The (New) War to End All Wars.

[Herschel]

Our war in Iraq has lasted longer (in days) than either World War I or World War II.

Financially, it will cost:
-10 times as much as the first Gulf War
-30% more than Vietnam
-More than double the cost of the Korean War
-Twice as much as World War I
-$400,000 per troop
-$12,500,000,000 per month

In lives:
-At least 4,000 US soldiers
-Since the end of "Shock and Awe": 3,835
-Since the capture of Ssadam Hussein: 3,513
-Over 1,000,000 Iraqis

It was supposed to cost $200,000,000,000 total. It wasn't supposed to last 5+ years. We (the people) haven't faced the costs yet because the government is borrowing money from China to finance all of this--so the worst is still to come.

This is really sobering.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

This isn't about a political candidate or party affiliation. This is about us. We let this happen.

 

[puppydog]

Indeed. War is one hell of a money maker too. Just look who has fingers in the pies of all the weapons manufacturing plants.

 

[RD]

I hate war.

 

[skittledoo]

my step dad is out there...

... I miss him

 

[Puckstop31]

It does need to end. I am with ya that it could have been done cheaper and much faster... To hell with Bushco for that.

But it needs to end with us being seen as the "winners". If it is portrayed as if we are running away (as our ephing media is certain to do), the value to the enemy will be immeasurable. That is the part nobody ever seems to grasp. After our PM's, I would hope you realize that.

Now, One MILLION Iraqis? Where did you get that number from? No way it can even be close to that. If it were, the PILES of bodies would be all over the news.

And spare me your care about our troops. You cannot even fathom what it means to be a warrior. If only they would really turn them loose. OUR casualties would be MUCH lower.

 

[puppydog]

There are definately two sides to every story. I do agree that "running away" would be a bad thing. But to me (and I know very little about this) it looks like the west have already won.

 

[Herschel]

It does need to end. I am with ya that it could have been done cheaper and much faster... To hell with Bushco for that.

But it needs to end with us being seen as the "winners". If it is portrayed as if we are running away (as our ephing media is certain to do), the value to the enemy will be immeasurable. That is the part nobody ever seems to grasp. After our PM's, I would hope you realize that.

This has nothing to do with us being the winner. This has to do with us completely revamping our foreign policy and national security. Security starts at home. (Did you miss the article that says that ~70% of "fake" bombs by TSA inspectors weren't caught in major airports? Did you forget about our unsecured borders? What about our coastal ports?) We can't save face. We screwed up. None of the spin from the White House or the media is going to make this the humanitarian story of the century. It needs to end--now.

Now, One MILLION Iraqis? Where did you get that number from? No way it can even be close to that. If it were, the PILES of bodies would be all over the news.

At least. According to Johns Hopkins, it was 650,000 as of October 2006. You need to include direct deaths (admitted by the administration to be 50,000 by 10/2006) and the deaths from the civil war we have created.

Do you know anyone that lives in Iraq or has family in Iraq? Why have they all fled to Jordan if things are so safe?

And spare me your care about our troops. You cannot even fathom what it means to be a warrior. If only they would really turn them loose. OUR casualties would be MUCH lower.

Apparently, since I have never been a dog, I can't even fathom what it means to be a dog. Therefore, I should also spare you my care for dogs. Warriors? They have turned them loose. Check out that thread in the Dog News section.

I have incredible respect for our military--but I would prefer to have them protecting our country rather than destroying others.

 

[HoundedByHounds]

They have turned them loose. Check out that thread in the Dog News section.

Wow...I'm about as far from ooh rah as it gets and this bit really is offensive to everyone serving. You are a piece of work, Hersh.

 

[noludoru]

Wow...I'm about as far from ooh rah as it gets and this bit really is offensive to everyone serving. You are a piece of work, Hersh.

Ditto. Unbelievably offensive.

 

[RD]

x3. Is that really what you think, Herschel? Obviously you don't know many people serving...

=/

 

[Laurelin]

There are bad people in all walks of life. I personally know many people in the armed forces and they are great people that do not need to be lumped in with those monsters in that video.

It really is offensive.

 

[JennSLK]

Wow Hersh. Thats racist. just because a couple people do something horific doesnt meen they all do

 

[Dakotah]

I dont really know what to say about this.
But I will say this... Charla's BFF lost her brother in Iraq. Its horrible to lose someone in a war. I do believe that there were that many Iraqis killed and more to come. I do believe that there will be more US soldiers killed. I pray for all the families who have and possibly will lose family.

(Hopefully this thread don't turn into a political debate... like the Dog story....)

 

[HoundedByHounds]

I think intent of the thread is to discuss/debate the war...which does have political aspects of course.

What's come out of it tho...glaringly to me at least...is someone's inability to separate the actions of a few or a single person...from those of a large, varied group of people with their own minds, morals, and ethics.

 

[Whisper]

Wow. I can't stand war. I know people that are serving, I know someone who is mentally and physically scarred for life. I despise it. But that was a step below what I considered anyone saying in this thread. How offensive. You can't paint the details of individuals and their character with a 12 inch roller.

 

[hanslynch]

This war like all wars will end

This "war" in Iraq will end like all others have ended. Wars of any duration are always difficult to conduct in a democracy.

This war, especially at this point is not about turning our soldiers loose, it is about reconstruction, bringing the Sunnis and Shites together.

"War is the continuation of politics by other means" - Von Clauswitz and that is certainly the case here.

Once it is over we will eventually be able to drastically reduce our presence in that part of the world. We will be able to have small HQs in Baharain and Qatar where they are happy to have us and we will be able to significantly reduce our presence in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Jules]

What a sh!tbag comment. If only everything would be as black and white as it must be in your world. I guess it would be a whole lot easier.

 

[Beanie]

Wow Hersh. Thats racist. just because a couple people do something horific doesnt meen they all do

"Military" isn't a race.

 

[Puckstop31]

Looks like Mr. "know it all" stepped in it and outed himself. Nice Work.


Civil War WE caused? Of course you are a history expert, on top of knowing everything else. So of course you understand how modern Iraq came to be? No matter what, today or years from now... When Saddam went, the result was inevitable. Not unlike what happened in the Balkans after Tito passed.

Hersh... Dude... NObody likes a know it all. Even if you DO know it all, you need to work on your delivery.

Also, your comment about our forces does not bother me one bit. I consider the source. You are quite simply the type who could NEVER do what they do. There are some things you will never understand until you are on the pointy end of the stick. For better or worse, I have been there several times.

 

[Herschel]

Also, your comment about our forces does not bother me one bit. I consider the source. You are quite simply the type who could NEVER do what they do.

That's fine. And a lot of them couldn't do what I do.

For all of the " that is offensive" bandwagon jumpers, go back and read the original post. Then read Puck's comment about "letting the warriors loose" as if they are animals. Then understand the sarcasm in my reply when referring to "letting the warriors loose". These people are meant to protect our country--not to be "unleashed" or "let loose" on other people. Seriously. What the heck? If you can't respect soldiers for the service that they provide for our country, then YOU are the ones that are horribly offensive. They are not killing machines, they should NOT be deployed for aggressive nation building, and they definitely don't need to be "let loose".

To the person that called me racist. I don't even know how to respond.

x3. Is that really what you think, Herschel? Obviously you don't know many people serving...=/

What are you referring to? Please read my posts in this thread carefully before you respond.