E collar i want to buy? is this ok

C

Captbob

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#141
#141
Dizzy said:
Yes. We go to the beach quite alot I am lucky enough to be 20mins from the sea :D

It's not silly, it's a valid discussion.

There really is no justification for using a training device which just isn't necessary.... If it was just a tingle, why not use a vibration collar?

I can't see the sense, that if it is JUST a mild tingle, then HOW can it possibly get the dogs attention, when yelling, or a "sharp correction" doesn't.

Please explain to me, how a tingle stops your dog dead in its tracks, but a yell doesn't? :confused: I have trained my dog to respond to me, so I can't fathom how a tingle is more enticing than me with a hunk of ham, or a ball... Or on the flip side, how a tingle means NO don't chase the sheep - but NO doesn't..

A short sharp SHOCK will get a dogs attention. Not a tingle... And I don't smack my dog, so why would I shock her :confused:
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Find a good E Collar Instructor and take some lessons in how they work.
 
D

dr2little

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#143
Captbob said:
Have you ever been at a beach with 4 foot waves coming in , and a couple of hundred feet from someone and tried to call them? :popcorn:

This is really getting silly, and frankly I am tired of the childish questions and silly negative comments. It does speak volumes about the type of thinking that goes on in the " e Collars are Evil Camp".... There was one post by someone that really knew what she was talking about regarding E Collars, and I noticed that almost all of you totally ignored it. Facts do get in the way of rhetoric, don't they.....
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Have you ever been to the moon and had a rocket ship race by you when you tried to call your dog???? Come on now.:rolleyes: Dogs have amazing hearing, maybe you shouldn't let your dog get that far out of ear shot.
Funny how I've never run into these scenarios yet we have the raging bow river running through our largest and most heavily populated dog park. Excuses....

Actually there was one person who somewhat agreed with you. Many of us are very familiar with the E-collar but totally disagree with you so you choose to dismiss us. Strange how you believe that your supporter understands the E-collar yet someone who's been doing this for a living for many years has no clue.....again, very telling.
 
Dizzy

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#145
You don't know this person do you? Denis Carthy...

Out of curiosity..

Or recognise the name "Clob"

or.. "cth1013 "

Just curious... again..
 
Dizzy

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#146
In fact Captbob - doing a search on ALL your posts - you have only posted on THIS thread and a leerburg link on a dog park thread.

NO introduction, no photos of your dog - NOTHING.

Denis Carthy/Clob/Captbob....

Hmmm.
 
Whisper

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#148
Dizzy, he is Bobsk, who was here a few months ago and left. The Natural Balance guy. (Who actually ended up switching to Canidae. ;))

On another forum he has the same name (Captbob), the same dog (Smokey) as Bobsk, had the very same argument on e-collars, and got banned from there.
The same condescending attitude and the tendency of this: "..........;)"
 
Dizzy

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#149
Momof2Pups said:
Dizzy, he is Bobsk, who was here a few months ago and left. The Natural Balance guy. (Who actually ended up switching to Canidae. ;))

On another forum he has the same name (Captbob), the same dog (Smokey) as Bobsk, had the very same argument on e-collars, and got banned from there.
The same condescending attitude and the tendency of this: "..........;)"
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Hmm - just sounds a little familiar to a debate that happened on a UK forum - and the fact that captbob hasn't actually introduced ANY dogs, or posted on ANY other threads screams - troll.....

Unless he cares to introduce his lovely dogs for us?

I am still pretty much think this is perhaps dennis carthy - east hampshire is in the UK.... And Denis is from London I believe. An ecollar seller of all people ;) Lectures on ecollars and spams forum with "positive ecollar stories" by fake people.
 
Brattina88

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#153
This is going to sound kindof nutty, but although I wish we wouldn't get into these same kind of threads over and over again, I actually do feel like I learn something when I read them. Not that I would ever use a shock collar - reading Mela
nie or Doberluv, Dr2s, or anyone else's posts on training &/or their experience...
lots of knowledge on this forum :D

I've been wondering how Smokey has been doing . . ?
 
