How does a 4.0 student not understand the word 'illegal'?

[jammer]

She should get her papers rolling...what papers? Where would this girl get papers? "She is here illegally because of her parents"...Like I said, should a child born in prison be raised in prison and remain there after becoming an adult with no chance of getting out? She never did anything criminal. You can't look at every person who's parents committed a crime and call them a criminal.

My guess is, if you don't want your dollars going to pay for an illegal's education, you probably vote against your local school budget and don't really want your dollars going to pay for anyone's education.

American is about equal opportunity. It's about everyone getting a chance. Not everybody getting a free ride. But to give everyone a chance, we've got to help each other out. Everyone keeps complaining about how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer but that just isn't true. The government gave me a chance I took. A chance on all of your dollars. Yes there are flaws, people taking advantage of welfare, etc. Complain when someone who doesn't want to work goes on welfare. Don't complain when a tax-paying, hard working, young illegal american (because she IS an american...) wants to go to school to better herself and HEY! better the country that gave her that chance.

You can send her stupid a$$ parents home.

I don't vote against school budgets despite the fact that my money isn't educating my child. Would you like to know why? They did such a horrible job with his learning disability that he actually regressed in academics. Horrid, isn't it? Not only do I pay an expensive private school to educate him properly, I also pay for the illegals children to receive an education. Do you realize why someone in my position wouldn't want to pay for ANOTHER illegal to obtain an education at my expense (especially if she ever leaves the country)? She is here illegally regardless of her circumstances. Sometimes circumstances SUCK. Sometimes parents screw up. Sometimes kids pay for it. She's not exceptional. There are many people who graduate high school with a 4.0 who also happened to become a US citizen. No doubt, it's her parents fault. No doubt they screwed up.

Wait a second, what taxes has this girl paid? What taxes have her parents paid? Property taxes? Are they paying income taxes? How many children were educated vs what they paid in property taxes? It's simple math. You pay in less than you take and that leaves the rest of us to pick up the slack.

Are you telling me that Mexico has no system for their citizens? Do they not do birth certificates? I can't answer that question, so I'll definitely check into it. If they do have a system, what excuse will you use then?

 

[jammer]

Have any supporters of Arizona SB1070 in this thread actually sat down and read the text? As someone who used to live in AZ, and got told on a regular basis to "go back to Mexico and have my baby there", it's horrifying. What exactly is "reasonable suspicion" that someone is an immigrant anyway?

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Yes I have read it. What are you issues with it?

I would suspect reasonable suspicion is someone who doesn't have identification on them.

 

[Romy]

Yes I have read it. What are you issues with it?

I would suspect reasonable suspicion is someone who doesn't have identification on them.

So, because I have a darker complexion I have to carry ID with me so that I can walk down the street and not worry about getting detained by law enforcement while they determine my citizenship status? Or even be jailed over a weekend because I didn't have proof on my person and they need time to get their crap together? Not acceptable. At all.

Why don't they just require all the resident latinos to wear big old patches on their sleeves while they're at it? Or have a microchip implanted in their foreheads. If they can come up to people on the street and ask for proof of citizenship, what prevents them from going door to door next?

The ONLY reason a law should exist is to protect the rights of American citizens. I have a right to not be harassed by law enforcement because they think I MIGHT be illegal. I also have a right not to spend the weekend in jail while they sort my "paperwork" out.

That's my beef with the law. It's so vague you can only suspect what they mean by "reasonable suspicion". And you can bet that if it is vague, those loopholes are going to be used. It needs to go away until they can make a more definite wording that won't get a butt ton of citizens tangled up in the process.

 

[Renee750il]

Yes I have read it. What are you issues with it?

I would suspect reasonable suspicion is someone who doesn't have identification on them.

I call bullshit. I rarely carry ID when I'm walking the dogs -- often late at night -- and I'd wager most people don't.

That gives cops one more excuse to harass and bully people just because they can. Sorry, I get enough of that crap -- from cops -- when I'm walking Kharma, even during the day.

