life. What if I want a German Shepherd....a breed that is sadly suffering from a huge influx of poorly-bred dogs from backyard breeders? I think that "pet" people can have as many valid reasons to want a dog from a good breeder as a show/working dog person.
My two cents, as always.
Good breeders keep our domestic dogs healthy. They do temperament testing, health testing, certification, working/conformation tests...all the things that are so vital to the health and well-being of a dog. If there aren't people around who will breed with the best interests of the breed in mind, then the overall health and quality of our domestic dogs will suffer the consequences.
I also don't agree with the mindset of "if you only want a pet, you should just adopt a shelter dog." Who's to say that pet owners shouldn't want or don't need a purebred from a reputable breeder? What if I want to be absolutely sure that my beloved Fido is unlikely to suffer from hip or elbow displaysia? Or, maybe I want to be sure my pup doesn't have a checked or abusive past that might cause problems later in life. What if I want a German Shepherd....a breed that is sadly suffering from a huge influx of poorly-bred dogs from backyard breeders? I think that "pet" people can have as many valid reasons to want a dog from a good breeder as a show/working dog person.
My two cents, as always.
Also people (like me) who want dogs for specific reasons (currently dogsledding, eventually flock guarding and flock herding) need to find a pup that they know will be good at the job they are getting the dog for in the first place (does that make sense?). For example, right now my main dog activity is dogsledding. I prefer to start pups on my own so I can mold them to my liking as opposed to taking on an adult dog who someone else has already shaped and manipulated to suit their liking. If I were to go to a shelter and just pick a pup who seemed to have a lot of energy I run the risk of having an energetic dog who wants nothing to do with pulling - doesnt make much of a sled dog then....But if I go to a breeder who breeds for sled dogs (whether it be purebreds or alaskans) I have a better chance of getting a great sled dog.
With the flock guardians, if I just go to a shelter and pick any random pup I have as good of a chance of that dog being able to bond with the sheep and have the bravery to stand up against wolves and thieves and bears as well as stick close to the flocks and not stray from them when an interesting smell wafts along the breeze, as I do ending up with a pup who would be as quick to chase a wolf as they would be to kill the sheep, or wander away, or be scared of everything and cowering from any strange sound. My chances of getting a good LGD are heightened if I were to go to a good breeder who breeds only proven working stock (whether it be purebred or not).
Does that make sense? For the average owner who just wants a pet to have around the house though, a shelter dog is a great option!!!
With the flock guardians, if I just go to a shelter and pick any random pup I have as good of a chance of that dog being able to bond with the sheep and have the bravery to stand up against wolves and thieves and bears as well as stick close to the flocks and not stray from them when an interesting smell wafts along the breeze, as I do ending up with a pup who would be as quick to chase a wolf as they would be to kill the sheep, or wander away, or be scared of everything and cowering from any strange sound. My chances of getting a good LGD are heightened if I were to go to a good breeder who breeds only proven working stock (whether it be purebred or not).
Does that make sense? For the average owner who just wants a pet to have around the house though, a shelter dog is a great option!!!
Absolutely Gemp.
I wanted a Doberman for a very long time and finally got one. I am not interested in competing. I do not "need" a dog for protection, as I live in a relatively crime free area. However it's nice when I go places that are more dangerous.
I do like to do agility and obedience in a non-competative way. I mostly have my dogs for pets. Does that mean I shouldn't have a well bred Doberman? Here are some of the traits I love about a pet in general and a Doberman in particular:
Atheletic: I love hiking with my dog and enjoy watching his beauty as he is very capable with jumping over logs and brush, his speed and agility is something to behold, as he races through the woods. He's beautiful to watch...a real pleasure. I can't think of a more beautiful and atheletic dog. He's real eye candy.
I love the trait of loyalty. I love how Dobermans have a real penchant to stick close to their ower and have little desire to roam or run off. This makes off leash walking and hiking a breeze. I love a dog who is so focused on his owner.
Trainability: I love how Dobermans tend to take to obedience. They like to be obedient, once they learn what you want. It's more intense than a lot of breeds or mixed breeds I've had in the past. They're really "into" it. They are highly intelligent and only take a few repititions to learn something.
Goofiness: Lots of dogs are goofy, just because they're neonates of their ancestor, the wolf. They're perpetually youthful. But Dobermans are so extremely full of life and have what appears to be an extraordinary sense of humor. I've never had a dog before that made me laugh as much as this dorky guy.
Their ability to discern between good guys and bad guys is uncanny and renoun, far and above many other protection breeds, their stability (when well bred and handled) and watchfulness, alertness, sensativity and awareness of their enviroment....all extreme and intense.
