To all the Christian Chazzers...

Laurelin

I'm All Ears
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
30,963
Likes
3
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Oklahoma
#61
Actually, I only saw the one comment and I didn't believe it to be that rude, but oh well, what do I know?

Keeping my personal religion out of this if I saw a thread titled to all the ___(Insert random belief system that is not mine)___ Chazzers that discussed theology, I wouldn't feel the need to respond. I might read it to learn more, but I wouldn't sit there and debate them about it.

I don't have a problem with people believing or not believing in a certain god. I certainly don't think it makes them morons either.

I think the OP simply menat to ask others of her own religion what they thought about a certain teaching, which I don't see a problem with. I also don't see a problem with others throwing in a respectful opinion. It's when people start getting nasty that things go down hill. And this comes from BOTH sides. (Which neither side seems to admit that they are too playing a role in this problem)

Okay, off of soapbox.

Anyway,s enjoying GO and Puck's discussion. GO, you've made me once again realize why I am no longer a science major. Science is not my strong suit lol. ;)
 

Sush

New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
822
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca
#62
Wow, I havnt logged in for a day and my thread blew up! I have to go out to eat right now but when I get back I look forward to reading all the replies!! It sounds like it turned into some kind of debate. How did I not see that comming...
 

GlassOnion

Thanks, and Gig 'em.
Joined
Oct 29, 2005
Messages
9,065
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Tejas
#64
Ack, give me a second. Ok here goes...


Ok.. But in Nomadic times, do you think they still wept when loved ones died? Do you think ancient man had the same feelings we do?
Of course, why wouldn't they? Someone dies that you had a bond to and you get depressed once you realize they're gone. The bond is created by conditioning of being around them and you get the feel good part and then when they're gone, you get the other release that makes you feel bad. As to where the first human got the first release (which I think is what you're trying to ask) is from the monkeys, from where they got it, their descendants. That's evolution. It's not a spontaneous 'Here's everything at once!', it's a gradual introduction of some new part of the whole every generation.

All I have ever read in recorded history tells me man has always had a conscience, an idea of what is right and wrong... Good or evil. IMHO, all sane people just KNOW deep inside what is right and what is wrong. People tend to reason their way around their gut when what they want goes against what their conscience is telling them. I doubt science will ever be able to really explain that.
Yes but to each person that definition of good and evil differs. To the majority it's the Christian way, as that's what we've been taught then we expand upon that as we get older. It's just innate. You were raised that way and you only differ if you want to. That's why I will raise my kids Christian because I think it's a good set of values (that and the social aspect of it) but still present evolution as the way it really is, if that makes sense. I like Christianities morals but the God part? No.

Sure, somebody will write up some stuff and it will be accepted because people WANT to accept it, but it does not make it any less true.
Is that not what the bible is, though? Someone, somewhere sat over a desk, snickering to himself, going "man people are going to LOVE this!" A pre-decessor of J.K. Rowling, maybe.

I believe that "gut feeling" is proof of the immortal human soul. it will never be explained in a scientific way that will make most happy, but thats fine. Do not take this to mean that I do not understand science, I am college educated and all that, but my life experince has just allowed me to see things in a MUCH different way than you will ever find in a text book.
And my life experiences have shown me that a God cannot exist. And if he does, he has some explaining to do.


GO my friend... My faith does not ensalve me, it sets me FREE. MEN, PEOPLE, have distorted the Word and used it for THEIR purposes, not His. Stop looking at just the negative things MEN have done in the exploitation of Christianity. (BP... This means you too....) Look at all the great things that have come from it. You will not find these things in any type of main stream media or text book. Ever wonder why? Perhaps we are not the ones "under mind control", eh? LOL
Actually I don't look at just the negatives (though they are a huge part of it, how can you ignore them?) and I don't bother with main stream media either. It's just another way to control the masses. And I don't see how it can set you free when you have a very clear, strict set of guide lines that you MUST follow if you're ever to hope to get to Heaven. For most people they want to follow the guide lines and have no problems with it, but the fact that they're there is still a method of controlling people. Thus someone, somewhere went "man, how do we make the peasants content with their life? Ooh I got an idea..."

I've already touched on the good things Christianity has done. I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing that the reason for Christianity exists.

But in the end, I simply refuse to believe that this amazingly awesome and complex world is just a one in a trillion lucky throw of the dice. To me, that is simply illogical.
True, but if that one in a trillion throw of the dice hadn't of happened, we wouldn't be here to contemplate it. And I'll agree that it's amazingly awesome and complex, but it's amazingly structured and complex. The structure, like Rome, was not built in a day, more of over hundreds of millions of years.


