Bipolar...

Amber, I am very worried about you! I went through something very similar. It took him 3 years to start hitting but once he started, it was regular. I didn't actually mind the hitting, when he was hitting it meant he wasn't breaking me down emotionally.

He would call me names. Useless, stupid, inept. He would tell me no one liked me and he was the only man who would love me.

My advice is get away now while you still can. Before you are a shell. I nearly lost myself in that relationship. It damaged me so badly that I nearly lost Paul numerous times. Run before the damage is too great.

This.

I'm really not sure how to put in words what I want to say, but I'm going to try my best.

Amber, I know I haven't really posted in any of your other threads about Josh, but its only because I didnt want to step on any toes, or hurt your feelings or anything, but I noticed this change when you were in Georgia and he went back to VA. I don't know the dynamics of your and Josh's relationship but if your are second guessing your relationship, then thats really no relationship at all. You are a better person that this, and you DO NOT deserve this at all..

Same sort of experience, PD. Roger only took a swing at me three times -- and he'd have been gone long before he was except for my knowing that I would lose my job as soon as I pitched him out -- and weirdly, when he did punch me, it gave me back some of myself since I realized that his having to strike out at me like that was his own fear and weakness, not to mention the abject fear in his face when I got right back up. He's a big man, 6'6" and strong as an ox and when he connected it lifted me off my feet and threw me back into the wall. He wasn't expecting me to be able to get up for awhile.

I have every confidence that Charley would have tried beating me to break me if he hadn't known the dogs would never have allowed it.

It is a long road back from that kind of crap, though, and my best advice to anyone is to not let yourself be taken too far down it before you turn around.

Thank you so much guys. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. I want to give him the opportunity to seek help first and while I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to talk to him about it yet, I do love him and I feel like I owe it to our marriage to really try to make this work. I googled bipolar divorce and it looks like the divorce rate for marriages with a spouse that is bipolar is pretty high. I'm not saying that divorce will never be an option because if things don't start to change then it's a decision I'll need to consider... But there are marriages too with bipolar people that do work. The ultimate deciding factor is going to be him and whether he makes the decision to seek help or not. All I know is I can't keep living this way if it stays this bad or starts to get worse. It did help to get a PM from a bipolar member here describing dealing with life situations/stress/anger from a bipolar point of view. While it doesn't excuse his behavior, it did help me to understand how someone with bipolar perceives things and how their emotions are triggered by varying circumstances. Part of me is tempted to show him that PM, but at the same time I'm not sure how he will react to knowing I'm discussing it with someone especially with him being so much more moody lately. We are about to go finish the last minute touches on out taxes and since we owe quite a bit this year I have a feeling its going to put him in a downer mood for the remainder of the day.

I think the thing that worries me is that you *think* he has bipolar.

Please, do what you need to do - but don't look for answers for why he's treating you like this - there really is no excuse.

Amber, I'm just a phone call away if you need to vent!

Also, I tried to text you but I think I set it to the wrong number.

I was really a bit relieved to see this thread pop up, I went out on a limb and expressed my concerns in the other thread and I'm glad you are seeking help/realize there is a problem

but I've gotta agree with this.

Bipolar or no, reasons or no.. figuring out he is bipolar or EVEN him seeking treatment (which frankly, doesn't sound likely) isn't going to make him "better".. there is no miracle cure and I just feel like, having a reason doesn't make it OK for him to treat you this way and it doesn't make it wrong for you decide that enough is enough.

I am of the personal belief that..adhd, bipolar, taken over by aliens.. I don't care, there is no excuse for emotional abuse... Having a reason doesn't make it any easier or less hurtful and you are supposed to feel happy and cherished in a marriage. Especially with your anxiety to worry about, it's unhealthy :/
There are so many mediocre/unhappy/complicated things in life, love shouldn't be one of them.

You guys started off this marriage.. then he went away, then you were miserable, then you were unhappy when he came back, then how you feel now, the emotional abuse, the lack of sex life, the fighting.. I hate to say it but I feel like you were much happier before.

I understand that you love him but I just can't wrap my head around WHY. And maybe it's because I only know you and it's only one side but you deserve someone who is nice to you, and calls you beautiful every day, and wants to have sex and hold your hand and makes you feel comfortable and who would never even suggest getting rid of the dogs because he knows how much you love them and is loving and caring and kind and honest..

Call me naive but dammit Amber, you deserve to be somebody's Princess and I don't care what's wrong with him if he isn't doing that, it isn't your job to 'fix him' or 'save him' it's your job to enjoy your life.

I noticed you pulling away from the forum, your self esteem lowering, you seemed more anxious, bringing in new pets and really the only happiness we saw from the pets/the dogs... and dammit it just makes me mad!

I don't know what you should do or how you should make this decision.. but ((HUGS)) and know we are here for you.

Whatever you choose, I hope you find happiness.

I agree with this completely and think it needed repeating.

It may not be physical abuse but emotional abuse is just as bad imo.

