Shock Collars
- Thread starter Mutt Luv
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I DO, want to change the situation, but as of now its not bad anymore, he isnt barking and its not cold out. When it WAS cold and barking alot I tryed hard with my parents trying to convince them, you people just DONT get it, and no matter what I say you wont, so I'm about done with this post and board alltogether, all you can do is BASH, no one is really helping, I cant bring the dog in, how can I stop the barking with out a shock? No one is helping thats why the shock collar is here now, cuz I was only getting bashes prior to sat. NO help.
Thats why I said with our temps lately it is secondary, he is acclimated.
I see you have adapted to part of the problem, either that or you've solved it, unless he is wearing the shock collar all night.
There is still the question of the fact that your dad was willing to hold your dog down to tape his snout and you made exuses for it, what does that say about you?
I see you have adapted to part of the problem, either that or you've solved it, unless he is wearing the shock collar all night.
There is still the question of the fact that your dad was willing to hold your dog down to tape his snout and you made exuses for it, what does that say about you?
Allot of people offerred advice to avoid the shock collar, because it didnt fit with how you presented your situation you call that bashing and no help?
After hearing more about your situation and your parents unwillingness to change, people still offerred advice that would better your dogs well being. You dismiss the advice and excuse your fathers behaviour, I can see how that would be being unhelpful.
As long as you keep making sure he dosent bark in the mornings, something you could have done to avoid the shock collar to begin with, you could convince you parents the collar was a waste of money.
After hearing more about your situation and your parents unwillingness to change, people still offerred advice that would better your dogs well being. You dismiss the advice and excuse your fathers behaviour, I can see how that would be being unhelpful.
As long as you keep making sure he dosent bark in the mornings, something you could have done to avoid the shock collar to begin with, you could convince you parents the collar was a waste of money.
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Mutt luv. I am not bashing you for not being able to bring your dog in. I am not bashing you for your father's mistreatment of the dog. I, for one am not bashing you for not being the one who gets to decide these things. The only thing I am critical of...and you can call it bashing if you wish, is that if the dog is being beaten, shocked, muzzle taped and being kept out at night in severe cold (all beyone your control, I understand) then the fair thing to do, the humane thing to do would be to re-home the dog. I realize that of course, you love your dog and don't want to part with him. Sometimes the strongest love involves being so giving that you deprive yourself.
Now, if there were something to do to humanely stop the dog from barking at night when outside alone, I think people, experienced dog people here have wracked their brains trying to come up with something. I know I have. I know something about training dogs and I honestly can't think of anything under these circumstances. You'd have to be outside with him all night. It's impossible to train a dog when you're not right there. Unless, of course you shock him with electricity. Well, that, to me is unacceptable and inhumane and it more often than not causes some disasterous consequences. The only other thing I can think of at the moment is finding a friend who would consider having him sleep in her room over night. Maybe someone else would let him visit over night or sleep in a warmer barn which is enclosed. Still pretty lonely, but at least he'd be warmer and not being beaten.
I still wonder what your father plans on doing with the sled dog team who is barking all night long.
If I came across as "bashing," then all I can say I guess, is that when I read about animal abuse, it just about turns my stomach. And when that happens, I tend to get cranky.
You can call it bashing. Anyone can call it bashing, but my opinion is still....that if the barking can not be stopped humanely, if the dog is going to continually be abused by your father, then the only moral thing to do would be to re-home the dog. And I see that you have no intention of doing so.
In that case, lest someone else comes up with some brilliant remedy, I guess that's it. People will do what they're going to do.
I feel concern for puppies that you're bringing into your home. Puppies are far more annoying than an adult dog barking. What's your father going to do to the puppies when they do puppy things? I wonder about the wisdom of bringing puppies into your home under the circumstances...just something else to think about.