B

BostonBanker

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#154
There really is no justification for using a training device which just isn't necessary.... If it was just a tingle, why not use a vibration collar?
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As he expained earlier in response to my question, dogs prefer a shock to a vibration.

I had actually wondered about Smokey with the NB recall - good to know she's okay.
 
ToscasMom

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#155
Do you guys really think it's Bobsk? I mean I remember him pusing NB ad nauseum, but I didn't have him pegged as a electrocutor.
 
Doberluv

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#157
Yup...he put up some links and told me I probably wouldn't read them. ROFLOL. I read Koehler 30 years ago, have read Castle long ago and the third one is just the same stuff.....unnecessary, immoral treatment of animals. This just sickens me.

Most trainers use the Ecollar as a positive punishment. The dog chases deer so they put the collar on the dog and the next time he starts chasing deer, they blast him with a high level jolt of electricity. He learns that chasing deer leads to an unpleasant experience, no matter how far he is from his handler, and the behavior becomes extinct. (Actually this has two parts, the first part, when the button is pressed to give the dog a stimulation, is positive punishment. The second part, when the dog breaks off the chase and the stimulation is stopped, is negative reinforcement.)

In another situation a dog knocks over the trash cans and eats the garbage. The handler puts a collar on him and next time he approaches the trashcan the handler gives the dog a high-energy jolt of electricity. In this case the dog is conditioned that the trashcan is hot and shocks him when he approaches it. He learns that approaching trashcans is an unpleasant experience.
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Btw C-Bob....if you're such a great trainer, why haven't you taught your dog the behavior of checking in with you by default when on the beach? I don't have to tell my dogs anything at all when they run ahead on our hikes. They automatically come back every 200 feet or so, get a treat some of the time, praise and off they go again.

And this bit about knocking over trash cans????? I have never had such a problem and I never used a e-collar or any pain. I simply taught "leave it" and turned it into a default behavior...all motivation and reward. There are other ways to teach a dog. They can learn that to get what they want is not begotten directly, but via another behavior....the desired behavior. If the things they want are not condusive to what we want, a substitute motivator is used. There are exercises to teach a dog not to chase prey. They learn that direct access does not get them what they want, but coming to the handler does get them what they want. (a substitute) No, it doesn't take months and months of training.

Personally, most of my enjoyement of training is not so much the destination, but the journey. I enjoy working through parts of the whole. It enriches the relationship and bond I have with my dogs. Most of our purposeful or planned (session) training happens while we're on our hikes or walks. It starts when the dogs are puppies and just develops more and more. All the little successes fed to us every day as well as the not so good days is really the esscense of life with my dogs. I wouldn't even want everything to be finished in 10 minutes. I enjoy working with my dogs and making training fun and pleasurable. It's my life. I wouldn't dream of making it such a serious thing.

My dogs are engaged enough with me that I wouldn't ever, ever, ever have to use an e-collar or any other harsh aversive. They pay attention to me well enough that I don't need to really do much of anything to get their attention. A lot of their behaviors are by default, which means I don't have to tell them a whole lot. Even when Lyric was in puppy school...he was about 5 months old, I think... we put them in a down/stay. The trainer said, as I walked away, "don't forget to tell him to stay." I said, "I don't have to tell him to stay. He'll stay when I walk away, leading with my right foot." She said, "show-off!" LOL. I did have to signal for him to lie down with my hand or a quiet, "down."

Training, getting a dog to do what I want on account of avoidance is just not my bag. I enjoy seeing my dogs work, think, try in order to get something they love as well as for the sheer fun of the tasks or skills themselves. I see that with my dogs.
 
Dekka

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#159
Captbob said:
OK, what make and model do you have?
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well if you actually read my post :D I said it was a tritronic one I borrowed ! not sure what model it was, but I know it was expensive ;)

So why do you feel the need to defend your desire to shock your dog? If it was really no big deal...me thinks he doth protest too much
 
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