I've dealt with this a lot with quite a few of my friends. One of them stayed with an emotionally and occasionally physically abuse boyfriend for 5 years. For 5 years she constantly made excuses for him about why he treated her like he did. We begged her for two years to leave him *as long as we had known her* She left beginning of last year and has been the happiest she has ever been.

Another friend of mine was named Sumner. Her guy had put her in the hospital before and then had been great for about three years. When she started working with us it started up again. We gave her a place to stay and hid her from him. But she had been with him so long and had lost herself there wasn't much we could do. She went back to him and he made them move so she would be away from us and we've never heard from her again.

While he is not physically abusing you he IS emotionally abusing you and no one deserves that. I know we don't know each other so if you feel like this advice is coming from someone you don't want it from just ignore it. The best advice I can give you is to set a deadline. 3 months or 6 months or something like that and say 'if I don't see improvement by this time I'm gone'. The biggest mistake my two friends I told you about made where they kept saying 'It'll get better'. If you keep doing that you'll lose important years of your life being miserable when you could have allowed yourself to be happy. I have seen it get better for people but you have to realize that sometimes it won't get better. I've read your threads but not given any advice or comments since we really haven't ever talked and I didn't want you to feel I was forcing my opinions on you.

For the people who say that there is no excuse, I don't disagree. That being said, mental disorders ARE overwhelming and some people need to fully understand their condition and receive counseling and a great deal of help in order to deal with it, and that includes managing reactions that are abnormal and unfair to others.

That said, Amber I care about you a lot and I really don't ever want to see you unhappy. I have to ditto Fran's post - you deserve to be cherished and treated well, and you have every right to pursue your own happiness if your husband refuses to get help. Personally, though, and this is just me... I'd offer him the chance, first, to get help and to prove to you that he actually gives a ****. Enough of a **** to learn how to put his own feelings aside sometimes for your sake, because living with someone who is bipolar is just as hard as being bipolar.

There is no miracle cure, no. That being said, some of you are acting like there is absolutely nothing that can be done, and that's pure and utter BS. Someone who is bipolar may always have some issues, but bipolar or not, if they care about another person, they will work on changing their behavior to make things easier on their SO. It's not easy, but it's worth it for love.

Just my .02.

I agree. I have a problem with over reaction and jumping to conclusions especially if I'm put on the spot.

That being said sometimes if I'm not SUPER careful I know I say things that can be hurtful and I immediately apologize *either then or when I realize it*.

But while I do have trouble sometimes with that and I don't always take my meds I would NEVER totally disregard someone I cared about's needs like he was doing in her thread about the car breaking down. The original options she had which was wait for an insane amount of time or walk was completely unacceptable as was his getting angry for her mentioning a taxi. I'm sorry it may pay for THEIR blls and they may be a couple where they consider it THEIR money the fact is still she's the only one with a consistent job and when it comes to her well being personally and professionally she is the one that should have the last say in how HER paycheck is being spent.

I don't mean to come off stand offish so I'm sorry if it seems that way

I've just had so many friends in horrible relationships that seeing someone in that sort of relationship really bugs me. I realize mental illnesses add a degree of challenge to a relationship but that should never ever excuse someone from treating their SO like that.

Amber, I applaude you for exploring all avenues to try to save your marriage before throwing in the towel. the key here is you KNOW what he is doing is wrong and I dont' think you are nessecarily making excuses for him but more HOPING that this is something that can be fixed or managed. Go see the counsellor, they will have some good advice for you and will help you and guide you in how to approach the subject with your husband.

I don't remember if you mentioned it or not and if I'm overstepping, I apologize... Do you have a church? A pastor to talk to? I know our Pastor is a great source for members of our church who have struggled in their relationships. Just an idea.

In the end though you have to do whatever is best for you whether that be a renewed relationship with your husband (provided he is willing to TRY) or leaving and starting anew. You can't FIX him but it's possible you can HELP him but he has to be willing to admit his faults and weaknesses and really want to change for himself and for you, to better himself. It's a journey that needs to be walked together though, one person can't hold it together on their own

If you ever need to talk I'm here for whatever... to listen, advice (although I don't know how good it will be lol), prayer... whatever

Amber, if you ever want to go see a movie, go to Dave & Buster's, or just go walk around DC, I'm a text/phone call away. I've only met Josh once, and during that one time I thought he was quite rude and disrespectful toward you, but I didn't think too much of it and was hoping he was just having a bad day. I think everyone has already given you some amazing advice, but just make sure you don't sacrifice your well-being in an attempt to "fix" him. You deserve to be happy.

Ask yourself this question, and be very honest. WHY do you want to save this.

You remember when I was with Paul, that English guy? And how just rollercoaster, up and down and exhausting that relationship was? This sounds similar. It's either his way or no way and he'll be a brat about until it happens. Then a bright spot will happen, something just enough to create that thought of "oh how I missed this, I'll put up with so much just for this." And then you're left wondering WTF has happened and when did you become ok with someone yanking you around by your emotions?