Now, if there were something to do to humanely stop the dog from barking at night when outside alone, I think people, experienced dog people here have wracked their brains trying to come up with something. I know I have. I know something about training dogs and I honestly can't think of anything under these circumstances. You'd have to be outside with him all night. It's impossible to train a dog when you're not right there. Unless, of course you shock him with electricity. Well, that, to me is unacceptable and inhumane and it more often than not causes some disasterous consequences. The only other thing I can think of at the moment is finding a friend who would consider having him sleep in her room over night. Maybe someone else would let him visit over night or sleep in a warmer barn which is enclosed. Still pretty lonely, but at least he'd be warmer and not being beaten.
I still wonder what your father plans on doing with the sled dog team who is barking all night long.
If I came across as "bashing," then all I can say I guess, is that when I read about animal abuse, it just about turns my stomach. And when that happens, I tend to get cranky.
You can call it bashing. Anyone can call it bashing, but my opinion is still....that if the barking can not be stopped humanely, if the dog is going to continually be abused by your father, then the only moral thing to do would be to re-home the dog. And I see that you have no intention of doing so.
In that case, lest someone else comes up with some brilliant remedy, I guess that's it. People will do what they're going to do.
I feel concern for puppies that you're bringing into your home. Puppies are far more annoying than an adult dog barking. What's your father going to do to the puppies when they do puppy things? I wonder about the wisdom of bringing puppies into your home under the circumstances...just something else to think about.
This really stands out to me. No one is helping, only getting bashes, NO help. Hmmmm. Very interesting. What kind of help do you want? I can tell you how to train a dog to stop barking without the use of a shock collar. Would you like to to have me type it out? I'm more than willing. Will you be willing to sleep outside in the kennel with your dog? Will your parents be willing to let you sleep outside with the dog or will they and will they follow instructions? Let me know and I'll tell you how exactly to go about stopping the barking in a way which won't ruin your dog. You do have to be present to train a dog.
Other than training help, what other help did you have in mind? There was the suggestion made about sound proofing, insulating and heating your kennel? Would you or your parents be willing to build that?
I forget the other suggestions, but I'm pretty sure there were several.
What other help could we give you. We want to help. Other than what has been offered, without much graciousness on your part, I think we'd have to be God to be able to help you, your father and your dog. Like I said, I've wracked my brain to try and come up with a solution that would work for you. But each and every suggestion made to date, has been unacceptable to you. When it wasn't unacceptable to you, it was to your parents (not your fault, your parents...granted) What do you want? Not to be bashed for going along with animal abuse. Sorry...if you don't do something to save your dog, then I have no other choice. I just don't have the stomach for animal abuse or for excuses for it or for holding onto a dog so that it continues to be abused. And I can be fairly certain that if someone can do those things you described your father doing, I can be fairly sure it will happen again, if not this dog, then another or those puppies you are "rescuing." You may not hurt them, but what about your father? Wow...if that rescue organization only knew.
Other than training help, what other help did you have in mind? There was the suggestion made about sound proofing, insulating and heating your kennel? Would you or your parents be willing to build that?
I forget the other suggestions, but I'm pretty sure there were several.
What other help could we give you. We want to help. Other than what has been offered, without much graciousness on your part, I think we'd have to be God to be able to help you, your father and your dog. Like I said, I've wracked my brain to try and come up with a solution that would work for you. But each and every suggestion made to date, has been unacceptable to you. When it wasn't unacceptable to you, it was to your parents (not your fault, your parents...granted) What do you want? Not to be bashed for going along with animal abuse. Sorry...if you don't do something to save your dog, then I have no other choice. I just don't have the stomach for animal abuse or for excuses for it or for holding onto a dog so that it continues to be abused. And I can be fairly certain that if someone can do those things you described your father doing, I can be fairly sure it will happen again, if not this dog, then another or those puppies you are "rescuing." You may not hurt them, but what about your father? Wow...if that rescue organization only knew.
Ouch.
Not bad at all. Just -30. Ouch again.
Are you going to get bark collars for all of the little puppies this summer? How in the world are you going to convince your father to let you bring them inside?