That is BIG if man... It is going to be a whopper to explain how you get something from nothing. A like I said above... "Explaining" the big bang will only reveal something else we don't know.
Only as big an if as God is. And yes, it will indeed be a whopper, which makes it all the more interesting (and me all the more depressed that I won't be able to know how it works out. If there's any sole reason for me to believe in a god it would be just on the off chance that I would be able to see how things turn out after I'm gone). And once we do explain it, there will be more questions, of course. But I don't think the solution is to simply say "God did it!" I think there's a logical explanation for everything out there and we will find it eventually. It may very well be the end of us if Membrane Theory is correct (when we try to duplicate it), but we'll most likely find it.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
10,119
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
wasilla alaska
#66
I am a horrible chistian, and I cant say they do.
I believe dogs have souls. How can you have a relationship with an animal and not believe it has a soul?
Dogs prove humans have souls, at least some of us.
Im still not sure if they actually do.
____________________________________________
GOD wouldn't allow dogs to be banned from Heaven. After all,
HE created them to be man's companions in life, why would he
separate them in death?"

Author Earl Hamner
The Twilight Zone


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"You think dogs will not be in heaven?
I tell you, they will be there long before any of us."
Robert Louis Stevenson
I still dont know if they have souls as we do, but I agree with the above.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#67
Okay . . . the Beatitudes . . . "blessed are the peacemakers." I could use a little blessing right now so I'm going to attempt a little peacemaking . . .

Puck, you got a bit overwrought there over Nikki's comments and they weren't directed your way. Thanks for this, though:
I too wish people (myself included) could be more nice to those that don't believe in God. You are right about that. It does us no good as He is ALL about love.

Thanks for the eye opener.
So . . . you and Nikki are really on the same side - you both just kind of missed that . . . sorta like some of the run-ins you and I used to have until we figured out that we were expressing very much the same sentiments, just from different perspectives ;)

So - and this really goes for everyone - be gentle with each other out here :)

Don't make me come after you! :p
 

Sush

New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
822
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca
#68
Wow, I respect the opinions of everyone. There is no way everyone would agree on such a topic, I basically wanted to know if it was made clear somewhere in the bible and I think Tosca's mom gave me a convincing quote so I'm off to a good start :)
 

Boemy

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
2,481
Likes
0
Points
0
#70
James Herriot's story "The Card over the Bed" addresses the dog/afterlife question very well, I thought. I would post it but I can't find my book . . .
 

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#71
Of course, why wouldn't they? Someone dies that you had a bond to and you get depressed once you realize they're gone. The bond is created by conditioning of being around them and you get the feel good part and then when they're gone, you get the other release that makes you feel bad. As to where the first human got the first release (which I think is what you're trying to ask) is from the monkeys, from where they got it, their descendants. That's evolution. It's not a spontaneous 'Here's everything at once!', it's a gradual introduction of some new part of the whole every generation.
I still do not think that explains why evolution would provide something so counter productive to it's most basic rules. You are telling me how it might have happened, but not why.


Yes but to each person that definition of good and evil differs.
Does it really? I don't think so. I believe all people know what is good and what is evil. Just some people reason their way around doing things that are evil.

Is that not what the bible is, though? Someone, somewhere sat over a desk, snickering to himself, going "man people are going to LOVE this!"
But it was not just one person. It was many people, over millenia, inspired by God.

And my life experiences have shown me that a God cannot exist. And if he does, he has some explaining to do.
For the sake of time I am going to assume you mean "why does God let bad things happen".

Free will. He loves us so much that he is willing to let us live our lives as we choose to. We make choices, some of them bad, some of them good but all with consequences. As for disease and the like... Well, we are warned that the wages of sin is death... How, when and why is up in the air.

People love to blame God when bad things happen. Odd that they cannot praise Him for the good things.




Actually I don't look at just the negatives (though they are a huge part of it, how can you ignore them?)
I don't ignore them, but I do consider the source. The flesh is weak my friend.

For most people they want to follow the guide lines and have no problems with it, but the fact that they're there is still a method of controlling people.
I'd rather live by God's laws than our governments. How bout' you?



I'll say a few more things later.... I just looked at the clock and I am going to be late!!! lol GO, the devil is using you!!!