These are generalizations, a little bit. Of course, there are always exceptions. But these are the typical. You don't find these traits in just any dog. These are traits I love in a pet. Why should I have to excuse myself for wanting these traits when I don't use my dog for "working" (whatever that means....he's always working) or competition? I love a Doberman Pinscher for what they are, their purpose, how they were selectively bred to be this way. As long as they're given outlets for their high energy and brains and handled properly, they're wonderful pets. I can't stand it when people say that unless the dog is a "working" dog, bla bla bla....as if competition and actively utilizing his guarding skills on a daily basis is the only definition for "working,")then they shouldn't be owned. Being ready, even if the dog is not "actively or presently protecting" IS working. If they're given a "job," something to do that acts as an appropriate outlet and they're handled, socialized and trained well, they make superb pets. They were bred, not to guard some equipment or valuables, left alone in some junk yard. They were bred to protect their master and his home, not livestock, just their families. So that is why they're so extremely loyal to their families.
I love other breeds too. Chihuahuas have traits I love too. They're not as terrier like as terriers. They're not as persistant or tenacious as most terriers. They are bred for companions. I love their demure size and perkiness. There are many breeds which I can think of, their particular traits that people love for various reasons.
Someone I know adopted a pup from a shelter. He's a lovely dog. But when he was younger, she had no idea that he probably has a lot hound in him. He totally looks like it. She didn't like the trait of running off and disappearing when we took hikes toghether, while my dogs all stuck around close. It was a real pain in the butt. Part of it was training but not all. He wasn't as focused on people as he was on his enviroment. He was very hyper as a youngin'. He didn't seem interested in her even, a lot of the time. There were traits that I don't think she really expected. He has mellowed out a lot as he's gotten older. But see....for me, I don't like a lot of guessing when I choose a dog. I may not be suitable for the dog, just as he may not be suitable for me. For me, the match must match. LOL. You really don't know what you're getting when you choose a mix breed where parentage isn't known. You don't know what you're getting with an older dog as far as aggression problems. I can't risk that with Chihuahuas in the house.
Purebred rescues are fine and definitely are one way to go. I wanted a well bred puppy for my first Doberman. I couldn't take chances with an adult when I have tiny Chihuahuas at home. I had to start with a clean slate and a puppy. I also am not in a position to deal with huge medical bills that sometimes come with an unknown. I already paid for that with one of my Chi's. (byb) So, no thanks. Maybe some day, but not now. Do I feel guilty? Sometimes a little bit. I wish I had more space and no dog aggression or reactivity problems. I wish I could take in dogs to foster, at least. But I am maxed out with my four, one of which was rescued.
I wanted a Doberman for a very long time and finally got one. I am not interested in competing. I do not "need" a dog for protection, as I live in a relatively crime free area. However it's nice when I go places that are more dangerous.
I do like to do agility and obedience in a non-competative way. I mostly have my dogs for pets. Does that mean I shouldn't have a well bred Doberman? Here are some of the traits I love about a pet in general and a Doberman in particular:
Atheletic: I love hiking with my dog and enjoy watching his beauty as he is very capable with jumping over logs and brush, his speed and agility is something to behold, as he races through the woods. He's beautiful to watch...a real pleasure. I can't think of a more beautiful and atheletic dog. He's real eye candy.
I love the trait of loyalty. I love how Dobermans have a real penchant to stick close to their ower and have little desire to roam or run off. This makes off leash walking and hiking a breeze. I love a dog who is so focused on his owner.
Trainability: I love how Dobermans tend to take to obedience. They like to be obedient, once they learn what you want. It's more intense than a lot of breeds or mixed breeds I've had in the past. They're really "into" it. They are highly intelligent and only take a few repititions to learn something.
Goofiness: Lots of dogs are goofy, just because they're neonates of their ancestor, the wolf. They're perpetually youthful. But Dobermans are so extremely full of life and have what appears to be an extraordinary sense of humor. I've never had a dog before that made me laugh as much as this dorky guy.
Their ability to discern between good guys and bad guys is uncanny and renoun, far and above many other protection breeds, their stability (when well bred and handled) and watchfulness, alertness, sensativity and awareness of their enviroment....all extreme and intense.
These are generalizations, a little bit. Of course, there are always exceptions. But these are the typical. You don't find these traits in just any dog. These are traits I love in a pet. Why should I have to excuse myself for wanting these traits when I don't use my dog for "working" (whatever that means....he's always working) or competition? I love a Doberman Pinscher for what they are, their purpose, how they were selectively bred to be this way. As long as they're given outlets for their high energy and brains and handled properly, they're wonderful pets. I can't stand it when people say that unless the dog is a "working" dog, bla bla bla....as if competition and actively utilizing his guarding skills on a daily basis is the only definition for "working,")then they shouldn't be owned. Being ready, even if the dog is not "actively or presently protecting" IS working. If they're given a "job," something to do that acts as an appropriate outlet and they're handled, socialized and trained well, they make superb pets. They were bred, not to guard some equipment or valuables, left alone in some junk yard. They were bred to protect their master and his home, not livestock, just their families. So that is why they're so extremely loyal to their families.