Did you present the argument to your parents that having the dog inside, in a crate, is humane and would cost far less than buying a shock collar?
By the way, what kind of collar is it? Have you put it on your neck and tried to to make sure it isn't too severe? (Seriously)
We've tried to help. You just haven't responded to our comments!
Not bad at all. Just -30. Ouch again.
Are you going to get bark collars for all of the little puppies this summer? How in the world are you going to convince your father to let you bring them inside?
Did you present the argument to your parents that having the dog inside, in a crate, is humane and would cost far less than buying a shock collar?
By the way, what kind of collar is it? Have you put it on your neck and tried to to make sure it isn't too severe? (Seriously)
We've tried to help. You just haven't responded to our comments!
Uuuuuhhhh, what? If dogs are supposed to sleep outside, why would the foster puppies be allowed inside? How could you let puppies stay inside while Rosco has to stay outside? That just seems wrong! Before you bring in more dogs, you should get the issues worked out with your current dog. How is your dad going to treat the puppies? Puppies bark and nip and pee and poop. He isn't going to yell and beat them up is he?
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You know, MuttL - I'm tired of YOU bashing US.
Granted, you are only 14. That point has been made. But you have completely ignored all of the advice given to you by several people (and so have some others who claim everyone is bashing and not helping). There's been no valid response from you about the helpful advice given. You just continue to make excuses, as do a few others. And then you post that the shock collar has been purchased. Can you see why people are frustrated with YOU?
It IS cold in Talkeetna tonight. And while you and your parents are sleeping in your nice warm beds, in your nice warm house, your dog is out in a cold kennel wearing a shock collar.
Current temperature in Talkeetna (approx. 1:20 a.m. Alaska Standard Time):
Observed at: Talkeetna, Alaska
-8 °F / -22 °C
Forecast for tonight:
Wind Chill Advisory in effect from 9 PM this evening to 10 am ADT Wednesday north of Talkeetna...
Strong wind through Wednesday night...
Tonight
Partly cloudy. Lows zero to 10 below. Northwest wind 15 to 30 mph increasing to 30 to 45 mph after midnight. Wind chill readings 30 to 50 below zero after midnight north of Talkeetna.
Unless the overall situation changes, you should not foster puppies and any legitimate rescue group would not approve you to foster puppies.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Granted, you are only 14. That point has been made. But you have completely ignored all of the advice given to you by several people (and so have some others who claim everyone is bashing and not helping). There's been no valid response from you about the helpful advice given. You just continue to make excuses, as do a few others. And then you post that the shock collar has been purchased. Can you see why people are frustrated with YOU?
It IS cold in Talkeetna tonight. And while you and your parents are sleeping in your nice warm beds, in your nice warm house, your dog is out in a cold kennel wearing a shock collar.
Current temperature in Talkeetna (approx. 1:20 a.m. Alaska Standard Time):
Observed at: Talkeetna, Alaska
-8 °F / -22 °C
Forecast for tonight:
Wind Chill Advisory in effect from 9 PM this evening to 10 am ADT Wednesday north of Talkeetna...
Strong wind through Wednesday night...
Tonight
Partly cloudy. Lows zero to 10 below. Northwest wind 15 to 30 mph increasing to 30 to 45 mph after midnight. Wind chill readings 30 to 50 below zero after midnight north of Talkeetna.
Unless the overall situation changes, you should not foster puppies and any legitimate rescue group would not approve you to foster puppies.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
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I'm new here, but I thought I'd put my two cents in.
I agree with the others in that re-homing is the best option if extra time and effort cannot be given to the dog. I can only imagine how much more difficult things will be when the OP will begin to foster puppies. One puppy is enough to reduce some dog owners to tears -- what more a whole litter? The poor dog will probably get even less attention and mental stimulation than he is currently receiving. To the OP, please reconsider fostering puppies. It's going to be a lot more work than you expect, and you're having a hard enough time with your one dog as it is.
