Shock Collars
- Thread starter Mutt Luv
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TREAT ME KINDLY
Treat me kindly, my beloved friend,
For no heart in all the world is more
grateful for kindness than the loving
heart of me.
Do not break my spirit with a stick,
For though I should lick your hand
between blows, your patience and
understanding will more quickly
teach me the things you would
have me learn.
Speak to me often, For your voice is
the world's sweetest music, as you must
know by the fierce wagging of my tail
when your footsteps fall upon my ears.
Please take me inside when it is cold
and wet, For I am a domesticated
animal, no longer accustomed to the
bitter elements. I ask no greater glory
than the privilege of sitting at your
feet beside the hearth.
Keep my pan filled with water, for I
cannot tell you when I suffer thirst.
Feed me clean food that I may stay well,
to romp and play and do your bidding,
to walk by your side, and stand ready,
willing and able to protect you with
my life, should your life be in danger.
And, my friend, when I am very old, and
I no longer enjoy good health, hearing
and good sight, do not make heroic
efforts to keep me going.
I am not having fun. Please see that my
trusting life is taken gently. I shall
leave this earth knowing with the last
breath I drew, that my fate was always
safest in your hand.
--- By Beth Norman Harris 1968 ---
*****************************************
Treat me kindly, my beloved friend,
For no heart in all the world is more
grateful for kindness than the loving
heart of me.
Do not break my spirit with a stick,
For though I should lick your hand
between blows, your patience and
understanding will more quickly
teach me the things you would
have me learn.
Speak to me often, For your voice is
the world's sweetest music, as you must
know by the fierce wagging of my tail
when your footsteps fall upon my ears.
Please take me inside when it is cold
and wet, For I am a domesticated
animal, no longer accustomed to the
bitter elements. I ask no greater glory
than the privilege of sitting at your
feet beside the hearth.
Keep my pan filled with water, for I
cannot tell you when I suffer thirst.
Feed me clean food that I may stay well,
to romp and play and do your bidding,
to walk by your side, and stand ready,
willing and able to protect you with
my life, should your life be in danger.
And, my friend, when I am very old, and
I no longer enjoy good health, hearing
and good sight, do not make heroic
efforts to keep me going.
I am not having fun. Please see that my
trusting life is taken gently. I shall
leave this earth knowing with the last
breath I drew, that my fate was always
safest in your hand.
--- By Beth Norman Harris 1968 ---
*****************************************
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Back on PAGE 2, I gave the following recommendations:
"A shock collar won't solve your problem. Maybe your dog would learn not to bark in order to avoid the shock. But those collars have to be put on snugly in order to maintain contact and work. He will probably develop sores from the metal contacts against his neck for hours on end. He will probably substitute another behavior - digging, pulling at the kennel fencing, chewing on the dog house, or chewing huge holes in himself - once he's being shocked for barking.
What this dog needs is human contact, and it doesn't sound like your parents are human enough to allow it. I know you don't have much choice because you're a minor and you're living in your parent's home. But please think of what your dog is being put through. No animal deserves that kind of treatment.
I don't know what's available in your area (I think you said Talkeetna). You say you're doing agility and rally and junior showmanship with him - do you have a training club there who might help educate your parents as to how to handle the situation better? You may try to address this with your parents in a different way. You said they're saying that the dog has to sleep outside because that's where he belongs and all the dogs slept there. But if you put it to them that this dog is different because you are working with him in dog sport activities and that he is going to be much better trained overall than the typical dog, it may help sway them. Tell them that having this dog gives you activities that keep you out of "bad" things like drugs and alcohol. Maybe research on the web about how activities for teenagers decrease the likelihood of getting into bad things and then print off these articles and statistics so that you can show them. Look at the cost of a shock collar as opposed to an airline kennel or crate and show them that it would be cheaper to have the dog sleep in your room in a crate. Tell them it also helps build a better bond with the dog so that you can be more successful in your training.
To me, the solution is simple. Bring the dog in, teach him to sleep quietly in a crate in your room and he will no longer have a reason to bark. Since there is no way you are going to stop the sled dog team from barking and howling, and your dog is (naturally) going to respond, then the logical and intelligent thing to do is to bring the dog in to avoid the problem. "
Others gave suggestions too. You can't say we didn't try to HELP - but the poster took NONE of the advice and just made excuses. Yes, she's a child dealing with parents who sound quite unreasonable. But she could have done some research and at least attempted to present documentation as to why other methods would be better. It sure doesn't appear she's even tried.