I love other breeds too. Chihuahuas have traits I love too. They're not as terrier like as terriers. They're not as persistant or tenacious as most terriers. They are bred for companions. I love their demure size and perkiness. There are many breeds which I can think of, their particular traits that people love for various reasons.
Someone I know adopted a pup from a shelter. He's a lovely dog. But when he was younger, she had no idea that he probably has a lot hound in him. He totally looks like it. She didn't like the trait of running off and disappearing when we took hikes toghether, while my dogs all stuck around close. It was a real pain in the butt. Part of it was training but not all. He wasn't as focused on people as he was on his enviroment. He was very hyper as a youngin'. He didn't seem interested in her even, a lot of the time. There were traits that I don't think she really expected. He has mellowed out a lot as he's gotten older. But see....for me, I don't like a lot of guessing when I choose a dog. I may not be suitable for the dog, just as he may not be suitable for me. For me, the match must match. LOL. You really don't know what you're getting when you choose a mix breed where parentage isn't known. You don't know what you're getting with an older dog as far as aggression problems. I can't risk that with Chihuahuas in the house.
Purebred rescues are fine and definitely are one way to go. I wanted a well bred puppy for my first Doberman. I couldn't take chances with an adult when I have tiny Chihuahuas at home. I had to start with a clean slate and a puppy. I also am not in a position to deal with huge medical bills that sometimes come with an unknown. I already paid for that with one of my Chi's. (byb) So, no thanks. Maybe some day, but not now. Do I feel guilty? Sometimes a little bit. I wish I had more space and no dog aggression or reactivity problems. I wish I could take in dogs to foster, at least. But I am maxed out with my four, one of which was rescued.
As BP's husband, please let me respond to this one on her behalf
Allow me to digress from the fila to the purebred in general before answering directly.
Purebred dogs are bread to fufill one (or more) specific functions. For example pulling sleds or carts, rescuing drowning victims, fishing, hunting big game, hunting small game, controlling the rodent population, protection, racing, finding and rescuing people trapped in snow avalanches, and working with livestock.
This means that if you have a sighthound and they see a rabbit, you know they're going to take off after it. If you have a water dog, and the kids are flailing in the pool they just might be rescued, if you have a herding dog you might loose them for hours while they run circles around a flock of gees. If you have a guarding dog they might attack someone who is threatening you or your family.
This is what these dogs have been bred for centuries to do. It's in their blood, its in their genes. You cannot train a site hound not to want to chase the rabbit, or the herding dog not to keep groups of animals in a tight bunch.
When you buy a purebred you have the chance to know about these behaviors up front. You'll know if you cant trust your dog off leash in wooded areas, or if you should expect to find holes all over the yard if you get a gopher, or you should expect your dog to notice shadows and things moving on the walls and bark at them, or if they're going to drag you for a walk if you ever put a harness on them.
That is, for the most part, a dog of a breed will do what a dog of that breed should do. You can curb, but never destroy, those instincts.
Now, let me talk about the fila before directly answering your question
The fila is a remarkable dog in that it, by necessity, is an everything dog. You see the fila (also known as a brazillian mastiff) came into being because it was needed. The people living and working in brazil at the time had the need for several different things from their dogs.
They needed a dog which would protect their estates... and those estates were sometimes vast territories. Therefore they needed a dog which was protective of its property.
They needed a dog which would assist them in hunting big game (such as jaguar) which presented a threat to their selves, livestock, and workers. Therefor they needed a cunning, resourceful dog, powerful enough and capable enough to take down prey as big or bigger than itself.
They needed a dog which would mind their livestock. Therefor a dog which would attach itself to other animals in its "family" and defent them from predators, thieves, and smart enough to recognize inherently dangerous situations.
They needed a dog which would protect their investments. This meant slaves. At the time slavery was in full swing in brazil, and a slave was a piece of property which had the will, sometimes, to liberate itself from ownership. Therefor they needed a dog which will attach itself strongly to its masters, while willing to hunt down, catch, and detain human beings.
They needed a dog which would defend its master to the death should the situation arise. Therefor they needed a dog which could, on its own, judge a situation and determine its severity without its masters help.
The fila is a dog which can make judgments all on its own. It can think all on its own. It can determine intent all on its own. It can trick, and trap. It can hunt, and it can defend. It can, and this is fairly unique, and will act even against your wishes if it feels that the situation is dire enough to warrant it.
Let me put it another way. Think of your town, and the worst part of it. The part where you never drive through after sundown and especially never walk through. That part. A fila is the one dog I would want with me most if I had to walk through that part of my town.
The flip side is that you will never ever find a dog more dedicated to its master anywhere. More than any other this is a dog who defines its master as a part of itself. Never will a companion care more about you than your fila will.