 

[ACooper]

I can't say I know a CITIZEN that doesn't have some type of ID on them 99.9% of the time anyway..........not only that, most CITIZENS could prove it in relatively short time. It's fairly simple to tell the officer "Oh! I don't have my driver's license on me at the moment, but it was issued in THIS state" It's a matter of MINUTES to run your name and address and pull your driver's license (or state ID as the case may be) right up on their screen. Done.

Also, if you don't have a DL or state ID.....what sort of official picture ID do you have? Most people do have something that can be verified easily enough.

 

[Pam111]

I only carry ID when I have my purse which is only when I am going somewhere in a car...and not even always then. If my husband is driving and we aren't going to buy something, I don't necessarily carry it. I NEVER have ID while out walking.

 

[ACooper]

But if you needed to prove who you were, or that you were a citizen Pam, the officer can call it right in, they punch a few keys, and viola.......there you are

 

[Renee750il]

But if you needed to prove who you were, or that you were a citizen Pam, the officer can call it right in, they punch a few keys, and viola.......there you are

It takes them a good 20 minutes and at least two cop cars to call in a license from a traffic stop here :rofl1: You must live in Pleasantville.

 

[ACooper]

It takes them a good 20 minutes and at least two cop cars to call in a license from a traffic stop here :rofl1: You must live in Pleasantville.

Hey, I'll tell you a little story while we are on the subject of ID's and "pleasantville" hahaha

One time I was driving Kevin's Kia to drop one of the kids off somewhere.....it was last minute, I didn't grab my purse, and the car wasn't officially registered to us yet. It had a paper plate that was in the back window, or at least I *thought* it was, LOL

I got pulled over because the plate had fallen down out of view. Here I am, no purse, no ID, no registration, NOTHING.

I told the officer my DL number and address. He ran it, came back and told me to get it taped up in the window better and have a nice day And no, my town most definitely is NOT pleasantville.............but if you ARE who you say you are, there really isn't much to proving it these days of the internet

 

[Romy]

I can't say I know a CITIZEN that doesn't have some type of ID on them 99.9% of the time anyway..........not only that, most CITIZENS could prove it in relatively short time. It's fairly simple to tell the officer "Oh! I don't have my driver's license on me at the moment, but I it was issued in THIS state" It's a matter of MINUTES to run your name and address and pull your driver's license (or state ID as the case may be) right up on their screen. Done.

I rarely have my ID unless I'm driving, and know plenty of people who don't carry one on them as well. That's also assuming the officer is in his squad car when you get stopped, and a lot of officers in Tucson anyway work from bicycle or on foot.

And if you don't have a picture ID on you, how do they know you're not lying and giving them someone else's name? Or what if you don't have a state issued driver's license for a million legitimate reasons? Are we going to require driver's licenses so people can walk? That's frickin' ridiculous. This is not East Germany or the USSR. We shouldn't have to carry around ID papers at all times. And officers absolutely should NOT be able to demand proof of citizenship JUST BECAUSE. If you're arrested for breaking a law and they are verifying your ID and citizenship status, that is one thing. But to give them the power to canvass a street full of people solely for purposes of finding illegals. That's just wrong.

And for those who say, "Meh, citizens have nothing to hide. Why should they be worried?" I say this. If you're not breaking any laws, what do you have to worry about an unannounced home inspection by officers? Why don't we just do away with the need for search warrants? Way more criminals would get caught. It's for our safety.

 

[Renee750il]

Hey, I'll tell you a little story while we are on the subject of ID's and "pleasantville" hahaha

One time I was driving Kevin's Kia to drop one of the kids off somewhere.....it was last minute, I didn't grab my purse, and the car wasn't officially registered to us yet. It had a paper plate that was in the back window, or at least I *thought* it was, LOL

I got pulled over because the plate had fallen down out of view. Here I am, no purse, no ID, no registration, NOTHING.