The kid wants to keep her dog no matter how badly the dog is treated. That has put people into an uproar because most of us are concerned for the DOG. If we all sat back and said "ohhh, she's just 14, the dog will just have to suffer so this girl can have it" then we would NOT be dog lovers ourselves.
I sympathize with her situation but from where I sit she has not tried very hard to rectify the problem. I don't think she even wanted advice .. she wanted attention. If she'd wanted advice she'd have at least considered and tried some of the advice given.
And the poor dog still sits out in the cold every night and now gets shocked if he barks at all. Yep, great solution.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
--- Talkeetna weather tonight:
Strong wind this evening through early Tuesday morning...
Mostly clear. Lows zero to 10 below. North wind 5 to 15 mph except northeast 15 to 20 mph toward the park. Wind chill readings 15 below to 30 below zero after midnight toward the park.
"A shock collar won't solve your problem. Maybe your dog would learn not to bark in order to avoid the shock. But those collars have to be put on snugly in order to maintain contact and work. He will probably develop sores from the metal contacts against his neck for hours on end. He will probably substitute another behavior - digging, pulling at the kennel fencing, chewing on the dog house, or chewing huge holes in himself - once he's being shocked for barking.
What this dog needs is human contact, and it doesn't sound like your parents are human enough to allow it. I know you don't have much choice because you're a minor and you're living in your parent's home. But please think of what your dog is being put through. No animal deserves that kind of treatment.
I don't know what's available in your area (I think you said Talkeetna). You say you're doing agility and rally and junior showmanship with him - do you have a training club there who might help educate your parents as to how to handle the situation better? You may try to address this with your parents in a different way. You said they're saying that the dog has to sleep outside because that's where he belongs and all the dogs slept there. But if you put it to them that this dog is different because you are working with him in dog sport activities and that he is going to be much better trained overall than the typical dog, it may help sway them. Tell them that having this dog gives you activities that keep you out of "bad" things like drugs and alcohol. Maybe research on the web about how activities for teenagers decrease the likelihood of getting into bad things and then print off these articles and statistics so that you can show them. Look at the cost of a shock collar as opposed to an airline kennel or crate and show them that it would be cheaper to have the dog sleep in your room in a crate. Tell them it also helps build a better bond with the dog so that you can be more successful in your training.
To me, the solution is simple. Bring the dog in, teach him to sleep quietly in a crate in your room and he will no longer have a reason to bark. Since there is no way you are going to stop the sled dog team from barking and howling, and your dog is (naturally) going to respond, then the logical and intelligent thing to do is to bring the dog in to avoid the problem. "
Others gave suggestions too. You can't say we didn't try to HELP - but the poster took NONE of the advice and just made excuses. Yes, she's a child dealing with parents who sound quite unreasonable. But she could have done some research and at least attempted to present documentation as to why other methods would be better. It sure doesn't appear she's even tried.
The kid wants to keep her dog no matter how badly the dog is treated. That has put people into an uproar because most of us are concerned for the DOG. If we all sat back and said "ohhh, she's just 14, the dog will just have to suffer so this girl can have it" then we would NOT be dog lovers ourselves.
I sympathize with her situation but from where I sit she has not tried very hard to rectify the problem. I don't think she even wanted advice .. she wanted attention. If she'd wanted advice she'd have at least considered and tried some of the advice given.
And the poor dog still sits out in the cold every night and now gets shocked if he barks at all. Yep, great solution.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
--- Talkeetna weather tonight:
Strong wind this evening through early Tuesday morning...
Mostly clear. Lows zero to 10 below. North wind 5 to 15 mph except northeast 15 to 20 mph toward the park. Wind chill readings 15 below to 30 below zero after midnight toward the park.
Dogs will bark under these circumstances. There is no humane way around it if the dog can not sleep inside, at least in a crate. There is no way to train the dog humanely unless someone sleeps outside with him all night and actively works the problem with reinforcement for quietness. Even then, it would be very difficult because a dog's nature is to bark to alert his family or "pack" to perceived danger. It is a dog's nature to bark to call out for help when he is suffering. The dog is going to bark. He's miserable out there. He's a dog. Dogs bark. If people can't handle a dog humanely, can not solve their problems humanely, then they should not have a dog.
Harsh words or beatings? Strong wake-up messages or torture? Telling someone that their dog is being abused and should be re-homed... or continued electric shock, beatings and taping the dog's muzzle closed so he can't drink, pant and which causes extreme anxiety?
