Bad Dog Trainer Beware !!

[Dekka]

Really this is so sad it is almost funny. People rehabilitate the really hard cases using positive methods. They work. If you think positive means waving a cookie and ignoring bad stuff, then you are really stupid to claim it doesn't work. There are reasons no person who is trained in animal behaviour advocates harsh methods. An effective positive punishment (ie adding a punishment like hitting) should stop the behaviour after one (maybe 2) applications. If it doesn't you are abusing your dog. So if your dog won't sit when you say sit, do you ever ask why?

My dogs are very reliable. If one didn't sit or down when I said so, I would see if they were hurt (and doing agility it is always a possiblity they have strained something) or if something was wrong (like something pointy in the grass (thistle, glass etc) my responce would not be to hit my dog. And for those who say about ard cases. JRTs can be about as dominant and stubborn as they come. I have rehabilitated 7 that were due to be euthed due to HA. All have been happily adopted out. At least one was MADE HA by being whacked by the woman of the house. He took the longest to work with..about 3 months.

Also to say kids need to be whupped because there are extremes (which IMO is closing the barn door AFTER the horses have escaped) My issue is why let it get to the point of kids hitting parents, or dogs out of control. Fix it sooner, its easier. But tough love works on dogs and kids...and no you don't have to hit them.. Just take everything away from them, and make them earn ANYTHING, any little thing they want. Aggression breeds aggression (as can be seen on this thread) clear consistent rules with rewards and consequences will work.

 

[showdawgz]

My dogs are very reliable. If one didn't sit or down when I said so, I would see if they were hurt (and doing agility it is always a possiblity they have strained something) or if something was wrong (like something pointy in the grass (thistle, glass etc) my responce would not be to hit my dog. And for those who say about ard cases. JRTs can be about as dominant and stubborn as they come. I have rehabilitated 7 that were due to be euthed due to HA. All have been happily adopted out. At least one was MADE HA by being whacked by the woman of the house. He took the longest to work with..about 3 months.

There is a big difference in strenght when it comes to a 20lb and an 85lb. Sorry you cannot compare. Now a Mali and GSD's strength can compare but a JRT is a longshot.

Also to say kids need to be whupped because there are extremes (which IMO is closing the barn door AFTER the horses have escaped) My issue is why let it get to the point of kids hitting parents, or dogs out of control. Fix it sooner, its easier. But tough love works on dogs and kids...and no you don't have to hit them.. Just take everything away from them, and make them earn ANYTHING, any little thing they want. Aggression breeds aggression (as can be seen on this thread) clear consistent rules with rewards and consequences will work.

Kids mock other kids. They see their disrespectful friends doing it, next thing you know its the "in thing" to hit your parents. And *IF* that were to happen, all h%ll would break loose. NO WAY IN HELL will I allow my child to hit me just like there is NO WAY IN HELL I'm going to let my dogs act agressive for no apperent reason and get away with it. *Spare the rod, spoil the child.* Corrections are a part of life. I get corrected every day for my mistakes. I've been physically, mentally, emotionally, verbally abused AND???

Training is one thing, behavior is another. Training is for my benifit and am ASKING my dog to comply. There is no way I'm going to punish the dog for something I am asking for. He gives me what I want he gets what he wants. Behavior is EXPECTED. My dogs WILL know what is appropriate and what is not. Training I do use positive reinforcement and rarely use corrections (dont need to). My dogs are very strong willed and when it comes down to there is no motivator that will divert my dog given the proper trigger, and if there is I dont want my dog choosing not to be agressive (who knows the dog might not be hungry, might view focused object of attraction at a higher value than a motivation), or maybe that day they had a bad vibe from another dog, who knows?!. My dogs do not make choices when it comes down to behavior. There is a strict pack order, and I tell them what they can and cannot do.

 

[Cheetah]

that's exactly what i mean. you want to keep your dog from any distractions that may cause it to break down. he trains among them. that's what a correction is for. you run away from the thing that causes the dog to break down instead of facing the dog's fear and moving forward.

This is absolutely wrong. You still don't understand "our training methods." When you toss an untrained dog into an area FULL of distractions, you're setting that dog up to fail. That's why you have to resort to beating it with a stick.

We do NOT keep our dogs away from distractions. We train them slowly, with more and more distractions, until they're fine with everything, and the great part is that we don't have to raise a hand to our dogs at all. My dog looks at me eagerly when I am training him, not with the fear that I may hit him for messing up.