And finally there is something of a divergence in the fila world making knowing the ancestry and parents specifically worth knowing. There are two thoughts as to the "original" temperament of the breed. The first thought is that the fila should outright hate all strangers. And the second thought is that the fila should be watchful and wary but not necessarily biased towards hatred of strangers. And breeders on each side of the temperament divide are breeding for outright dislike of strangers, or simply a distrust of strangers.
Now... about mutts
When you breed a purebred dog you are doing your best to guarantee the traits both physical and mental that the dog will posses. As with anything there will be tolerances and allowances within this standard, but on the whole a random sampling of golden retrievers will all be identifiable physically and behaviorally as golden retrievers.
This is done through a perversion of natural selection. The breeder simply eliminates the genetic possibility of, lets say, a short coat or a long coated dog. The genes simply aren't there on the mother or the fathers side to produce a pup with a short coat.
But when you introduce randomness to the equation you get unpredictability. You just don't know for sure what you're getting. And you don't know in what measure.
For example Buddy is (it is largly agreed upon) a Lab/Pointer mix. But which percentage of him is lab? and which pointer? Will he behave more like a lab or a pointer around other dogs? humans? children? cats? birds? Will he be slenderer like a pointer, or less so like a lab?
You see with a mutt there are questions to which the only answer is "we'll have to wait and see"
And finally to answer your question
Do you want the predictability of a purebred, or the "wait and see" of a mutt with a dog thats been bred to think without you, track and detain humans, roam large territories, hunt large game, herd large animals, and to die for its convictions, and weights 100-160lbs?
Will your lab/fila die for you or for the ball? Will your greyhound/fila die for you or for the rabbit? Will your pure fila be of the "every stranger should be controlled" or the "alright, just don't do anything I might have to make you regret" temperament?
Wouldn't you rather know the answer to those questions with this breed, than wait and see?
Which is why we would rather stick to pure lines with the fila than unknown ancestry.
With any dog you need to understand what you're getting yourself into. But with such a dog as a fila you need to have a deep understanding of the breed, and yourself, before making that plunge.
Conclusion
I hope you understand where we're coming from on this issue. The fila is not "aggressive" by any normal measure. As a matter of fact a fila is not at all likely to chase you any distance. Once you're no longer being a threat they no longer care about you.
So it's not an issue of aggression, It's that It's that relating to a dog who has such a strong personality and awareness on so many levels is a big enough task. It's that controlling any wilful 140lb dog is a big enough task. It's that being a dominant owner without causing fear is a big enough task. It's that knowing your dog well enough to steer it clear of situations that you know won't come out OK is already a big enough task. And thats all with knowing the breed.
You don't play chicken with the train unless you're prepared for the possibility of getting hit. And thats why we buy a pure bred fila. And thats why people buy any pure bred. Because sometimes you just need to know what you're getting yourself into, and a purebred lets you make an informed decision up front.
Allow me to digress from the fila to the purebred in general before answering directly.
Purebred dogs are bread to fufill one (or more) specific functions. For example pulling sleds or carts, rescuing drowning victims, fishing, hunting big game, hunting small game, controlling the rodent population, protection, racing, finding and rescuing people trapped in snow avalanches, and working with livestock.
This means that if you have a sighthound and they see a rabbit, you know they're going to take off after it. If you have a water dog, and the kids are flailing in the pool they just might be rescued, if you have a herding dog you might loose them for hours while they run circles around a flock of gees. If you have a guarding dog they might attack someone who is threatening you or your family.
This is what these dogs have been bred for centuries to do. It's in their blood, its in their genes. You cannot train a site hound not to want to chase the rabbit, or the herding dog not to keep groups of animals in a tight bunch.
When you buy a purebred you have the chance to know about these behaviors up front. You'll know if you cant trust your dog off leash in wooded areas, or if you should expect to find holes all over the yard if you get a gopher, or you should expect your dog to notice shadows and things moving on the walls and bark at them, or if they're going to drag you for a walk if you ever put a harness on them.
That is, for the most part, a dog of a breed will do what a dog of that breed should do. You can curb, but never destroy, those instincts.
Now, let me talk about the fila before directly answering your question
The fila is a remarkable dog in that it, by necessity, is an everything dog. You see the fila (also known as a brazillian mastiff) came into being because it was needed. The people living and working in brazil at the time had the need for several different things from their dogs.
They needed a dog which would protect their estates... and those estates were sometimes vast territories. Therefore they needed a dog which was protective of its property.
They needed a dog which would assist them in hunting big game (such as jaguar) which presented a threat to their selves, livestock, and workers. Therefor they needed a cunning, resourceful dog, powerful enough and capable enough to take down prey as big or bigger than itself.
They needed a dog which would mind their livestock. Therefor a dog which would attach itself to other animals in its "family" and defent them from predators, thieves, and smart enough to recognize inherently dangerous situations.