;) :lol-sign:

J/K Thanks for the chat and I look forward to more.

later
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
227
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
washington
#72
There is alot of truth to the saying-'The Truth Shall Set You Free' reguardless of what a persons organized belief system is.'Do Good Unto All':)
 
Last edited:

GlassOnion

Thanks, and Gig 'em.
Joined
Oct 29, 2005
Messages
9,065
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Tejas
#73
I still do not think that explains why evolution would provide something so counter productive to it's most basic rules. You are telling me how it might have happened, but not why.
I already explained the why of it. Because we have the time and resources. And such a bond is beneficial be it a parasitic 'bond' or a symbiotic bond.

I'm not quite sure where the confusion is. The bonds are beneficial and those with the bond (ability to watch each others backs against predators, for example) survive and those that don't have them don't have as great of fitness. That's evolution.

Does it really? I don't think so. I believe all people know what is good and what is evil. Just some people reason their way around doing things that are evil.
Well that's just a personal belief. I think each person has their own definition of good and evil. The Islamic think that good is purging the world of Christians. It's what they've been taught as they grow up and so it's what they know as 'good' where as the 'evil' is what Christianity stands for to them. Now naturally their definition of good and evil is different from yours but it's still theirs'.

But it was not just one person. It was many people, over millenia, inspired by God.
I'll agree that it was many people but I think they were inspired by greed and power, not god.

For the sake of time I am going to assume you mean "why does God let bad things happen".

Free will. He loves us so much that he is willing to let us live our lives as we choose to. We make choices, some of them bad, some of them good but all with consequences. As for disease and the like... Well, we are warned that the wages of sin is death... How, when and why is up in the air.

People love to blame God when bad things happen. Odd that they cannot praise Him for the good things.
I don't have an argument for this. This is one of those things that are simply that you'll see it one way and I'll see it another. Agree to disagree.

I'd rather live by God's laws than our governments. How bout' you?
I think that 'God's' laws are good and one we should all follow. The Government's laws are there to pick up those that aren't quite so virtuous. Unfortunately those that they're there to prevent are the very ones making them.
 

Sush

New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
822
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca
#75
Puck and GO...I admire your words throughout this thread. I have to admit this did turn into an interesting and educating debate. Puck, I'd be interested to know what you think about the original topic though...animals having souls.

I also want to thank everyone for their input (even non-believers who put in there 2 cents...or 4 cents...or dollars). It was directed at the Christian Chazzers on the board, but like all threads, everyone is welcome.
 

M&M's Mommy

Owned by 3 mutts
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
4,295
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
The Golden State
#76
My boyfriend and I, who are both christians, somehow found ourselves discussing whether dogs have souls...eternal spirits? What does the bible say about this kind of thing? Everything in me says they DEFINATELY DO but he disagrees, saying that is how humans are seperated from "the beast." Thoughts?
I haven't logged in since last Friday, so I'm not sure if you guys still stay on the subject, or have already been off to weirdland :p.

Anyway, I was to type a rather long answer to your question, but then I found this, and realized that I could never word it any better.

So, here're "my" two cents :eek:. Hopefully it's not wayyyyyy too off based with what had been discussed.

*Off to read this thread*
 

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#77
Puck, I'd be interested to know what you think about the original topic though...animals having souls.
Well, I honestly cannot say for sure. I need to do a little research and some personal soul searching.

Lets just say I hope so. I want to play fetch with Teddy again some day.
 

Saje

Island dweller
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
23,932
Likes
1
Points
38
#78
All I have to do is look in an animals eyes and I can see they have a soul. What that means for Christianity ... I don't know.
 

Sush

New Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
822
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca
#79
Saje, I know :) That's why I had such a hard time dealing with my boyfriend kinda laughing at me when I said that Sage had sucha sweet soul. I can't see how it could be possible for them not too, they have such different personalities...they have feelings, emotions..where does that come from? I guess I grew up with the thought that "All Dogs Go To Heaven" or maybe I just watched that movie too much :)
 

goldiefur

New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
1,216
Likes
0
Points
0
#80
I hope everyone will read this even the non believers: :)

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/animals.htm

I was raised with the bible and was ALWAYS taught that in HEAVEN even little children will be able to sit with the lions. Heaven is PARADISE! Would it be paradise without ALL of the animals? If you read the bible you will find the answer for everything you need to know. There will be trees, rivers, mountains, and yes even ANIMALS in Heaven. GOD gave us all the animals on earth to help us and he expects us to take care of all of them and treat them well.

I urge everyone to read the bible all of the answers are there and even descriptions of what HEAVEN will be like.:)
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top