Awww, crap. I have the opportunity to buy a puppy...
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Is this dog intended for sports or a pet?
I don't know. I purposely go out and get messed up dogs because I feel them having their lives are worth more than me having to pay som' vet bills...
I don't loose any sleep over it. They are pets. I don't care if they are imperfect and the fasination with perfect health excapes me.
now I obviously have to end every post with a disclaimer. :just my opinion. Not an attack on anyone. yeesh
I don't know. I purposely go out and get messed up dogs because I feel them having their lives are worth more than me having to pay som' vet bills...
I don't loose any sleep over it. They are pets. I don't care if they are imperfect and the fasination with perfect health excapes me.
now I obviously have to end every post with a disclaimer. :just my opinion. Not an attack on anyone. yeesh
I've only skimmed this thread sooo this is all I have to say...
If I was going to spend my money on a dog with unknown background I would rather support a rescue that tries to improve the pet population/community. Plus, for my money I should get a spay/neuter included as well as shots and deworming and a vet check. At a minimum. And I know I'm not encouraging someone to continue breeding.
If I was going to spend my money on a dog with unknown background I would rather support a rescue that tries to improve the pet population/community. Plus, for my money I should get a spay/neuter included as well as shots and deworming and a vet check. At a minimum. And I know I'm not encouraging someone to continue breeding.
Fluffy, he still hasn't found out about testing either way. Maybe dad has been tested. If dad's siblings and cousins were peddled off to police departments I would not be surprised in the least if their grandparents, and further back are in the OFA database. Something to check into.
For the rest of Coops quote, I think she meant puppies vs. a screwed up 1 year old dog, which is where he'd be getting them in a year if they go to bad homes and end up abandoned instead of starting out well to begin with.
And yes, it DOES matter what kind of socialization puppies get before 8 weeks. Why was everybody screaming about the misunderstanding that the pups were living outside earlier, if it isn't important?
Personally, I don't see an oops litter making someone a BYB. It has happened to Chaz members before. At $100 a puppy it isn't going to make this guy any money. It is going to dissuade sickos who want a free dog to torment, and cover food, shots, and worming.
This whole thread reminds me of when I first posted about getting Strider, and I almost didn't because everybody flipped out on me. I am so, so glad I did not listen to a bunch of internet people spouting opinions who had never met the breeders, never met the parents, the puppies, didn't know the lines, my own personal situation, etc. because if I had I would not have my heart dog, my service animal, he wouldn't be a part of our family today.
And if anybody wants to give me flak about Strider please take it to PMs because I don't want it clogging GOs thread.
For the rest of Coops quote, I think she meant puppies vs. a screwed up 1 year old dog, which is where he'd be getting them in a year if they go to bad homes and end up abandoned instead of starting out well to begin with.
And yes, it DOES matter what kind of socialization puppies get before 8 weeks. Why was everybody screaming about the misunderstanding that the pups were living outside earlier, if it isn't important?
Personally, I don't see an oops litter making someone a BYB. It has happened to Chaz members before. At $100 a puppy it isn't going to make this guy any money. It is going to dissuade sickos who want a free dog to torment, and cover food, shots, and worming.
This whole thread reminds me of when I first posted about getting Strider, and I almost didn't because everybody flipped out on me. I am so, so glad I did not listen to a bunch of internet people spouting opinions who had never met the breeders, never met the parents, the puppies, didn't know the lines, my own personal situation, etc. because if I had I would not have my heart dog, my service animal, he wouldn't be a part of our family today.
And if anybody wants to give me flak about Strider please take it to PMs because I don't want it clogging GOs thread.
I'll be here. Plan on going back by tomorrow.
Something like that. With a puppy from the shelter (or at least the one here) you have zero idea who the parents are, what the parents even were, etc.
In the shelter I worked in while going to college (different town) we got a few GSDs and some of them were really cool, and I would've picked them up, but others were a bit...disturbed? Not something I would want around children.
Now, we have no children in our house hold (other than other dogs) but I might have some by the time the dog runs the course of its life.
And I realize that, but like I said we don't get many GSDs in our shelter. Sheeba, whom we adopted some 15 years ago from the same shelter, is a GSD/GR mix (predominately GR phenotypically and GSD in traits), so I'm well aware that shelter dogs can be utterly awesome pets, but unfortunately, odds are that we got a bit lucky with that one in that she had no real problems to speak of.
I just want a GSD, and that's not something our shelter nor my vets (neither the one I go to nor the one I work for; both of which adopt out dogs every now and then) can provide that.