They needed a dog which would protect their investments. This meant slaves. At the time slavery was in full swing in brazil, and a slave was a piece of property which had the will, sometimes, to liberate itself from ownership. Therefor they needed a dog which will attach itself strongly to its masters, while willing to hunt down, catch, and detain human beings.
They needed a dog which would defend its master to the death should the situation arise. Therefor they needed a dog which could, on its own, judge a situation and determine its severity without its masters help.
The fila is a dog which can make judgments all on its own. It can think all on its own. It can determine intent all on its own. It can trick, and trap. It can hunt, and it can defend. It can, and this is fairly unique, and will act even against your wishes if it feels that the situation is dire enough to warrant it.
Let me put it another way. Think of your town, and the worst part of it. The part where you never drive through after sundown and especially never walk through. That part. A fila is the one dog I would want with me most if I had to walk through that part of my town.
The flip side is that you will never ever find a dog more dedicated to its master anywhere. More than any other this is a dog who defines its master as a part of itself. Never will a companion care more about you than your fila will.
And finally there is something of a divergence in the fila world making knowing the ancestry and parents specifically worth knowing. There are two thoughts as to the "original" temperament of the breed. The first thought is that the fila should outright hate all strangers. And the second thought is that the fila should be watchful and wary but not necessarily biased towards hatred of strangers. And breeders on each side of the temperament divide are breeding for outright dislike of strangers, or simply a distrust of strangers.
Now... about mutts
When you breed a purebred dog you are doing your best to guarantee the traits both physical and mental that the dog will posses. As with anything there will be tolerances and allowances within this standard, but on the whole a random sampling of golden retrievers will all be identifiable physically and behaviorally as golden retrievers.
This is done through a perversion of natural selection. The breeder simply eliminates the genetic possibility of, lets say, a short coat or a long coated dog. The genes simply aren't there on the mother or the fathers side to produce a pup with a short coat.
But when you introduce randomness to the equation you get unpredictability. You just don't know for sure what you're getting. And you don't know in what measure.
For example Buddy is (it is largly agreed upon) a Lab/Pointer mix. But which percentage of him is lab? and which pointer? Will he behave more like a lab or a pointer around other dogs? humans? children? cats? birds? Will he be slenderer like a pointer, or less so like a lab?
You see with a mutt there are questions to which the only answer is "we'll have to wait and see"
And finally to answer your question
Do you want the predictability of a purebred, or the "wait and see" of a mutt with a dog thats been bred to think without you, track and detain humans, roam large territories, hunt large game, herd large animals, and to die for its convictions, and weights 100-160lbs?
Will your lab/fila die for you or for the ball? Will your greyhound/fila die for you or for the rabbit? Will your pure fila be of the "every stranger should be controlled" or the "alright, just don't do anything I might have to make you regret" temperament?
Wouldn't you rather know the answer to those questions with this breed, than wait and see?
Which is why we would rather stick to pure lines with the fila than unknown ancestry.
With any dog you need to understand what you're getting yourself into. But with such a dog as a fila you need to have a deep understanding of the breed, and yourself, before making that plunge.
Conclusion
I hope you understand where we're coming from on this issue. The fila is not "aggressive" by any normal measure. As a matter of fact a fila is not at all likely to chase you any distance. Once you're no longer being a threat they no longer care about you.
So it's not an issue of aggression, It's that It's that relating to a dog who has such a strong personality and awareness on so many levels is a big enough task. It's that controlling any wilful 140lb dog is a big enough task. It's that being a dominant owner without causing fear is a big enough task. It's that knowing your dog well enough to steer it clear of situations that you know won't come out OK is already a big enough task. And thats all with knowing the breed.
You don't play chicken with the train unless you're prepared for the possibility of getting hit. And thats why we buy a pure bred fila. And thats why people buy any pure bred. Because sometimes you just need to know what you're getting yourself into, and a purebred lets you make an informed decision up front.
I totally agree with that. Too many new laws and ideals are being based on certain peoples' opinions. Its especially bad in the dog world. Having laws which bar animal cruelty and require that dogs be kept on a leash aren't enough for people anymore. They have to extend their control over every minor facet of keeping a dog. Can't crop, can't dock, can't tie a dog up, can't let them run loose, can't let them sleep outside, can't breed them, can't self-vaccinate, can't hunt, can't weight pull, can't have more than than however many the law says, can't have them intact unless you spend more money, can't own certain breeds, can't own over a certain size... So on and so forth.
I'm no fan of puppymills or backyard breeders. That's why I took years picking the breeder that I would get Loki from. But that was a natural result of my becoming educated over the years about these things. And yes, part of that education was force-fed to me. Those were the parts that took me the longest to learn -- and I ended up learning the hard way anyway -- because we tend to naturally resist people telling us what to believe.