It's interesting to learn where peoples' priorities lie and who here are dog lovers and who have dogs for some other reason. Good to know.
Harsh words or beatings? Strong wake-up messages or torture? Telling someone that their dog is being abused and should be re-homed... or continued electric shock, beatings and taping the dog's muzzle closed so he can't drink, pant and which causes extreme anxiety?
It's interesting to learn where peoples' priorities lie and who here are dog lovers and who have dogs for some other reason. Good to know.
Doberluv and Melanie,
Yes, I know. I see it too, I really do. But do you not see any similarities to Spirit's case here? She received some harsh treatment but kept coming back, kept trying. Maybe because amongst the critisicism she was thrown a rope here and there. I think the Chazzers who struck out for Spirit have a lot to be proud of there.
It might very well be too late now but we are here for love of dogs aren't we? The OP has gotten a couple of fairly sharp smacks in the kisser already. She may decide that the water is too hot here or if she really loves that dog, she might decide that there is a lot of information, support and advice that she can get right here and brave wading back in again. I hope she does.
I only wish I had some specific advice to offer Matt Luv. If for the moment Rosco can not be brought in, if for the moment it is imperative that he be encouraged not to bark (so daddy doesn't whale on him), if we want to stop this poor dog from not only being left out in the cold, being terrified of The Man coming in and beating him for no good reason, if this girl is willing to try anything BUT rehoming him ...
Is there no other advice? Radio in the kennel, heater in the kennel, light in the kennel, sound insulation so he doesn't hear the sledders? I don't know and am grasping at straws, but surely we have something esle to offer and teach than re-home and let your daddy's animal abuse win?
Yes, I know. I see it too, I really do. But do you not see any similarities to Spirit's case here? She received some harsh treatment but kept coming back, kept trying. Maybe because amongst the critisicism she was thrown a rope here and there. I think the Chazzers who struck out for Spirit have a lot to be proud of there.
It might very well be too late now but we are here for love of dogs aren't we? The OP has gotten a couple of fairly sharp smacks in the kisser already. She may decide that the water is too hot here or if she really loves that dog, she might decide that there is a lot of information, support and advice that she can get right here and brave wading back in again. I hope she does.
I only wish I had some specific advice to offer Matt Luv. If for the moment Rosco can not be brought in, if for the moment it is imperative that he be encouraged not to bark (so daddy doesn't whale on him), if we want to stop this poor dog from not only being left out in the cold, being terrified of The Man coming in and beating him for no good reason, if this girl is willing to try anything BUT rehoming him ...
Is there no other advice? Radio in the kennel, heater in the kennel, light in the kennel, sound insulation so he doesn't hear the sledders? I don't know and am grasping at straws, but surely we have something esle to offer and teach than re-home and let your daddy's animal abuse win?
Good post skyeboxer! I think MuttLuv gets that what her dad did was evil and that the dog would be best in a home that would not abuse him, but I do not think this dog will be rehomed. You can bash, or advise her that he would be better off somewhere else but that will not happen. You could then tell her that she does not care about her dog since she will not rehome him but that will also change nothing except possibly scare away the OP or make her angry and untrusting of you. So... if you would, it's fine if you say "I think the best option would be to rehome" but since that is not going to happen please don't turn this in to a, you hate your dog and are a horrible person for letting this happen thread as it will most likely get this thread closed and the OP needs to help her dog. Give her advise on to how to deal with her parents or how to train the dog the "Quiet" command without electricuting him. I in no way support what is happening to this dog, but I know he will not be rehomed so it is no help of you to tell her to do that. Please help her get her dog inside, and Muttluv try to read between the bashing because these people DO care and want to help but a dog in pain makes us mad. Please work to have your parents let the dog in for the night, have you even asked about with the crate? Even if you know he will say no try again for us and for your dog, don't whine or throw a fit about it, be prepared, explain why you think he needs to come in, how it will stop the barking and ask what good reason they have for keeping him out, there really is NO benefit. Please do not leave because we want to help you get your dog in for the night. 
barking dog
mutt luv:I am sorry to say this but the type of collar you have (remote shock) and the way you intend to use it could make the situation worse, not better. Have you ever heard of "superstitious behavior"? its where a person or animal is tempted to try it again to see if they will be punished this time. rewards should be given sparingly, but corrections must be done every time consistantly or they can lead to superstitious behavior, gamblers syndrom or whatever you call it. also you should not say ANYTHING to associate yourself with this type of correction, you don't want him to know you are involved you want him to think the BARKING is causing the pain.
the real problem is your dad, is he indian? if so you might inform him that this dog is not a sled dog and he needs to get in the 21st century, his training will progress 80 to 90% better and faster if the dog is with you all the time.