I'm no longer really a college student since I graduated. Just working on a master's now while reapplying. And I'm known as a bit of a penny pincher, so I have some money saved up for reasons such as this. But that's what I'm looking for, the 'expensive issues' that GSDs get. I plan to get the parents looked at for HD/ED if possible (assuming they haven't been already) both for the puppies welfare and to keep me off of it.
Other than that, I don't know of any other expensive issues that GSDs get, which is why I came here. Reference the original post.
A pet. I'd love to get into SAR but that's not going to happen right this moment and the dog will be too old by the time I get to a point I could start that. On the plus side, I'd have a bit of experience with a GSD to start a SAR dog at that point in time. That's half the battle won; then I just gotta learn how to train a SAR dog.
Something like that. With a puppy from the shelter (or at least the one here) you have zero idea who the parents are, what the parents even were, etc.
In the shelter I worked in while going to college (different town) we got a few GSDs and some of them were really cool, and I would've picked them up, but others were a bit...disturbed? Not something I would want around children.
Now, we have no children in our house hold (other than other dogs) but I might have some by the time the dog runs the course of its life.
And I realize that, but like I said we don't get many GSDs in our shelter. Sheeba, whom we adopted some 15 years ago from the same shelter, is a GSD/GR mix (predominately GR phenotypically and GSD in traits), so I'm well aware that shelter dogs can be utterly awesome pets, but unfortunately, odds are that we got a bit lucky with that one in that she had no real problems to speak of.
I just want a GSD, and that's not something our shelter nor my vets (neither the one I go to nor the one I work for; both of which adopt out dogs every now and then) can provide that.
I'm no longer really a college student since I graduated. Just working on a master's now while reapplying. And I'm known as a bit of a penny pincher, so I have some money saved up for reasons such as this. But that's what I'm looking for, the 'expensive issues' that GSDs get. I plan to get the parents looked at for HD/ED if possible (assuming they haven't been already) both for the puppies welfare and to keep me off of it.
Other than that, I don't know of any other expensive issues that GSDs get, which is why I came here. Reference the original post.
A pet. I'd love to get into SAR but that's not going to happen right this moment and the dog will be too old by the time I get to a point I could start that. On the plus side, I'd have a bit of experience with a GSD to start a SAR dog at that point in time. That's half the battle won; then I just gotta learn how to train a SAR dog.
Personally, I'm less concerned about what posters my vet has up then how she treats my dogs. When we first got Sally and had no vet, Sally was kicked in the head by a horse. It was 5:30 at night, the vet's office had never even heard of me, and I just called them because they popped into my head as being recommended by a friend. They could have easily directed me to the local emergency vet ($90 just to walk in the door), but they gladly saw Sally and I've been going ever since.
My dogs wiggle butt every time they go to the vet, I have trusted her judgment when treating my dogs, when Sally was sick with a bad kidney infection she specifically put her in the cat ward so that they dogs barking wouldn't disturb her and allowed us to go back and visit her whenever we wanted for as long as we wanted, she has no issue with us taking Jack to a vet that has more experience in orthopedics, and most importantly she very literally saved Jack's life when he had a bowel obstruction.
To me, this kind of stuff is *far* more important than if her office posters are "PC" by internet dog person standards.
My dogs wiggle butt every time they go to the vet, I have trusted her judgment when treating my dogs, when Sally was sick with a bad kidney infection she specifically put her in the cat ward so that they dogs barking wouldn't disturb her and allowed us to go back and visit her whenever we wanted for as long as we wanted, she has no issue with us taking Jack to a vet that has more experience in orthopedics, and most importantly she very literally saved Jack's life when he had a bowel obstruction.
To me, this kind of stuff is *far* more important than if her office posters are "PC" by internet dog person standards.
Yes, but that is in your area. In ours, we have lots of GSDs in shelters, but they are pretty much all over 1 year. I've never, ever seen an actual GSD puppy in the shelters in our area. Lots and lots or pit bull puppies and maybe a lab or two if you lucky, but as far as purebred pups, no.
That having been said, with the info given, I likely would not buy from this breeder even if there was health testing. However, my issues would mostly be personal ones. I have had some rather bad experiences with GSDs, including a face bite that got me 21 stitches as a kid, and if I were to get a GSD from a any breeder it would be from one known for producing dogs with very solid temperaments. No offense meant to GSD people...
