Dog Bit my dog (and strange behavior) help

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Fran101

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#21
Sounds like normal dogs playing to me!

When yogi feels like playing and kenya is asleep, he was grab her tail.
When they are going crazy zoomies, they play bite, run around, growl, but they are BOTH having lots of fun. its just about reading body language.

To dogs.. their mouths are kind of like our hands. biting doesn't always mean a fight

When you feel they are playing to rough, a loud noise usually puts a stop to it. clap your hands and say "ENOUGH!" and when they stop, praise them :) that way you have a way of teaching them when enough is enough without "scolding".


Kenya is very sensitive to "scolding" she was abused and will BREAK DOWN if I raise my voice at her in an angry way. I aways use a "NO" in a calm but stern voice WHILE SHE IS DOING SOMETHING WRONG and that is always enough. And there is never a need to scold her, she doesn't get what it means or why im doing it, especially after shes already done it.

If she chews something or does something else like that, its a "i shouldve been watching her" situation and NEVER a "she shouldve known better" situation.

Kenya has taught me to never take out my frustrations on a dog. its not her fault and shes way to sensitive to deal with that
 

MafiaPrincess

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#22
Once I got my poodle and had him in my arms I scolded Wishbone and heres the thing, I don't even think he gets he did something wrong because as I scolded him he just stood there wagging his tail.
Even if time hadn't elapsed he had no idea what he did that got you to act like that. Maybe you yelling and carrying on was exciting to him. Got you to be lively and interesting.

(I am a very treat happy pet owner when it comes to training and behavior and its rare I've had to scold my dogs I try to avoid it but I was not going to let this dog just bite my dog and it go unnoticed)
Nothing wrong with ending it.. but I've found yelling doesn't do much good. My dogs don't understand it, but they aren't that soft. It doesn't change them in any way good or bad.

I'm going to talk to his owner when she gets back but doesn't it seem strange that he didn't even realize he was doing wrong?
Don't see the point really. You didn't have a fight. You'd know if you had a fight. I thought I had seen fights till I spent time at Kerri's. Anything I called a fight in past was ever more than a minor scuffle. And she says most of what I see isn't that serious in terms of fights. So the dog didn't react badly to being scolded and you think it should. The dog isn't broken.. There isn't really a conversation needed to be had about this.

(And I'm curious because Sasha is kind of like that too not realizing when we are upset and just wagging her tail but I just let it go thinking she is just a very happy dog)
So your dog is the same to scolding.. yet you feel the need to talk to Wishbone's owners.. double standard much?
 

Doberluv

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#23
By the description of it, it sounds like something that I wouldn't give a second thought to. I'm so use to dogs....having multiple dogs, their playing, rough housing etc. If it were construed as something awful by the dog that got bitten, he'd have bitten back fiercly or left the area. Scolding is fruitless in a situation like that. Dogs are hardly aware of their own behavior....not thinking or connecting what they did, specifically with the scolding. And no, dogs have no human's moral sense about "right" and "wrong."
 
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FluffyZooCrew

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#25
If I did this any time my dogs acted that way, none of my dogs would ever be allowed to play.
 

Laurelin

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#26
Your Trey sounds like Triumph. The louder you get, the harder his tail wags. :rolleyes:
Yeah, it hasn't gotten any better as he's gone deafer and deafer, either. :lol-sign:

My dogs bite each other ALL the time. I know that sounds bad but they do. In play, as warnings, etc. I don't get involved unless it is serious. Most scuffles work themselves out very easily and all the growling/snapping is done for display. The other day Summer was trying desperately to get the others to play but they didn't want to. Nard and Beau ignored her, but Rose growled and snapped (laid her teeth on Summer). That was the end of it. Summer went and laid down somewhere and everything was calm. I don't feel like I should correct Summer for trying to initiate something. Rose corrected her already, lol. Rose shouldn't get corrected because Summer was ignoring the fact that she was obviously not in the mood to play. I've only ever had to separate fighting dogs a couple times and all those fights involved Nikki and Trey.
 
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#27
I never yelled or carried on but I gave a firm "No" and "Ugh Ugh" Now there would have been a fight. Zack does not handle other dogs well and he did growl at the dog. Zack reacts badly. He was attacked as a puppy and has major trust issues with other dogs....until he gets to know them. We had several scuffles early in the day. Which is why I stopped it when I did. I know how far him and Sasha can push each other, but today is the first time we've had Wishbone so I wasn't taking any risks. We think playmates at home he still isn't ready for after today.
 

bubbatd

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#28
Oddly enough I never had this play in my Golden days , mine always played in the neck area ,
 

Doberluv

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#29
Well, if that's the case, that you're quite sure a fight would have ensued, then a firm, "No" or any kind of scolding is not a good way to improve things. It may stop them right there at that moment and sometimes we just have to do what we have to do. Sometimes body blocking or distraction can change the "subject." But as far as a way to work through this, (with a particular dog or other dogs in general) scoldings can make matters much worse because dogs associate something scary, unpleasant or awful happening in the presence of the other dog. So in the future, other dogs around become a predictor of punishment and they become even more distasteful to your dog. Aggression can then escalate. There are some good conditioning exercises that can help in many cases which involve tying together very good things with the presence of the other dog. But of course, the bottom line is management.
 
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#30
Well our trainer said a firm "ugh ugh" or "no" to get the dogs attention is the best way to go. Your dog then knows you mean business. And it prevents things from getting worse. Reward good behaviors but make known when a behavior needs to stop, as in get the dogs attention. (I have never called a dog a bad dog though, the trainer said that was bad)

Are you saying that the trainer is wrong (and we paid a lot of money for that trainer)
 

lizzybeth727

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#31
Well our trainer said a firm "ugh ugh" or "no" to get the dogs attention is the best way to go. Your dog then knows you mean business. And it prevents things from getting worse. Reward good behaviors but make known when a behavior needs to stop, as in get the dogs attention. (I have never called a dog a bad dog though, the trainer said that was bad) .
Yes, I think that's just what Carrie is saying, in fact. WHEN you saw the dog bite your dog, THAT's when you can use "no" or any other word said with stern authority to get the dogs' attention and stop the situation. But you said:

Once I got my poodle and had him in my arms I scolded Wishbone.
which means that you were about three seconds or more too late to use the "no" or whatever to get the dogs' attention. Once you picked up the poodle, I guarantee you had both dogs' attention, so at that point it wasn't necessary.

And dogs don't know what "bad dog" means. You can say "bad dog" with authority to get their attention just as you can say "no" or "uh uh". Basically the only thing that matters is your tone of voice.

Plus I call my dogs all sorts of things sometimes, including "bad dog," but I usually say it with a praising tone of voice, so they think it's something good. :) Like when we have a really terrible training session, but they finally did something right at the very end.... I praise the good behavior, but I use words like "you're so stupid!" and "what a bad dog!", but again, my tone of voice tells the dogs that they are getting praised, so they enjoy it. :)
 

Beanie

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#32
I call Auggie a bad dog all the time, LOL.

I just asked him if he was a bad dog and he smiled at me.
 
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#34
And the worst part is I'm extremly protective over Zack, but only because he was attacked and I'm scared that anything he might percieve as threatening will set him back even further.....so the dog grabbing his foot and not letting go easily......that behavior concerned me. Zack is already dog reactive. He does well with the dogs in his group (as in his friends) But it takes him a long time to accept a new dog and he is still on shaky terms with this one, he hasn't known him long (I have but he hasn't)

Sasha is great with all dogs

Our dogs are on too totally different ends of the spectrum.....Sasha is super submission (I worry about her....you may have heard me say before that she would let another dog kill her before fighting back.) And Zack is very dog reactive it seems. (And he had some very early bad experiences that led him to this point)