Anyone who puts down your job, especially when in a situation where that "stupid job" means you guys get to keep a roof over your head, needs a swift kick in the ass. I'm bipolar-ish and yeah, I"m not always the easiest person to be around or to deal with. Ted seriously has the patience of a saint. But I will never disparage someone's job. I've done the daycare/boarding thing and it is exhausting if you're doing it right. I lost 20lbs in 6 months when I was at my old boarding place in KC.

So (((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))) to you, go get counseling for yourself if nothing else. Maybe some marriages take more work than others but you shouldn't be miserable.

Puppydog... I've asked myself that question numerous times and the biggest reason I can come up with is that there's another side of him that really is caring. I've seen him go above and beyond for people and I've seen the person inside that he I feel he is truly capable of being. Maybe that's a BS reason to give it an honest shot... But right now it's that hope that keeps me trying to make this work. Obviously what its going to come down to is him ultimately wanting to change himself. If he doesn't change then at least I can say I gave this marriage an honest shot and move on with my life. I do like the idea of setting a timeframe though so I don't get caught up in an endless cycle of hoping for something that might not ever be the case. I made vows to love him in sickness and in health, for better or for worse. That doesn't mean I'm going to allow myself to suffer this the rest of my life if he doesn't try to change, but right now I'm trying to keep those vows the best I can given the circumstances.

I know it probably sounds batshit crazy for me to say that he can be an amazing person to be around sometimes given the negative side of him that I've posted about... But he honestly does have another side of him and thats the side of him that I fell in love with him. I know I need to accept the fact that for my own health and well being it may come down to me having to leave at some point... I'm just not quite ready to make that jump just yet without giving him the chance to prove me wrong.

Fran, you are so right when you say that I deserve to be called beautiful, have someone hold my hand, etc etc. Sometimes I don't think I deserve that kind of love, but I think its my insecurity that has me convinced at times that something is wrong with me and I'm inloveable. It kills me when we are around couples that clearly express love for one another. It really does. The only time we ever kiss is if one of us is going to work or when we are intimate. Just the other night my shoulder was killing me and I really wanted him to work out the tight muscles, but I couldn't even bring myself to ask him to do so because I thought it would be awkward for us... That's not normal.

I know he has a lot of his own crap going on. He didn't have a terrible upbringing necessarily but he did have his own trials when he was younger that he is still bitter about. For that he doesn't trust people much and he expects people to desert him at a moment's notice. I'm not making excuses for the way he acts since there really is no excuse, but in his own mind he still feels tortured by stuff from his past and he really let's it affect him a lot which could and probably does play some role in the way he reacts when he is angry.

Tanya, I used to go to a church out here. I haven't gone in a while because ive really pulled away from the church, partly because of this situation and partly because it bothers me how some of the people judge others. The counselor I'm meeting with does happen to go to that church though. She has known both me and Josh for a long time and she is one of the few people I've ever trusted to know every detail about some of the stuff I've been through in the past. She is one of those types of people that you can't help but open up to... in fact, I honestly think she is one of the few people josh might actually open up to if given the opportunity.

I actually would really like getting together with you again. I've been wanting to for quite a while. That day we went out for pizza was... Oy vey to say the least. I remember him hardly saying two words to you guys.

At the Pet EXPO with Cristy and Lilvati he pretty much left us to go hang out with people o work with instead of walk around and look at dog stuff. I know he isn't much into that stuff, but it would have been nice to have that support.

Counseling is your best course of action--IMO. We can only know what you post here--and truth is there are probably things that you can work on for yourself--that could have an impact on Josh (for the better). We all play a part in relationships--and sometimes both parties need to learn how to communicate better--I know there are many times I will remind my husband that it is the WAY he says something, more than the actual words. I try to remember that too -- so when I have something challenging to discuss, I really give thought to how I am saying it. It's not always pretty--but we figure it out.

Go to the counselor--step by step you will figure out the best course of action for you both.

What you say reminds me of past relationships I have been in. I didnt even think they were BAD looking back, I'm the way you describe. I do remember the lack of intimacy and interest my partner had in me... looking back now I know it was a 2 way street... but that feeling I remember well.

You try, and try, and try... because it seems a better option than leaving...

Then one day you meet someone who really LOVES you, and you realise how much time you wasted in the past just.. trying.

Having odd glimmers of a person you love just keeps the cycle going, and you dangling.

I remember having that boyfriend who wouldn't do things I enjoyed, or support me through things (i almost had to beg him to come to a family funeral once). The fact he didn't WANT to make me happy or support me spoke volumes about the relationship.

If it makes you feel better, we are friends still, but we clearly need different things from love.

Maybe you two do too....?

I don't think you're crazy for wanting to try and stick it out. You married him because you LOVE him. So why are you even considering staying and making it work... BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM.

I've seen bad things happen right in front of me and I still don't think you're crazy. I get it.

That said I think you are absolutely right to say it hinges on if he wants to get help or not.
(((((BIG HUGS))))))

This. A hundred times this.

Especially the last sentence.

We're here for you, Amber.