That having been said, with the info given, I likely would not buy from this breeder even if there was health testing. However, my issues would mostly be personal ones. I have had some rather bad experiences with GSDs, including a face bite that got me 21 stitches as a kid, and if I were to get a GSD from a any breeder it would be from one known for producing dogs with very solid temperaments. No offense meant to GSD people...
German Shepherds should be checked for hip dysplasia, eblow dysplasia, heart disease, and vWD at the very least.
What would I do in the same situation??? I would wait, save up, and buy a puppy from a reputable breeder. One whose dogs don't just seem friendly during a breif meet-n-greet at their own home (after all, these dogs are still PUPPIES!!! A 1 1/2 year old dog could be perfectly friendly and puppyish now and an aggressive, unpredictable b!tch -with hip dysplasia- after reaching social maturity... especially in a breed that is slow to mature). One whose dogs have PROVEN to have calm, stable, reliable temperaments through testing that actually puts them to the test. One whose dogs have been thoroughly health tested, whose ancestors generations back have been health tested and temperament tested. If the arguement here is that a puppy from a breeder with known parents is going to be safer than going through rescue, what's the difference when the dogs are from a BYB whose only qualifications are "purebred"? This is a breed that runs rampant with BYB's... BYB's can only get dogs from other BYB's... then those BYB's breed and sell to other BYB's... get it? Incidentally, there may or may not be some "police dogs" in their lines, maybe a good breeder here and there who did not follow up on a puppy, but in general the odds are not in favor of decent lineage. On top of that, it's a breed that is very prone to unstable temperaments, which can end very badly considering how powerful and protective these dogs naturally are.
The cheapest part of owning a dog is buying him... whether he's from a reputable breeder who asks $500-1000 for compensation or an accidental BYB who asks $100. That few hundred dollars does not compare to the risk that you're taking, or the assurance that you get from buying a puppy who has been brought into the world not by accident but by tons of effort, love, and dedication of an excellent, experienced breeder. In the end, peace of mind and a clean conscience, in addition to the relationship you will have with a reputable breeder and their dogs, is well worth a few hundred more dollars.
Trust me.... trust me... "purebred" and "friendly" parents does NOT tell the full story about a puppy and is a risk that you don't want to take, while supporting a BYB simultaneously. Gonzo had both of those, and his inherent temperament is far from stable. With constant training, prevention, and work, he is a nice dog. But not well bred in the least.
What would I do in the same situation??? I would wait, save up, and buy a puppy from a reputable breeder. One whose dogs don't just seem friendly during a breif meet-n-greet at their own home (after all, these dogs are still PUPPIES!!! A 1 1/2 year old dog could be perfectly friendly and puppyish now and an aggressive, unpredictable b!tch -with hip dysplasia- after reaching social maturity... especially in a breed that is slow to mature). One whose dogs have PROVEN to have calm, stable, reliable temperaments through testing that actually puts them to the test. One whose dogs have been thoroughly health tested, whose ancestors generations back have been health tested and temperament tested. If the arguement here is that a puppy from a breeder with known parents is going to be safer than going through rescue, what's the difference when the dogs are from a BYB whose only qualifications are "purebred"? This is a breed that runs rampant with BYB's... BYB's can only get dogs from other BYB's... then those BYB's breed and sell to other BYB's... get it? Incidentally, there may or may not be some "police dogs" in their lines, maybe a good breeder here and there who did not follow up on a puppy, but in general the odds are not in favor of decent lineage. On top of that, it's a breed that is very prone to unstable temperaments, which can end very badly considering how powerful and protective these dogs naturally are.
The cheapest part of owning a dog is buying him... whether he's from a reputable breeder who asks $500-1000 for compensation or an accidental BYB who asks $100. That few hundred dollars does not compare to the risk that you're taking, or the assurance that you get from buying a puppy who has been brought into the world not by accident but by tons of effort, love, and dedication of an excellent, experienced breeder. In the end, peace of mind and a clean conscience, in addition to the relationship you will have with a reputable breeder and their dogs, is well worth a few hundred more dollars.
Trust me.... trust me... "purebred" and "friendly" parents does NOT tell the full story about a puppy and is a risk that you don't want to take, while supporting a BYB simultaneously. Gonzo had both of those, and his inherent temperament is far from stable. With constant training, prevention, and work, he is a nice dog. But not well bred in the least.
Okay, jumping in head first.
I have a GSD, who is a resuce, like most of you know: Bella. She has issues. However, none are HEALTH wise (or that we've seen, yet). They're behaviour wise. Bella's from a BYB, or a puppy mill. Either way, not a good breeder. She's supposedly registered, but I know nothing of health tests that were done.
