I thought we had progressed farther than this, at least.

But that is NOT a good example... its a pretty bad one. What did you try raw wise? Premade, home made? What did you put in it? Was it all animal matter, how much organ meat? etc etc

Saying 'raw' does not mean one thing. Any more than saying kibble is one thing. Ol Roy and Acana are VERY different.

It's natural for a canine to live outside... better put them out.

is it? Or do wild dogs find shelters?

I tried Primal premade raw.

They will find shelters. Natural ones.

So your example isn't a good one. That is like me saying I tried X kibble and it didn't agree with my dog so all kibbles are bad and I went back to raw...

That isnt' to say I disagree with what you did. I can see going to a kibble vs trying different raw makes. Its scary and difficult at times and kibble is easier. But your example is how ONE formulation of raw didn't agree with ONE cat. Its not even a decent data point.

All raw isn't created equally.

Constipation is generally caused by too much bone. It sounds like your cat's diet wasn't balanced properly.

Cats are obligate carnivores (meaning an all meat diet is what they truly need). It's pretty rare for cats to have issues with raw besides being finicky when it comes to getting them to eat it.

We could literally do this all day. I said my piece, I gave my sources (and their credentials).
I don't mind raw as a supplement but never as a diet. That's MY OPINION.
I appreciate all of your points of view and I do NOT want this to get heated so I'm done with this thread.

My dogs did TERRIBLE on Innova- diarrhea, gas... just horrible results. Taste of the Wild gives Rory diarrhea.

Northwest Naturals (premade raw) makes them throw up right after eating it.

Are both kibble and raw terrible for my dogs? Heck no.

Did these varieties just not work out for my dogs? Yep!

It happens, but it's not right to make a blanket statement that kibble and raw are bad!

I have to point out that, no, you did not give their credentials.

Jessie - Taste of the Wild the Pacific one? OMG worst dog gas EVER. I had to leave the living room because of Mu one time. Lol.

I don't see it as heated... just a discussion. As a scientist I find these sorts of convos interesting. Critical thinking and all that..

I have raised my litters on raw, and I also kept track and found my dogs did better (racing) when on fully raw diets than when on high quality kibble (acana, evo, orijen) Not that they did bad on kibble, they just did better on full raw. Dekka was fed raw (I do my own, no premade) all through her pregnancy and through raising the dekklets. Its not really an opinion that its an ideal diet for dogs. I will agree it might not be the ideal diet for people to feed, it does tend to take more research and effort than opening a bag of kibble and pouring.

Ok. I'll bite. I get the implication that kibble lovers are lazy or cheap.

YES!

Rory does best on fish based kibbles (when he's fed kibble), and it was just TERRIBLE!

lol then I am lazy or cheap.. I did point out I was currently feeding kibble :rofl1:

Uh, actually, raw tends to be cheaper than (high quality) kibble in most cases!

Atm its not for me.. it was significantly so in the past. I need to go network again, but with school its not the easiest at this time.

I guess I come from the mindset that-- as long as a person is feeding their dog then it's all good. People tend to humanize pets and prioritize them over themselves, their kids, their spouse. I feel very affronted by this. I love my dog don't get me wrong but i would not treat her as if she is human because she's not. She knows this.
I'm not poor, but I'm not wealthy. I do what I can. I can do Acana. I can do Orijen. I do not WANT to spend the money on raw. I don't want the germs. I don't want the risk of parasites or salmonella. I do not want urgent vet bills because my dog got a chicken leg stuck down her throat. I don't want to handle chicken hearts and livers.
Some people can only afford Pedigree. Are they bad people?? No. It's bullshit to say as much.
If you like raw so **** much you can come here and buy it for my dog.

Id you get crap raw heck ya it's cheaper.

WOW.. NO one here is saying that. If they are feeding pedigree and there is a costco in their area then ya they could be doing better (the kirkland brand is decent and CHEAP).

No one is humanizing them either. I don't get where you are saying that from. You seem very defensive and hostile. I mentioned *I* feed kibble at the moment. That doesnt' stop me from thinking raw is better. To assume one thing is better does not make the other 'bad'. It just makes it not as good. Is life ideal? rarely.

As I said I get not wanting the hassle, the germs (though I do wonder when people say that if they make their own food from scratch). I do wish people would worry less about salmonella, more dogs get sick from that from kibble than from raw (no sorry I can't find the study.. but it was a survey type study done..) No one is saying YOU should feed raw. What people ARE saying is that raw is a better diet for dogs (as in dogs in general)

sigh.. NO

I was getting human grade inspected turkey necks, chicken backs, pork necks/hocks etc and it was pretty cheap. I was part of a raw co-op.. buying power and all. I was feeding my 6 dogs for 1/2 the cost it would to feed them orijen.