And no, I don't use treats all the time (if you have to rely on treats FOREVER, you are NOT doing positive training right!), and YES, I DO occasionally use some forms of correction, but none of them involve raising a hand (or stick) to my dog.

 

[MelissaCato]

And tell me, miss GSD expert, what would you do if you just got in a 13 month old Czech male GSD who is very hard, dominant, independent, drivey, and civil (yes at that age), and BTW is full of himself.

ShowDawgs, you do notice the whole crown is saying to through ooops throw him a cookie. LMAO

 

[Cheetah]

^ Actually no, nobody is saying that.

 

[Copiuos]

I have children and I have never had to resort to beating to get them to mind. They do their homework, chores and mind their manners because that's the example I've given them. Now, if I was trying to "manhandle" them and force them to submit I bet I would have to resort to brutality. My children aren't violent and would not use violence against me. They are not undisciplined either. You guys seem to think that if someone isn't beating their children or animals into submission that they are left without guidance. My children look to me for guidance.....I've never had to resort to forcing guidance on them. If you cannot get through to a child any way besides hurting them you should consider putting your children up for adoption. There are plenty of us who can correct without abuse and get awesome kids as a result.

 

[Dekka]

LOL Melissa, why would you reward that behaviour, you are too funny. No positive trainer would do that. No wonder you think positive training doesn't work.

And as for size of dogs, I have friends with mals..big drivey ones. But I am talking attitude. JRTs are about as dog aggressive as they come, and some can be pretty HA too. Size has no bearing on the argument. If I can train my dogs to behave in an appropriate manner size is irrelevant. Size only matters if your training fails. My dogs sit on the booth at big shows and get pet by thousands (litterally) of strangers, kids in strollers, etc etc. I trust them as much as a dog can be trusted, (as in all dogs can bite) with humans. I don't trust them with strange dogs..but that is just common sense.
People use positive training on animals that can kill humans..not punishment based training...if it works for a rhino, walrus, killer whale, bear etc..why shouldn't it work on a mal. Cause your mal has nothing on a grizzly bear

 

[Dekka]

I have children and I have never had to resort to beating to get them to mind. They do their homework, chores and mind their manners because that's the example I've given them. Now, if I was trying to "manhandle" them and force them to submit I bet I would have to resort to brutality. My children aren't violent and would not use violence against me. They are not undisciplined either. You guys seem to think that if someone isn't beating their children or animals into submission that they are left without guidance. My children look to me for guidance.....I've never had to resort to forcing guidance on them. If you cannot get through to a child any way besides hurting them you should consider putting your children up for adoption. There are plenty of us who can correct without abuse and get awesome kids as a result.

Excellent post..my son is a good kid. I get complements all the time. Don't beat him though.

 

[MelissaCato]

I never said, positive training doesn't work, it most certainly does.

 

[Dekka]

If it works then why would you ever need to whack a dog?

 

[Copiuos]

I never said, positive training doesn't work, it most certainly does.

Do you get something out of hurting things then?

 

[showdawgz]

I have children and I have never had to resort to beating to get them to mind. They do their homework, chores and mind their manners because that's the example I've given them. Now, if I was trying to "manhandle" them and force them to submit I bet I would have to resort to brutality. My children aren't violent and would not use violence against me. They are not undisciplined either. You guys seem to think that if someone isn't beating their children or animals into submission that they are left without guidance. My children look to me for guidance.....I've never had to resort to forcing guidance on them. If you cannot get through to a child any way besides hurting them you should consider putting your children up for adoption. There are plenty of us who can correct without abuse and get awesome kids as a result.

If you read my first post you would see I said that it is rediculous to beat a child for stupid things such as not doing chores. I was making a comment because of a TV show, Maury, that I happened to be watching this morning. You should have seen the TERROR in these mothers eyes when they 15 year old child came out. THEY had beaten their mothers into submission. I was making a comment that I would NEVER allow my child to think they own me. I would not spank my child but IF (key word) I were in the situation as those poor mothers who were so frighten I would definately give them some kind of "marker" (ie beating the sh%t out of them) showing them that was not acceptable, a simple "go to your room" is not a sufficient punishment and "no computer for a week" PUH-LEASE are you kidding me? For hitting or attempting to hit their mother or father. One of the little brats actually stabbed her mother causing her mother a visit to the hospital. I did not ask you about your kids, and frankly I could care less, no offense. I was speaking in a "what if" tone. BTW this generation of children have to be the rudest, crudest, coldest, ill-hearted generation ever. So something in your method may be flawed . But everything has to be HAPPY *jumping for joy* .