Now, I don't support BYBs, or Puppy Mills, and from my dogs, you should know that since learning about puppy mills after Zoey, I'm a "rescuer" now.
Bella's problems, in my opinion ARE NOT from her BYB history. They're from her jackass second owners, and the first who screw the hell out of her, mentally and physically (meaning she was thin when she came to me, and hadn't gotten the exercise she needed).
Now think, had I went out and BOUGHT Bella from a BYB, I may have had a normal puppy who I had a chance with to raise correctly, and set up so she could be a dog friendly dog. But, I got her from a rescue, so I got doomed to her issues.
All I'm saying is that sometimes, it's easier to start off with a dog who may come with some health issues rather then a dog who probably will come with behaviour issues.
The breeder to me, sounds like a hobby breeder. For all we know this man could have bought GSDs saying "I'm going to breed affordable GSDs who are good for pets, but wont have the same issues as most other GSDs that are affordable". And in MY dictionary, there's a difference between a Hobby breeder, who may breed because he loves the breed and wants to let others experience a good dog with out the expensive price tag you'd get on a well bred GSD, and a BYB is strictly in it for the money.
- And about Kenya and Fran. That was wrong. You guys may have said nothing rude about it, but the fact that a dogs health issues were brought up on the forum publicaly by someone who ISN'T HER OWNER is that's rude to me. That's something Fran should have been able to announce on the forum BY HERSELF. (Sorry to hear about that, Fran, but I know you'll do well by her).
I have a GSD, who is a resuce, like most of you know: Bella. She has issues. However, none are HEALTH wise (or that we've seen, yet). They're behaviour wise. Bella's from a BYB, or a puppy mill. Either way, not a good breeder. She's supposedly registered, but I know nothing of health tests that were done.
Now, I don't support BYBs, or Puppy Mills, and from my dogs, you should know that since learning about puppy mills after Zoey, I'm a "rescuer" now.
Bella's problems, in my opinion ARE NOT from her BYB history. They're from her jackass second owners, and the first who screw the hell out of her, mentally and physically (meaning she was thin when she came to me, and hadn't gotten the exercise she needed).
Now think, had I went out and BOUGHT Bella from a BYB, I may have had a normal puppy who I had a chance with to raise correctly, and set up so she could be a dog friendly dog. But, I got her from a rescue, so I got doomed to her issues.
All I'm saying is that sometimes, it's easier to start off with a dog who may come with some health issues rather then a dog who probably will come with behaviour issues.
The breeder to me, sounds like a hobby breeder. For all we know this man could have bought GSDs saying "I'm going to breed affordable GSDs who are good for pets, but wont have the same issues as most other GSDs that are affordable". And in MY dictionary, there's a difference between a Hobby breeder, who may breed because he loves the breed and wants to let others experience a good dog with out the expensive price tag you'd get on a well bred GSD, and a BYB is strictly in it for the money.
- And about Kenya and Fran. That was wrong. You guys may have said nothing rude about it, but the fact that a dogs health issues were brought up on the forum publicaly by someone who ISN'T HER OWNER is that's rude to me. That's something Fran should have been able to announce on the forum BY HERSELF. (Sorry to hear about that, Fran, but I know you'll do well by her).
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Having owned one rescue dog who had health issues which ended in his death, and one who had behavioral issues that ended in his death, I can say that BOTH are a HORRIFYING thing to deal with. I don't wish either upon anyone for ANY reason. My heart was broken, and continues to be broken each and every time I think of either of those dogs.
Sis, sorry to hear about that, but I'm saying, for some, it's easier to deal with a pup who may have some health issues rather then one who comes with behavioural issues. Some people are equiped with the money to take care of health issues, while some are equiped with the patience, and mind set to deal with DA, or a reactive dog.
So no update yet. Dude's still not home, he may have gone out of town and the parents aren't in the kennel any more so I guess he went out of town for a spell.
Will be checking back whenever I go out somewhere. To get pretty much anywhere in this town I have to drive right by his house, so I'll be checking back til I find him.
Will be checking back whenever I go out somewhere. To get pretty much anywhere in this town I have to drive right by his house, so I'll be checking back til I find him.
Doesn't everybody in the US have "an opportunity" to get a dog from a BYB? Look in the paper and online, down your street, by the side of the road, etc. They sell to anyone, oftentimes they don't have homes for all those puppies, but they didn't think about that before breeding though :dunno: Not sure what makes this so different than all the rest of excuses. It is like SSDD (same story, different day)