(thats why the best trained dogs are those that are allways with their handler, seeing eye dogs, police dogs etc.
is there any chance of trading the device you have for a self-contained "bark" collar? one that automatically shocks when the dog barks? did you see my ten suggestions?
I would like to know what EXACTLY is your dads objection to him being a house dog. does he have loose stool? get better quality dog foog and feed him all he wants but only once a day, at the same timeevery day. is he destructive? get a crate and gradually get him to like his crate by feeding him his meal in the crate with the door open. note: the crate should be big eneugh for him to stand, lie down and stretch out BUT NO BIGGER!
Over the years i have learned that people tend to train their dogs the way they themselves wre trained as a child, those who were punised a lot tend to believe more in punishment, and those who were spoiled tend to spoil their dogs. both methods will work because dogs are masters at figuring out how to fit into any situation, with any one. but neither method is very good.
TIP: don't give a command and then force him to do it. trick him into doing what you want and give the command when he does it. example the sit command should be given just as his butt is about to touch the floor. this way he learns the command faster and will remember it longer. good luck!
mutt luv:I am sorry to say this but the type of collar you have (remote shock) and the way you intend to use it could make the situation worse, not better. Have you ever heard of "superstitious behavior"? its where a person or animal is tempted to try it again to see if they will be punished this time. rewards should be given sparingly, but corrections must be done every time consistantly or they can lead to superstitious behavior, gamblers syndrom or whatever you call it. also you should not say ANYTHING to associate yourself with this type of correction, you don't want him to know you are involved you want him to think the BARKING is causing the pain.
the real problem is your dad, is he indian? if so you might inform him that this dog is not a sled dog and he needs to get in the 21st century, his training will progress 80 to 90% better and faster if the dog is with you all the time.
(thats why the best trained dogs are those that are allways with their handler, seeing eye dogs, police dogs etc.
is there any chance of trading the device you have for a self-contained "bark" collar? one that automatically shocks when the dog barks? did you see my ten suggestions?
I would like to know what EXACTLY is your dads objection to him being a house dog. does he have loose stool? get better quality dog foog and feed him all he wants but only once a day, at the same timeevery day. is he destructive? get a crate and gradually get him to like his crate by feeding him his meal in the crate with the door open. note: the crate should be big eneugh for him to stand, lie down and stretch out BUT NO BIGGER!
Over the years i have learned that people tend to train their dogs the way they themselves wre trained as a child, those who were punised a lot tend to believe more in punishment, and those who were spoiled tend to spoil their dogs. both methods will work because dogs are masters at figuring out how to fit into any situation, with any one. but neither method is very good.
TIP: don't give a command and then force him to do it. trick him into doing what you want and give the command when he does it. example the sit command should be given just as his butt is about to touch the floor. this way he learns the command faster and will remember it longer. good luck!
"I think the best option would be to rehome."
Your dog is a lab, right? I think I remember that from another post? He's not a husky who is bred to be out in these temperatures. I know one dog with a similar coat to a lab who is missing part of his ear from frostbite, and he was only left outside in the daytime .
Here's my hopefully helpful suggestion. Instead of actually completely rehoming the dog, is there any family or close friends nearby who could keep him for you? He could still be "your" dog for training/competing purposes, but perhaps he could live with them and be allowed indoors at night? I can't imagine keeping any dog outside in those temperatures. Instead of worrying about how to stop the dog from barking, I'd be trying to find some situation where the dog didn't need to be outside alone at night. You may need to get creative.
Your dog is a lab, right? I think I remember that from another post? He's not a husky who is bred to be out in these temperatures. I know one dog with a similar coat to a lab who is missing part of his ear from frostbite, and he was only left outside in the daytime
.Here's my hopefully helpful suggestion. Instead of actually completely rehoming the dog, is there any family or close friends nearby who could keep him for you? He could still be "your" dog for training/competing purposes, but perhaps he could live with them and be allowed indoors at night? I can't imagine keeping any dog outside in those temperatures. Instead of worrying about how to stop the dog from barking, I'd be trying to find some situation where the dog didn't need to be outside alone at night. You may need to get creative.
Yes. I am sorry, it sounds so harsh, but we are trying to do the best for the dog. I am still sticking to what I said. I may get bashed or what ever for it, bit it's sticking up for the dog.