Also, with me personally, I tend to glaze over at sob tactics designed to make me feel bad, or to get me to regard my dog as I would another human. This is not a stone cast at the OP, just generally stating. If someone were to come at me with "You shouldn't crop. That's cruel. How would you like to have your ears lopped off?" they've lost me from the get-go. I'd be more receptive to "I'm personally against cropping. I feel its unnecessary and risky for the dog." The one is a command and a guilt trip. The other is a differing viewpoint. Its perfectly acceptable to give your views and hope that somebody lets it sink in a bit, but that shouldn't extend to inflicting them as moral law upon others.
I'm no fan of puppymills or backyard breeders. That's why I took years picking the breeder that I would get Loki from. But that was a natural result of my becoming educated over the years about these things. And yes, part of that education was force-fed to me. Those were the parts that took me the longest to learn -- and I ended up learning the hard way anyway -- because we tend to naturally resist people telling us what to believe.
Also, with me personally, I tend to glaze over at sob tactics designed to make me feel bad, or to get me to regard my dog as I would another human. This is not a stone cast at the OP, just generally stating. If someone were to come at me with "You shouldn't crop. That's cruel. How would you like to have your ears lopped off?" they've lost me from the get-go. I'd be more receptive to "I'm personally against cropping. I feel its unnecessary and risky for the dog." The one is a command and a guilt trip. The other is a differing viewpoint. Its perfectly acceptable to give your views and hope that somebody lets it sink in a bit, but that shouldn't extend to inflicting them as moral law upon others.
Scooter - I love your story. I've had a very similar experience. I always assumed my next dog was going to be a purebred puppy; I had the breeder chosen and everything. But one of my closest friends runs a rescue, and after fostering a few dogs for her, I decided to take the chance. She found me Meg, who fit every requirement I gave her for size, coat, age, etc. And I ended up with this spectacular, charming, athletic little dog who thinks I hung the moon, and tries her darndest to do whatever I ask. When we are snuggled in bed together, and she buries her nose under my arm, I think of where she was just over a year ago, and am so grateful we found each other.
I have no objections to people who breed or own purebreds responsibly. There are a couple of breeds that I would love to own, although I expect they will all be rescues. Everyone should own the dog that makes them happiest, and that suits their lives the best.
I do object to an attitude I frequently see with regards to rescues (and although there are hints of it here, I'm not really refering to Chaz). It is that all rescues have issues, either mental or physical, that they have shady, checkered pasts, and that you never know what you are going to get. It's fine if you want to get a purebred puppy from a breeder, but please don't discourage others from adopting.
I have a couple of friends who are lab owners. One is vehemently opposed to rescue, for all the reasons you frequently hear (health, temperment, and the ever popular "you don't know what you are going to get"). She got her puppy from a responsible breeder with show dogs. The other girl got her adult lab from rescue. The rescue dog gets constant compliments on his manners, and they are frequently asked what breeder he came from. The puppy has had (unsuccessful) elbow surgery, and is showing signs of HD. He is unreliable around children, as he has a tendency to "play" snap at faces.
Does that mean breeders are bad? No, of course not. No matter how hard you try, you can get bad tempered, unhealthy dogs from a breeder, just as you can from a rescue.
I have no objections to people who breed or own purebreds responsibly. There are a couple of breeds that I would love to own, although I expect they will all be rescues. Everyone should own the dog that makes them happiest, and that suits their lives the best.
I do object to an attitude I frequently see with regards to rescues (and although there are hints of it here, I'm not really refering to Chaz). It is that all rescues have issues, either mental or physical, that they have shady, checkered pasts, and that you never know what you are going to get. It's fine if you want to get a purebred puppy from a breeder, but please don't discourage others from adopting.
I have a couple of friends who are lab owners. One is vehemently opposed to rescue, for all the reasons you frequently hear (health, temperment, and the ever popular "you don't know what you are going to get"). She got her puppy from a responsible breeder with show dogs. The other girl got her adult lab from rescue. The rescue dog gets constant compliments on his manners, and they are frequently asked what breeder he came from. The puppy has had (unsuccessful) elbow surgery, and is showing signs of HD. He is unreliable around children, as he has a tendency to "play" snap at faces.
Does that mean breeders are bad? No, of course not. No matter how hard you try, you can get bad tempered, unhealthy dogs from a breeder, just as you can from a rescue.
I have purchased purebred dogs and rescued purebred dogs. For myself, I prefer a purebred dog, I usually do have a "purpose" in mind however, first and foremost, they are going to be my cherished pet. If the 'purpose' pans out, all the more fun.
My rescued dogs 1. my gsd came from an idiot as a 12 wk old , I was going to foster her and kept her (I have failed at fostering *vbg*) 2. my male aussie came from Aussie Rescue (who I can't say good enough things about)
My "bought" dogs(another GSD & aussie) came from reputable breeders who are now good friends, and I got exactly what I wanted.
I honestly wouldn't mind getting a mixed breed IF it was what I wanted. There are so many things you can do now, as in agility, it's not just a purebred dog game out there. However, I do like knowing exactly where my purebreds are coming from/what's behind them.
