Opening a can of worms, sorry

Dear Devil's advocate, and any who agreed with this, LOL

Doing a 'useful' job and taking a RISK is MUCH MUCH MUCH different IMO than the whole point being to see which dog can kick the other's a$$.

You take your dog hunting, you don't plan on him getting attacked........it *could* happen (and to you as well), but that isn't the plan. You train your dog for police work, he *could* get injured by a criminal (and the officer as well), but that is NOT the plan.

The plan behind fighting is just to fight, be attacked, and prove who has the best dog. It never did, and still doesn't serve any useful purpose other than entertainment to spectators. Entertainment in and of itself is not a bad thing, but it IS a bad thing at the price of pain and/or suffering of others (IE the dogs)

So yes, I will never compare hunting, police work, and other JOBS to fighting........and still would never be convinced anyone who loved their dog would willingly send it in to be attacked/fight. To whoever said 'love isn't flowers and dinner parties' (or something like that) I agree..........but that still has nothing to do with willingly sending your dog in to fight and claiming to love them.

And honestly, here of all places this whole conversation baffles me. Supporting dog fighting in the past "because the old timers were so different" when so many other things..........collars, food, all sorts of things are flamed and haggled over. I am so very confused at the moment, LOL

One thing I do want to say I agree with..........the dogs they left behind (as mentioned by others) is at least a bright spot in an otherwise nasty business. I can't say the ends justify the means, but at least *something* good came out of all that.

I don't think the old men fought their dogs with the intention of perfecting their breed. Hopefully there were exceptions, but their dogs were being used as extentions of their egos: it was about pride, but I don't see anything noble in watching your dog beat the **** out of another while you stand on the sidelines and reap the benefits. Rules and organization might make it easier to accept, but also harder to see the cowardice that is hiding under the disguise of the good-old-days, when everything was supposedly done the right way.

The silver lining is the pit bulls we have today. Their history is something we can look back on and learn from, but the people I could never admire.

Do you have firsthand knowledge of this? Have you spoken to and ASKED those oldtimes exactly what they thought?

And MY ego has nothing to do with any of this. I love my dogs for what they are, not for what they can do for me or for the recognition they bring to me.

In terms of pride, I take pride in the breed and pride in the dogs. I don't take pride in myself for owning them. I guess us APBT owners are just all supposed to be bleeding-hearts that want them all spayed and neutered and eventually eradicated so they can no longer be abused at the hands of the vicious people that own them? Sounds awfully familiar to me...................

And before someone throws out "well, weight pulling is a good sport....blah blah blah", it is nothing to the breed but a good hobby to do with your dog. ANY breed and mix of breed can participate in weight pull and many can outpull the APBT. So it's laughable and someone sad that many now consider such an activity to be a basis/standard for breeding a working dog.

Have you?
Or pops, or Renee or Breeze?

Can you tell us what they thought? I get that they loved their dogs. But can you tell us why they fought them? What they were looking to gain from fighting them?

How can you be soooo in love with a breed but hate the originators?

. The result of their efforts is a strong and beautiful dog, but fighting two dogs together will never be ok in my book. Not then, not now, nor in the future.

Have you?
Or pops, or Renee or Breeze?

Can you tell us what they thought? I get that they loved their dogs. But can you tell us why they fought them? What they were looking to gain from fighting them?

I did read that one, but didn't project that it meant he participates in matches in the present.

I've talked to quite a few of the last generation of dog men and it really is educational. They aren't what you expect at all, and have a wealth of information for anyone who loves the breed. You don't have to agree with the old methods -- and most of us can't even conceive of watching our dogs fight and get hurt -- but it was a different time and they were the product of that different time.

Frankly, I'd love a chance to sit down with some of the old names and get their stories -- and perhaps write them. (I'd love to sit down with the old moonshiners too.) There are so many reasons they should never be forgotten, BUT that doesn't mean we have to repeat them -- to the contrary, they should be documented and remembered so that they are NOT repeated.

And no, the modern dog fighters we hear about on the news, etc., aren't related in any way, shape or form to the historical game dog breeders, nor are their dogs anything like, and no one condemns the new thugs any more harshly than the old guys. They probably recognize the threat better than anyone.

I'm glad those times are [mostly] past; but they happened and it would be stupid not to learn from them.

Thanks, Pops That's exactly the way I hear the old timers talk, usually they start getting all misty eyed -- even seen one or two shed a tear -- remembering some of their dogs, who generally died at a ripe old age. Regardless of how we or anyone want to judge or believe, they DID love their dogs -- and they still do, and when some grizzled old veteran dog owner stops me to look at Tallulah and rub her head, and she responds happily, or when I think of Miakoda and her heroism, or Ella, or see one of Marty's photos of Lilbit, I'm pretty **** grateful for the dogs they've bequeathed us.

Is there a way you could depict your interpretation of the thread more fully?

I think that any admirer of a breed should make themselves aware of the history. However, that does not mean that I will sit in starry-eyed wonder at men that matched their dogs with the specific intention of fighting them--whether it be for sport, entertainment, money, pride, legal or illegal. It amazes me that people can have issues with dogs being trained as police dogs but not be all that bothered by dogs being deliberately sent to fight each other in the name of "breed development."

Read closer.

Bait dogs, Pix, are a modern invention as far as I've ever been aware -- they seem to have been dreamed up by HSUS in one of their propaganda campaigns way back, giving the thugs yet another outlet for their savagery.