Shocking a dog whenever he barks is not a way to train it to keep quiet. In fact, shock collars are not often used for punishment (and, if they are, only as a last resort and always under the guidance of a good professional trainer) but as a means to re-direct the dog's attention during proofing. Even then, the zap should never be too strong for the dog in that it will whine or yelp, but it should feel more like a tickle. What the OP is doing is a typical example of misusing the shock collar. Have you tested the collar on yourself first? Not only may this "method" cause the dog problems, but it's a band-aid way of dealing with the issue. Even if it does stop his barking, his lack of stimulation and interaction will exhibit itself in other ways, such as through digging in the yard or chewing on objects. In addition, corrections are to be done at a maximum of 2-3 times. Needing to correct a dog more than thrice means that the method isn't working, and if you keep insisting on correcting the dog again and again for the same behavior, you are just nagging/abusing the dog.
It would have been better to spend money on a behaviorist. If the shock collar doesn't work or if other problems start to crop up, you'll end up needing to go the behaviorist route anyway.
I agree with the others in that re-homing is the best option if extra time and effort cannot be given to the dog. I can only imagine how much more difficult things will be when the OP will begin to foster puppies. One puppy is enough to reduce some dog owners to tears -- what more a whole litter? The poor dog will probably get even less attention and mental stimulation than he is currently receiving. To the OP, please reconsider fostering puppies. It's going to be a lot more work than you expect, and you're having a hard enough time with your one dog as it is.
Shocking a dog whenever he barks is not a way to train it to keep quiet. In fact, shock collars are not often used for punishment (and, if they are, only as a last resort and always under the guidance of a good professional trainer) but as a means to re-direct the dog's attention during proofing. Even then, the zap should never be too strong for the dog in that it will whine or yelp, but it should feel more like a tickle. What the OP is doing is a typical example of misusing the shock collar. Have you tested the collar on yourself first? Not only may this "method" cause the dog problems, but it's a band-aid way of dealing with the issue. Even if it does stop his barking, his lack of stimulation and interaction will exhibit itself in other ways, such as through digging in the yard or chewing on objects. In addition, corrections are to be done at a maximum of 2-3 times. Needing to correct a dog more than thrice means that the method isn't working, and if you keep insisting on correcting the dog again and again for the same behavior, you are just nagging/abusing the dog.
It would have been better to spend money on a behaviorist. If the shock collar doesn't work or if other problems start to crop up, you'll end up needing to go the behaviorist route anyway.
:yikes:
"Not that cold?" Holy crap! Last night in my bedroom, it was about 50 F. Lyric sleeps on my bed. I covered him with a wool blanket because I thought it was too cold for him. He has less hair than a Lab and that much cold makes him shiver. The Chi's were buried under blankets. I can't believe I worry about 50F. I can't imagine leaving a dog out in that sub freezing temp.....any dog. I can't imagine insisting on keeping a dog in those conditions and not finding him a home where he can be warm. That's just selfish, flat out. Domestic dogs are not designed to stay out in that kind of weather. This should be reported. I feel like we've been BASHED to have to be so upset about this treatment of an animal. I feel bashed and sick.
"Not that cold?" Holy crap! Last night in my bedroom, it was about 50 F. Lyric sleeps on my bed. I covered him with a wool blanket because I thought it was too cold for him. He has less hair than a Lab and that much cold makes him shiver. The Chi's were buried under blankets. I can't believe I worry about 50F. I can't imagine leaving a dog out in that sub freezing temp.....any dog. I can't imagine insisting on keeping a dog in those conditions and not finding him a home where he can be warm. That's just selfish, flat out. Domestic dogs are not designed to stay out in that kind of weather. This should be reported. I feel like we've been BASHED to have to be so upset about this treatment of an animal. I feel bashed and sick.
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Current temperature in Talkeetna (approx. 1:20 a.m. Alaska Standard Time):
Observed at: Talkeetna, Alaska
-8 °F / -22 °C
Forecast for tonight:
Wind Chill Advisory in effect from 9 PM this evening to 10 am ADT Wednesday north of Talkeetna...