Diane
My rescued dogs 1. my gsd came from an idiot as a 12 wk old , I was going to foster her and kept her (I have failed at fostering *vbg*) 2. my male aussie came from Aussie Rescue (who I can't say good enough things about)
My "bought" dogs(another GSD & aussie) came from reputable breeders who are now good friends, and I got exactly what I wanted.
I honestly wouldn't mind getting a mixed breed IF it was what I wanted. There are so many things you can do now, as in agility, it's not just a purebred dog game out there. However, I do like knowing exactly where my purebreds are coming from/what's behind them.
Diane
I agree with everything ToscasMom said ^^^^ and not because I am a fellow Collie owner and have been a Collie/purebreed dog owner most of my life (some mixed mutts too). I don't know but she "nailed" it for me and I won't reiterate but I will add that just because there are those of us who do not "show" dogs etc. then we should own shelter/rescue or mixed breed dogs as some posters intimate just because we aren't breeders or show our dogs? Seems to me there is not total logic in the assertions.
Some people like shelter/rescue dogs and that's great for those who prefer that particular route and others prefer purebred and knowing the background of the dog and in general what you will be getting. Why should anyone who wants a "pet" dog be relegated to a shelter, rescue or mixed breed dog if that's not what they prefer just because they don't "work" or "show" their dogs. Mine are just as happy lending their services to a local childrens day care. And also, there are only a percentage of all purebreed litters that are deemed "show" prospect etc......my, my, if it weren't for us "pet" purebreed owners then the purebreed breeders would have A LOT of puppies on their hands.
Some people like shelter/rescue dogs and that's great for those who prefer that particular route and others prefer purebred and knowing the background of the dog and in general what you will be getting. Why should anyone who wants a "pet" dog be relegated to a shelter, rescue or mixed breed dog if that's not what they prefer just because they don't "work" or "show" their dogs. Mine are just as happy lending their services to a local childrens day care. And also, there are only a percentage of all purebreed litters that are deemed "show" prospect etc......my, my, if it weren't for us "pet" purebreed owners then the purebreed breeders would have A LOT of puppies on their hands.
I wanted a Dane, plain and simple lol. I have nothing against shelter dogs at all, and in fact there are plenty of purebreds in shelters. I think it's a personal choice that everyone should be allowed to make... And I agree with Red (?) that responsible pure bred breeders (there's a tongue twister) aren't the ones causing overpopulation at shelters.
I think it all comes down to what type/breed of dog you fall in love with
I think it all comes down to what type/breed of dog you fall in love with
There is a time and a place in everyone's life for what is best for them . If I was to go back in time .... I would still go with good breeder/breeding . At my age , I was opened to rescue . I didn't need a puppy . I personally don't think I would get a very young pup from the HS. ( Sorry! ) Too many have bad starts in life , health and background , with an older dog , what you see, is what you get.
I don't see it as an attitude. While not all rescues (or even the majority) have issues, there are some of them that do. I think it's very unfair to gush about the joys of adopting, and not be completely up front about the downsides.
It's not to say I'm against rescuing! All my husband's dogs have been rescues. My last four dogs have been rescues. Yes, there are absolutely wonderful dogs there who have been abandoned for no good reason (owners divorce, he sheds too much, new baby, etc.) But there are also dogs who have been abandoned for training or behaviorial problems. Sometimes they're easily-fixed training issues: Rover won't stop jumping on the kids. But there are also true behavioral problems that turn up there: aggression, seperation anxiety, etc.
"You don't know what you're going to get"....unless the owner who surrendered the dog was 100% up front with all the dog's issues, or the dog has been in foster care for at least a few weeks, that holds absolutely true. Even if you get a puppy, especially a mixed breed. You have no clue what the parents were like. Say you get a basset hound/poodle mix puppy. Will it shed or not? Will it require trips to the groomer? Will it be hard to train like a basset, or easily taught like a poodle? How big will it get? Minor issues for some, but very important to others.
Yes, it is true that you can also have issues with breeder-raised dogs. They're dogs, not machines. But the flat truth is that it's far less likely to happen.
If people want to adopt, it's a wonderful thing. It feels awesome to know that you're giving an unwanted dog a home. But people should go into adoption knowing all aspects of it, both good and bad.
It's not to say I'm against rescuing! All my husband's dogs have been rescues. My last four dogs have been rescues. Yes, there are absolutely wonderful dogs there who have been abandoned for no good reason (owners divorce, he sheds too much, new baby, etc.) But there are also dogs who have been abandoned for training or behaviorial problems. Sometimes they're easily-fixed training issues: Rover won't stop jumping on the kids. But there are also true behavioral problems that turn up there: aggression, seperation anxiety, etc.