 

[Dekka]

So the parents should have fixed it BEFORE the kid is whacking them. Seems like a sick situation, and that is if you believe what you see on Maury. And tough love would work on them (unless they are unbalanced, in which case they need proffesional medical help)

 

[showdawgz]

ShowDawgs, you do notice the whole crown is saying to through ooops throw him a cookie. LMAO

:lol-sign: . "Yes, Wolfie thats a good boy. Instead of turning around to bite me for restraining you from getting the strange dog, you just dragged me along with you. Thats an improvement". :lol-sign:

 

[elegy]

wow. i find this whole thread incredibly sad and distressing.

i'm not a pure positive trainer. i think there is an appropriate time for corrections. i'm a huge believer in negative punishment. but a dog being drivey and resilient enough to take this kind of abuse doesn't make it ok. luce is drivey and resilient, and in another life when i didn't know better, i used a lot of leash corrections and even hitting her to try to stop her dog-aggression (which she came with).

guess what? it didn't work.

but thankfully i learned better and now have a dog i trust in public, a dog who doesn't pop off at other dogs, a dog who is a pleasure to be with.

i wonder how much better she would be even from here if we hadn't had such a rough start.

 

[MelissaCato]

Do you get something out of hurting things then?

No, I do not.

 

[Dekka]

:lol-sign: . "Yes, Wolfie thats a good boy. Instead of turning around to bite me for restraining you from getting the strange dog, you just dragged me along with you. Thats an improvement". :lol-sign:

So you don't get it either do you? That is like saying a person who uses P+ will kick a puppy when it sits If you are retraining a DA dog, you start below the dogs threshold and build up.

 

[tessa_s212]

If anyone is looking for a dog trainer in Louisville, KY, be aware of a trainer named Martin Richling. I have set in on one of his classes, and this guy is totally out of his mind !! Whatever you do, don't ever be late for training classes because he totally freaks out yelling & screaming at you !! Mr. Richling thinks he is the smartest dog trainer in the world, and he constantly lets you know it, so much that he says that his training is where dogs are trained correctly. If you believe in dragging your dog cutting off their air, or hitting them with a flexible plastic stick as the best training in the world, then you don't need to own a dog. Mr. Richling clients are totally brain washed because they don't know any better. Mr. Richling trains your dog as if it is going into war or is going to be used as a police or military dog.

Here is an article written by Mr. Richling: A Trainer From Time Past", he talks about beating a dog with a heavy switch until it gets cuts and shows submission: "The switch should be employed until the
animal submits and his will to resist, and the exasperation that
accompanies it, is replaced by fear. So long as the dog does not
submit, but continues to resist, a flexible switch should be used, if
necessary, on the head and jaws, but not on the top of the nose. It
may also be used on the neck, ears, legs and tail, but not on the
sexual parts or on the lower regions of the belly and chest. Apart
from such exceptional cases heavy cuts should only be applied to the
powerful muscles on the fore and hindquarters and on the back."

Mr. Richling is well known for his training methods around Louisville that many of the animal organizations around town have looked into his training methods.

If that wasn't bad enough, if you really want to be scared, Mr. Richling is also a convicted felon. Mr. Richling spent time in federal prison for demanding money from three people for bribes when he was a cop.

Is this the type of person you want training your dog? Would you leave your kids with this type of person?

Be afraid Be very afraid !!

My only advice is to sneak in a video camera. Get this man found out and charged with the abuse and mistreatment of animals.

SIck, sick, sick man that deserves to be put in prison for his cruelty towards animals, that's all I have to say.

 

[Purdue#1]

Perdue, I am glad you did not euthanize your dog. I simply hope you take in a variety of training methods, experiences and competitions, verses feeling like you've found "the best" simply because that particular trainer has told you he is. Good luck.

I would never do that. He's part of the family. I didn't choose him because he told me he was the best, i saw it in the dogs he was training. His dog Zadok is amazing.

Copiuos, i waited 2 weeks for both to e-mail me back. he e-mailed back the next day. To this day the other place never e-mailed me back. It shows a little how badly they want to train my dog and how they will train my dog. I told them exactly what the problem was and i guess they didn't want to deal with sly's problems.

showdawgz can you come to my school and teach some of my peers a lesson in respect? They kind of need it across their mouth. Go Maury!!:lol-sign:

 

[MelissaCato]

VVVzzzroooooM !!!

Can someone please throw the darn cookie ...... :lol-sign: