Bad Dog Trainer Beware !!

[Brattina88]

Purdue, dear, I don't believe anyone us claiming that your dogs are unreliabe or whatnot (unless I am blind, and I do admit I skipped a few posts... my eyes are tired LOL)

The bottom line is, IMO, NO ONE has the right to hit a dog with a stick. period.
There are plenty of other was to 'correct' a dog, and physical corrections are just not an okay, easy answer

 

[MelissaCato]

Well, concidering she heads 60+ cattle and 26 horses at home every day of her life, I decided to give her a hard correction on the fast moving tire while in our travels.

She's a better dog now and goes everywhere Christopher and I go, without the worry of her breaking out a window and getting killed. Because that's exactly what she would have done.

Some people's dogs !!

 

[otch1]

Perdue and Melissacato... I'm so slow to type, several posts came in in the process. Ha. Hope you saw my last post and will look Steve up. Thanks.

 

[Purdue#1]

The bottom line is, IMO, NO ONE has the right to hit a dog with a stick. period.
There are plenty of other was to 'correct' a dog, and physical corrections are just not an okay, easy answer

like a verbal correction is going to do something to him and mean something to him when he was lunging after another dog.

 

[Romy]

So are you saying I shouldn't travel with Sara?

I'm saying she should be leashed and under your control, and that it isn't necessary to hit a dog to suppress undesirable behavior.

 

[MelissaCato]

Her perception of training a "hard" dog. I deal with this misconception all of the time and want to mention that inappropriate methods used on a "hard" dog, for lack of a better term, can be disastrous

Actually, you brought up a very good thought yourself Otch.

Maybe someone should start a thread with opinions on what is a "hard" dog. Just so everyone has a fair idea. I'm sure there's people who are learning something with all this bickering.

 

[otch1]

You're right! You start the thread... I'll finish it. Heehee. In all seriousness, it generally takes a professional to evaluate true behavioral disorders and their source, in order to accurately recommend an appropriate course of training. All too often health, genetic and soundness issues are missed by a lesser experienced trainer. It's too easy to jump to labeling an uncooperative, unfocused, seemingly dominant or aggressive student when there are sometimes underlying issues.

 

[Baxter'smybaby]

You're right! You start the thread... I'll finish it. Heehee. In all seriousness, it generally takes a professional to evaluate true behavioral disorders and their source, in order to accurately recommend an appropriate course of training. All too often health, genetic and soundness issues are missed by a lesser experienced trainer. It's too easy to jump to labeling an uncooperative, unfocused, seemingly dominant or aggressive student when there are sometimes underlying issues.

I love a voice of reason!

 

[MelissaCato]

like a verbal correction is going to do something to him and mean something to him when he was lunging after another dog.

Purdue, your wasting your time with this you know. The E-Collar is the new and improved method to the stick. Some people appreciate that, some don't.
Either way it's cruelty in the eyes of the non appreciative.

Those non appreciated are the people of why so many dogs are in shelters at young ages and children mauled. People are buying dogs they are afraid to manhandle or seriously correct, then send them to the shelters or turn them loose, just praying they end up on a farm or put it to sleep because we all know you can't tell a vet my dog bit the baby and killed the cat without serious questions.

I'm sorry, it's my opinion.

.. such things we waste our time on, ya know

 

[Copiuos]

Do you really believe that dogs are incapable of being trained without being hit, shocked, rolled, choked or whacked with a rolled up newspaper, or are those just the methods you prefer?

 

[Purdue#1]

I just couldn't help it. He bit my mentor going after her dog and she said to get rid of him or put him down. give him to a farmer so he can be away from other dogs and herd the rest of his life. I e-mailed richling and another place that was the complete opposite of richling. I told them my problem and richling was the only one who replied back.

i know this is a waste, but it pi**es me off.

 

[otch1]

Red flag. The term "manhandle" keeps getting brought up as a training method. What does that mean as it's never been used by any trainer I'm familiar with. Eeeek!

 

[otch1]

Perdue, I am glad you did not euthanize your dog. I simply hope you take in a variety of training methods, experiences and competitions, verses feeling like you've found "the best" simply because that particular trainer has told you he is. Good luck.

 

[Copiuos]

I just couldn't help it. He bit my mentor going after her dog and she said to get rid of him or put him down. give him to a farmer so he can be away from other dogs and herd the rest of his life. I e-mailed richling and another place that was the complete opposite of richling. I told them my problem and richling was the only one who replied back.

i know this is a waste, but it pi**es me off.

So it's not even that you believe his way is the best it's that he spends more time checking his email?

 

[showdawgz]

Any blood? Bruises? What happened if you didn't do your homework? My dogs have to listen too. So does my child, doesn't mean I hit them.

Hell yeah, when I got my @ss whopped there were many bruises and sometimes blood. If I didnt do my homework, I got spanked, old school. Kids these days are out of control. I was watching Maury today and these 15 YEAR OLD girls where physically abusing their mothers and had their mothers TERRIFIED of them. Now so help me God, if my child EVER raised their hand to me, I would BEAT the holy sh*t out of them, and I have no shame in saying that. Would that make ma a bad parent? Not at all. Doesnt mean i'm going around beating my kid for stupid things like I was whooped for (like not doing my chores, not doing my homework ect. Although those tasks are important I see no need for physical intervention here).

There is a time and a place for everything. I compare my spankings caused by myself not doing a chore or hw to using harsh training methods (hitting, swatting ect) used on dogs when they dont follow simple commands such as sit or down. That is unacceptable and harsh in most situations for such a simple command. Now I feel a child who raises their hand or hits their parents suffer a huge behavioral problem, one can compare that to dog agression. Yes I will resort to physical means if my child raised their hand to me (that issue is way beyond ignoring) as I would if my dog showed true unprovoked agression. Now I would not hit a dog regardless, but he will recieve a harsh correction. I'm not talking about a growl here or there I mean full on agression such as lunging and snapping. Like I said there is a time and place for everything. You may or may not agree, it is your opinion.

 

[Doberluv]

Perdue, I am glad you did not euthanize your dog.

I'm not. He'd be better off dead. And so would all the dogs that morons exploit and abuse.

 

[MelissaCato]

Do you really believe that dogs are incapable of being trained without being hit, shocked, rolled, choked or whacked with a rolled up newspaper, or are those just the methods you prefer?

Most dogs are good and just like you said above. But some ARE NOT, and I speak for the ones that need harder corrections, it's what I prefer. Please don't turn this into a good dog verses bad dog simply because of "methods" "old school" or not.

The dogs speak for themselves either way. The ones without harder human corrections are the ones that end up in legal trouble or pounds then to inocent families who wouldn't know better. It should be expected beings someone mentioned earlier wolves wanted to be domesticated. Again, that was jibberish I think. Must be a native thing, I dunno yet.

 

[showdawgz]

Can your dog play with other dogs? Does he enjoy them? If you left him alone with another dog would he still be "nice"? Or is he only behaving because he is afraid of having the snot beat out of him?

That is about the most idiotic thing I've heard. Why would you leave 2 dogs unattendant. I dont care how friendly your dog is, a dog fight can errupt at any time. Especially dogs that are not in your pack. And you wonder why your dog has/had DA or DR problems .

 

[showdawgz]

. A dog that is corrected physically I could never trust unsupervised. They are only behaving because they are scared you will punish them for doing the "bad thing".

That obviously tells me you know NOTHING about TRUE DDR/East German Working line GSD's. A slight correction isnt going to ruin their day, or that minute. When I give Mace a prong correction that heightens his drive and gets very excited, not scared.

I have an idea!!! Since none of my dogs can be trusted unsupervised (IMO NO DOG WITH TEETH can be trusted 100%) I think I will use Mace's reactivity to the prong to keep him sharp and drivey in public with many children running around.:yikes: He's already a civil dog, but since he cant be trusted as you, the expert, say then why not make him into a vicious monster. That could be done very easily but I as an owner do my job to keep my dog under control.

And I'd like to add none of my dogs fear me, I have a bond with each and every one of my dogs.


And tell me, miss GSD expert, what would you do if you just got in a 13 month old Czech male GSD who is very hard, dominant, independent, drivey, and civil (yes at that age), and BTW is full of himself. You will find it very hard to just "walk away" from a situation in which the dog is barking and lunging trying to get another dog. You will eventually cause "PAIN" to the dog one way or another. You will have to pull so hard and DRAG the dog away, practically suffocating it, equivelant to hanging the dog. But wouldnt the situation be so much easier using a prong rather than DRAGGING a 85lb DETERMINED dog away from the "trigger".

If you ever encounter a dog like this (highly unlikely) I suggest that you wrap the leash around your hand to give more control and that way when the dog decides it wants to chase a cat or something, you wont have to worry about dragging the dog and hurting it, he'll be dragging you :lol-sign: .

 

[Whisper]

There is no need to harshly correct a dog with a stick.
It's funny how the most successful trainers on this board use positive reinforcement as a primary method, something, based on some of the responses, many have very little grasp of.
I guess you need training skills to be able to train without harsh corrections, instead of behavior suppression skills.
*shakes head* I better not get into this. . .
Some of these responses have been incredibly rude.