"You don't know what you're going to get"....unless the owner who surrendered the dog was 100% up front with all the dog's issues, or the dog has been in foster care for at least a few weeks, that holds absolutely true. Even if you get a puppy, especially a mixed breed. You have no clue what the parents were like. Say you get a basset hound/poodle mix puppy. Will it shed or not? Will it require trips to the groomer? Will it be hard to train like a basset, or easily taught like a poodle? How big will it get? Minor issues for some, but very important to others.
Yes, it is true that you can also have issues with breeder-raised dogs. They're dogs, not machines. But the flat truth is that it's far less likely to happen.
If people want to adopt, it's a wonderful thing. It feels awesome to know that you're giving an unwanted dog a home. But people should go into adoption knowing all aspects of it, both good and bad.
Gempress I think both you and BostonBanker make very good points, and I do not think they really disaggree with each other.
Whether you are adopting a dog or purchasing a purebred you need to do your research because their are nasty downsides to both. I am not speaking from experience, but from what I have learned on this forum.
There are downsides to shelter dogs. I consider myself quite lucky to have adopted a shelter dog with no issues who fits right in with my lifestyle. I did research on breeds, but did not really know the questions to ask or really what I should be doing during out "get aquainted session". The upside is that if things went very poorly I could return the dog. Luckily, I have a doggie that is first rate in every way.
There are also downsides to purchased purebreds dogs. You have to research the breeder a lot more than most folks realize. If things do not work out well with the wrong breeder you can be out thousands of dollars and stuck with a sick or ill tempered dog and no recourse.
When you deal with a shelter or a legitimate rescue you are at least sure the motive is not money and that you will get honest answers.
I agree with BostonBaker that some purebred fanciers paint a rosier picture for AKC dogs and discourage folks from shelter or rescue dogs.
I have seen no proof anywhere that the average purebred dog is healthier than the average mutt. Because of their more restricted gene pool a poorly bred purebred IS more likely to have issues. A well bred one may be more likely healthy, you do have a history to look at. However, primary reasons purebred breeders breed (show or work) does not directly relate to long life span, or even the kind of temperment that makes the best house pet.
I do think that any new owner should do a lot of research, more than I did, and if they do that they will end up with a choice they are happy with.
Whether you are adopting a dog or purchasing a purebred you need to do your research because their are nasty downsides to both. I am not speaking from experience, but from what I have learned on this forum.
There are downsides to shelter dogs. I consider myself quite lucky to have adopted a shelter dog with no issues who fits right in with my lifestyle. I did research on breeds, but did not really know the questions to ask or really what I should be doing during out "get aquainted session". The upside is that if things went very poorly I could return the dog. Luckily, I have a doggie that is first rate in every way.
There are also downsides to purchased purebreds dogs. You have to research the breeder a lot more than most folks realize. If things do not work out well with the wrong breeder you can be out thousands of dollars and stuck with a sick or ill tempered dog and no recourse.
When you deal with a shelter or a legitimate rescue you are at least sure the motive is not money and that you will get honest answers.
I agree with BostonBaker that some purebred fanciers paint a rosier picture for AKC dogs and discourage folks from shelter or rescue dogs.
I have seen no proof anywhere that the average purebred dog is healthier than the average mutt. Because of their more restricted gene pool a poorly bred purebred IS more likely to have issues. A well bred one may be more likely healthy, you do have a history to look at. However, primary reasons purebred breeders breed (show or work) does not directly relate to long life span, or even the kind of temperment that makes the best house pet.
I do think that any new owner should do a lot of research, more than I did, and if they do that they will end up with a choice they are happy with.
Contradictions
You know what I find interesting in reading this thread? Several people have commented that they want a purebred dog partly because they can be assured of a certain temperament. Yet whenever the subject of "aggressive breeds" comes up everyone says "it's not the breed it's the trainer." That just seems contradictory to me.
You know what I find interesting in reading this thread? Several people have commented that they want a purebred dog partly because they can be assured of a certain temperament. Yet whenever the subject of "aggressive breeds" comes up everyone says "it's not the breed it's the trainer." That just seems contradictory to me.
I'm also disturbed by how many people assume that all shelter dogs have "issues" . . . that they're aggressive or not housebroken or bad with kids. While this is the case with some shelter dogs, many are dropped off because the owner "is moving" or "has too many dogs" or "it was my daughter's dog and she went to college." And many are simply lost dogs--strays.
My border collie / labrador mix, Ebony, was dumped along the side of the highway with her sisters. Some kind soul found them and took them to town to the animal shelter. She was the perfect puppy and she grew up to be the perfect dog. She lived to be fourteen years old with absolutely no health problems other than arthritis, which didn't appear until she was about ten.
My border collie / labrador mix, Ebony, was dumped along the side of the highway with her sisters. Some kind soul found them and took them to town to the animal shelter. She was the perfect puppy and she grew up to be the perfect dog. She lived to be fourteen years old with absolutely no health problems other than arthritis, which didn't appear until she was about ten.
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