And I know its not helping him much that I'm so protective and cautious but I had a shih tzu as a kid that became majorly agressive (not toward dogs but toward kids) (ofcourse it didn't help that he was abused and beaten by a belt before we got him and then my parents didnt know how to handle him and then he got a seizure disorder) And I don't want that happening to Zack. (Zack loves kids and people) but fears most dogs until he gets used them


I wanted to add zack used to just act out in fear toward larger dogs (ones that resembled the one that attacked him) but tonight he reacted toward a chihuahua.....he started barking at it like crazy while we were going to the car in the parkinglot at our apartment. (Though the chihuahua was out with a boxer)
 
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corgipower

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#35
Well our trainer said a firm "ugh ugh" or "no" to get the dogs attention is the best way to go. Your dog then knows you mean business. And it prevents things from getting worse. Reward good behaviors but make known when a behavior needs to stop, as in get the dogs attention. (I have never called a dog a bad dog though, the trainer said that was bad)

Are you saying that the trainer is wrong (and we paid a lot of money for that trainer)
Not wrong. I don't know how the dog would know "you mean business". I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

A "no" can act as an interrupter. It won't teach the dog anything, but it will stop a behavior and allow you to redirect him. It also can break a behavior before the dog develops a bad habit.
 
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#36
I don't event know how to handle Zacks dog issues anymore other than just expose him to as many dogs as I can (slowly and as comfortably as I can for him)

But I can't even put him in a group obedience class.

So todays playdate was for him (plus my friend needed someone to watch her dog for the afternoon)


It can take weeks for Zack to get comfortable around a new dog. He is up to 3 big dogs he is comfortable around. 2 labs and a Lab mix.......and he is getting more comfortable around the boxers we know but its taking time. He does well with the bichon mix, the other poodle, the beagle, the maltese, and he does okay with this Jack Russell but still not completely okay with him. He is most comfortable with Sasha and my grandfathers poodle mix
 

bubbatd

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#38
My dogs have always known " carefull " and " no bite " . But then I've never had a small dog .
 
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#39
Have you read "Click to Calm" yet?

Nope I havent gotten around to it. It takes me months to finish a book and I'm actually reading

"The Dog Whisperer 2nd Edition A compassionate nonviolent approach to dog training" by Paul Owens (I just finished the first one)

And Im about to start a book on Poodles and Poodle behavior (I've had poodles my whole life)


We have also done private classes. He is so smart and knows all commands, sit, stay, down, but when he sees another dog he reacts so bad and barks his head off and he gets real shaky.

ITs going to be a long time before we can put him in group classes.


Because 6 weeks is not enough time for him to get used to other dogs in the class


And its almost embarassing because Sasha is about to go through CGC training And zack acts out so much and its not that we haven't been working with him too (we work with him more) but people are like "Why is your one dog so good and the other so bad?" and he isn't bad he is just scared of other dogs
 
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MericoX

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#40
I don't think a Poodle is quite as tolerant and I can see snapping an issue .
Poodles are a pretty hardy breed, they're not little French Figurines.

Zack does not handle other dogs well and he did growl at the dog. Zack reacts badly. He was attacked as a puppy and has major trust issues with other dogs....until he gets to know them.
So if you KNOW he's not good around other dogs... WTH did you bring a strange dog into your home?

And I know its not helping him much that I'm so protective and cautious but I had a shih tzu as a kid that became majorly agressive (not toward dogs but toward kids) (ofcourse it didn't help that he was abused and beaten by a belt before we got him and then my parents didnt know how to handle him and then he got a seizure disorder) And I don't want that happening to Zack. (Zack loves kids and people) but fears most dogs until he gets used them.
And I dunno how you'd link DR to a seizure disorder popping outta nowheres.

Frankly... I think you need to stop coddling your dogs and treat them like dogs, not children.
 
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