I told the officer my DL number and address. He ran it, came back and told me to get it taped up in the window better and have a nice day And no, my town most definitely is NOT pleasantville.............but if you ARE who you say you are, there really isn't much to proving it these days of the internet

I got pulled over -- lights, sirens, the whole armada -- in MY driveway (I was followed for 6 blocks) late at night after working late moving the store. I had a taillight out (turns out it had gotten knocked loose in the moving).

Now, even though the cop had my license in his hand, the address matched the address where I was parked IN THE DRIVEWAY, it required three more cop cars -- lights and sirens -- and OVER 45 MINUTES to determine I was who I said I was and that I lived there and I wasn't a desperate criminal on the loose.

Oh, and I forgot the part about being repeatedly told it would be better for me if I would open my mouth and let them look INSIDE MY MOUTH, asked if I was drunk -- no, tired and standing on gravels in clogs with a very angry 150 pound dog on leash, and told, when I asked them to turn off the lights as my parents are elderly and live next door and my mother would have a heart attack if she saw all the drama, that they would do what they want and I'd better shut up.

Of course, I called him a little fascist, and courteously spelled it for him so he could look it up in the dictionary.

 

[Jules]

I can't say I know a CITIZEN that doesn't have some type of ID on them 99.9% of the time anyway..........not only that, most CITIZENS could prove it in relatively short time. It's fairly simple to tell the officer "Oh! I don't have my driver's license on me at the moment, but it was issued in THIS state" It's a matter of MINUTES to run your name and address and pull your driver's license (or state ID as the case may be) right up on their screen. Done.

Also, if you don't have a DL or state ID.....what sort of official picture ID do you have? Most people do have something that can be verified easily enough.

Yes, it's fairly easy if you are CAUCASIAN. I doubt a cop in Arizona will let a Hispanic driver off the hook that easily.

I usually carry my DL on me, but I have never carried my Greencard with me. Even though I am a Caucasian, legal immigrant- and I do not live in AZ, I am paranoid. And yes, it sucks having to carry it on me at all times, because if you lose that piece of document, it's plenty of $$ and a ton of hassle to replace it.

Like I said before, people who never had to go through this process have no idea how humiliating, costly, and intimidating it is. And that is me saying that who came here on a NATO Visa from Germany- I can not even imagine how bad it has to be for a Hispanic immigrant.

 

[Romy]

Yes, it's fairly easy if you are CAUCASIAN. I doubt a cop in Arizona will let a Hispanic driver off the hook that easily.

I usually carry my DL on me, but I have never carried my Greencard with me. Even though I am a Caucasian, legal immigrant- and I do not live in AZ, I am paranoid. And yes, it sucks having to carry it on me at all times, because if you lose that piece of document, it's plenty of $$ and a ton of hassle to replace it.

Like I said before, people who never had to go through this process have no idea how humiliating, costly, and intimidating it is. And that is me saying that who came here on a NATO Visa from Germany- I can not even imagine how bad it has to be for a Hispanic immigrant.

Or even Hispanic people born here. My father in law has a very thick accent. He is a first generation English speaker. Their family has lived in Arizona since before it was part of America. Frankly, it pisses me off to see him get treated like a second class citizen because people assume he's an immigrant, and an illegal one at that just because he has brown skin and an accent. Especially when it comes from some dude who moved to Tucson from New England maybe 5 years ago.

I'm really worried about how he's going to get treated because of this. Yes he has a license and can prove he's a citizen, but the cops shouldn't have the authority to pull over his yardwork truck (yeah, he even has a landscape business) because he's brown and then give him a bunch of crap because he has an accent. It's wrong wrong wrong.

 

[Jules]

Or even Hispanic people born here. My father in law has a very thick accent. He is a first generation English speaker. Their family has lived in Arizona since before it was part of America. Frankly, it pisses me off to see him get treated like a second class citizen because people assume he's an immigrant, and an illegal one at that just because he has brown skin and an accent. Especially when it comes from some dude who moved to Tucson from New England maybe 5 years ago.