I think I read some one said this is sorta like Spirit's situation, honestly I think these two are really different IMO. Spirit is willing to work and help Hershey.
Some of the things that Mutt Luv said, like "I am sleeping when he barks in the morning" you should get out of bed early and train him NOT to bark!
Yep. Spirit was much different. She wanted to anything in her power to change Hershey's life for the better. She even started a thread talking about if her home was really the best home for her cat, and we were encouraging her that if she followed with that wonderful determined attitude that she could change things. Two girls roughly the same age, but two totally different attitudes and situations.
I just have to say, I defy every single person on this board to find a dog that will not start barking when within hearing distance of a pack of barking dogs.
If your dad doesn't like to hear a dog barking at 7am, get some earplugs. They are sooooooooooo much cheaper than a shock collar. Or move! You live within hearing distance of a sled team, how does your one dog bother him worse than a dozen huskies?
And I'm still confused as to why the dog is allowed inside all day long, but kicked out right when most dogs seek out familiarity and warmth. Is there something about those 8 hours at night that I'm missing? It's not like the dog is a constant outside dog who is never brought it...he's always inside, except to eat or sleep. That's just wierd.
If your dad doesn't like to hear a dog barking at 7am, get some earplugs. They are sooooooooooo much cheaper than a shock collar. Or move! You live within hearing distance of a sled team, how does your one dog bother him worse than a dozen huskies?
And I'm still confused as to why the dog is allowed inside all day long, but kicked out right when most dogs seek out familiarity and warmth. Is there something about those 8 hours at night that I'm missing? It's not like the dog is a constant outside dog who is never brought it...he's always inside, except to eat or sleep. That's just wierd.
Besides those good points, Spirit's dog wasn't beaten, electrocuted, nor did he have someone wind duct tape around his mouth. It's a lot different. Spirit's folks could be persuaded to let the dog in at night provided Spirit trained the dog to be well behaved which she is doing. Spirit's folks must have had some compassion in order to go along with that. This poor OP here, unfortunately has parents who, apparently not only don't have much compassion to let the dog in at night, but have the stomach to abuse him on top of it. So, I can't compare the two situations, the two dogs or the two families in the same breath.
Zoom, I am baffled with what you're wondering about as well. Why bother with one dog when there's a whole team of barking dogs within ear shot? What's he going to do about those dogs? I hate to think. The dog can be inside all day long, must be well enough behaved and yet, at night when he's barking the most, he's put out where the odds of his barking are 100%. The barking would stop if he were inside next to his human. Methinks we're being played.
Zoom, I am baffled with what you're wondering about as well. Why bother with one dog when there's a whole team of barking dogs within ear shot? What's he going to do about those dogs? I hate to think. The dog can be inside all day long, must be well enough behaved and yet, at night when he's barking the most, he's put out where the odds of his barking are 100%. The barking would stop if he were inside next to his human. Methinks we're being played.
T
I wanted to pick out your posts and praise you for a job well done. It seems most everyone else on this thread turned it into a way to just bash and say horrible things about Mutt Luv. You gave great advice and alternatives to help her out, and even when you did sugest that it might be better to rehome, it was said in a kind way. KUDOS to you! More members should follow your example. :hail: :hail: :hail:
Well about having him inside most of the time, that is my hard work there, I just let him in and my parents have learned to live with it I guess, and if he either lays there or I'm training him he stays in, he does however get hot so then he goes out for 5mn, then back in.
My parents dont want to feed the dog inside, they think its wrong and messy and we dont feed dogs inside.
He sleeps outside cuz thats why we have the kennel and dogs sleep outside, they also say, you wont like this that only dog show people and stuff keep dogs inside, I do NOT beleive in this however.
He hasnt been barking, I have been getting up befor he starts to let him out, so thats good, we havent used it yet.
I would answer eveyones questions but there are like 2 more pages by the time I get on so I cant quote every reply and answer every question, I will tho if you want to, I just thought it would be to many posts.
My parents dont want to feed the dog inside, they think its wrong and messy and we dont feed dogs inside.
He sleeps outside cuz thats why we have the kennel and dogs sleep outside, they also say, you wont like this that only dog show people and stuff keep dogs inside, I do NOT beleive in this however.
He hasnt been barking, I have been getting up befor he starts to let him out, so thats good, we havent used it yet.
I would answer eveyones questions but there are like 2 more pages by the time I get on so I cant quote every reply and answer every question, I will tho if you want to, I just thought it would be to many posts.
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