Strong wind through Wednesday night...
Tonight
Partly cloudy. Lows zero to 10 below. Northwest wind 15 to 30 mph increasing to 30 to 45 mph after midnight. Wind chill readings 30 to 50 below zero after midnight north of Talkeetna.
You have gotten advice and suggestions but still continue to make excuses.
My jaw dropped when I read the part about you fostering puppies. Puppies chew, bark, whine, pee, poop, and play. If your parents can't handle or respect the needs of your current dog, how are they going to do the same for multiple puppies as well?
I mean, read the forecast. Your poor dog. I would work on your problems with Rosco definitely before bringing more dogs in!
Doberluv is an excellent trainer and is willing to offer you training advice. But you have to be willing. You have to work for it. You're going to have to put some real hard work into your dog. Sleeping in the kennel with your dog so you're present with him is one thing that will help him.
And one question you haven't answered is, Have you even proposed the idea of a crate to your parents, so he can at least be inside and not free?
If you can't handle barking, or even eating, or even taking the time to train a dog, why have one?
My jaw dropped when I read the part about you fostering puppies. Puppies chew, bark, whine, pee, poop, and play. If your parents can't handle or respect the needs of your current dog, how are they going to do the same for multiple puppies as well?
I mean, read the forecast. Your poor dog. I would work on your problems with Rosco definitely before bringing more dogs in!
Doberluv is an excellent trainer and is willing to offer you training advice. But you have to be willing. You have to work for it. You're going to have to put some real hard work into your dog. Sleeping in the kennel with your dog so you're present with him is one thing that will help him.
And one question you haven't answered is, Have you even proposed the idea of a crate to your parents, so he can at least be inside and not free?
If you can't handle barking, or even eating, or even taking the time to train a dog, why have one?
Stop being disgusted. What, some of us actually care more about the physical well being of an innocent animal than the potential for hurt human feelings? Boo hoo. This is an animal with no voice. Who is going to stand up for him if his owners won't?
This isn't jumping on a band wagon, Tessa. If you notice, people were helpful in the beginning. People continued to offer alternative suggestions to the shock collar. But I don't think any animal lover can say that this is a good situation for the poor dog. This is not a good home. He deserves better treatment, whether it's from Mutt Luv or from another family entirely.
Leaving a short-coated dog outside in temperatures like that is CRUEL. This is a labrador, not a sled dog. I don't know why this is still being argued. Factor in the beating and mouth-taping? I don't see how that can be called anything but abuse. Since when is abuse okay if it's done by the father of someone you "know" from the internet? If you saw this on TV you'd be outraged, so why is it any different here?
Don't talk to me about not understanding her situation, either. I'm 17. I've grown up with dogs and I know what it's like to have parents with different views. That doesn't excuse the way Mutt Luv is acting about this situation.
Mutt Luv, you have been given good suggestions (more than I can count) and you have rejected them all. I'm sorry, but Rosco needs someone on his side.
This isn't jumping on a band wagon, Tessa. If you notice, people were helpful in the beginning. People continued to offer alternative suggestions to the shock collar. But I don't think any animal lover can say that this is a good situation for the poor dog. This is not a good home. He deserves better treatment, whether it's from Mutt Luv or from another family entirely.
Leaving a short-coated dog outside in temperatures like that is CRUEL. This is a labrador, not a sled dog. I don't know why this is still being argued. Factor in the beating and mouth-taping? I don't see how that can be called anything but abuse. Since when is abuse okay if it's done by the father of someone you "know" from the internet? If you saw this on TV you'd be outraged, so why is it any different here?
Don't talk to me about not understanding her situation, either. I'm 17. I've grown up with dogs and I know what it's like to have parents with different views. That doesn't excuse the way Mutt Luv is acting about this situation.
Mutt Luv, you have been given good suggestions (more than I can count) and you have rejected them all. I'm sorry, but Rosco needs someone on his side.
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