I'm really worried about how he's going to get treated because of this. Yes he has a license and can prove he's a citizen, but the cops shouldn't have the authority to pull over his yardwork truck (yeah, he even has a landscape business) because he's brown and then give him a bunch of crap because he has an accent. It's wrong wrong wrong.

Oh yes, of course! That is what I completely managed to leave out of my post, lol! Basically, I get really p!ssed off when people try to tell me that this law is not going to allow racial profiling when that's all what it is based upon.

 

[ACooper]

I never said anything about racial profiling........everything I've read says IT DOES involve racial profiling, and there's no way around that, and the law incorporates that.

People can be upset, but you should be placing those feelings at the ones who make it NECESSARY to have laws like this (and many other laws) in the first place. I bet any one of us can come up with 10 laws off the top of our heads that are stupid, unfair to many, but SOMEBODY, SOME GROUP, or SOMETHING made the laws necessary to have on the books with past actions. It is what it is, something has got to be done.........what do any of you suggest?

I'm not going to sit here and say this AZ law is wonderful, I don't think that at all. But at least they are TRYING to do something about it. They have limited funds like any other state, something has got to give.

 

[Buckshot]

What can be done about it? Get rid of the social programs that entice leeches. Then there are only two reasons to come here, production or starvation. Just like it was when America was really America and not some meld of socialists. I would welcome those who want to come here and produce and we could ship non producing Americans down there in an exchange program.

 

[Renee750il]

People can be upset, but you should be placing those feelings at the ones who make it NECESSARY to have laws like this (and many other laws) in the first place. I bet any one of us can come up with 10 laws off the top of our heads that are stupid, unfair to many, but SOMEBODY, SOME GROUP, or SOMETHING made the laws necessary to have on the books with past actions.

Or this:

People can be upset, but you should be placing those feelings at the ones who make it POSSIBLE to have laws like this (and many other laws) in the first place. I bet any one of us can come up with 10 laws off the top of our heads that are stupid, unfair to many, but SOMEBODY, SOME GROUP, or SOMETHING made the laws possible to have on the books with past actions.

 

[Romy]

I don't think it's ever worth saving any amount of money to give up our rights. People say this law will make neighborhoods safer... yet I am sooo glad my daughter will not be growing up there.

I'll always have the right to introduce anybody breaking into my house to Mr. Shotgun. Regardless of their citizenship status.

Police will always have the power to arrest/detain criminals when they are breaking existing laws. i.e. trespassing, breaking and entering, stealing, etc. I don't have any problem with the measures the new law puts into place that has penalties for immigrating illegally.

I do have problems with the parts that let them basically search anyone they want at will. No law enforcement officer should EVER have that power. In places with rampant drug problems, should they be allowed to make any person on the street they suspect might have drugs empty their pockets and submit to a patdown?

Anyway, illegal immigrants can't get public benefits in AZ to begin with. While we were living there they instituted a whole slew of hoops to jump through so anyone wanting food stamps or medical care has to prove citizenship or work visa status. Incidentally, it also made it so all the homeless crazy veterans can't get food stamps either, because they have no mailing addresses to get their birth certificates sent to. Sigh. If there are any illegals left on public assistance in AZ, they have all the necessary paperwork to show cops if they get stopped, so this new law won't even work on them.

The worst damage is close to the border, where people steal cars and trash folk's places on their way through. You couldn't pay me to live near the border. No amount of regulation is going to stop that. We'd have to annex Mexico or something.

 

[Renee750il]

The worst damage is close to the border, where people steal cars and trash folk's places on their way through. You couldn't pay me to live near the border. No amount of regulation is going to stop that. We'd have to annex Mexico or something.

We already did, but we just took the parts that were Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California

 

[Romy]

We already did, but we just took the parts that were Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California

Touche. We'll have to go for the rest. I hear they have oil. :rofl1:

Then we get to worry about immigrants from Panama, Colombia, and everywhere else. Anyone up for some world domination?